PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[Toofy]

I think Mac showed he can be a capable NFL QB but I think he needs the circumstances around him to be near perfect for him to succeed and in the NFL that is not usually going to be the case. He also seems to let his emotions get the best of him instead of fueling him to be better the way truly great athletes do. My thing with Mac is I just don't think there is one thing he really has an advantage on over any other starting quarterback in the league. He just seems to be average to below average in every category. Granted Bill screwed him over last year and wasted a year of his development I don't really hold much hope he will be "the guy". At this point if things go the way I expect them to this year I really hope him and Bill are both gone by this time next season.

But he can most prolly keep us competitive like kirk cousins and hopefully strides into a higher ceiling. We have not given him time to ascend at all. I understand he is not otherworldly, but do we really need that or if he can give a Brock purdy level consistency on a yearly basis on a smaller contract , maybe build the team around him .

Yes, it's easier if you have a mahomes, but not sure when we will get such a player and please don't say Lamar ! We just need to invest in a mid round pick on high ceiling QB every year and hope somebody blooms . Or if we tank and get 1 on a solid QB draft year.

 

[Ross12]

FWIW, Phil Perry said on his and Tom Curran's podcast that he has spoken to several players and they are all upset about how Belichick is treating Mac for the failures of last season and they are concerned what it could mean for them.

Yeah, but Perry and others like Dan Patrick have also reported that they've spoken to several players and found many of them wanted the Pats to keep starting Zappe. So it probably depends who you ask and what story you want to run with.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Mac was drafted high, had a pretty good rookie year, and had a mediocre 2nd year amongst an injury and chaotic offensive coaching. He has shown flashes of being very good, good enough to lead a good team to a championship. Plenty of other top QB's including Josh Allen himself have had an uneven first 2 years in the league. He's done nothing to disqualify himself, and there's every reason to think he's gonna have a real good season. He's a smart kid that can make almost all the throws, and his biggest thing to work on is pocket movement when there's pressure - which by the way Brady wasn't that great at early in his career either, and can be improved.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Mac showed he can be a capable NFL QB but I think he needs the circumstances around him to be near perfect for him to succeed and in the NFL that is not usually going to be the case. He also seems to let his emotions get the best of him instead of fueling him to be better the way truly great athletes do. My thing with Mac is I just don't think there is one thing he really has an advantage on over any other starting quarterback in the league. He just seems to be average to below average in every category. Granted Bill screwed him over last year and wasted a year of his development I don't really hold much hope he will be "the guy". At this point if things go the way I expect them to this year I really hope him and Bill are both gone by this time next season.

Unfortunately, we do not know what conditions Mac needs to succeed in the NFL because he was given the worst possible conditions last year to judge him. Even in 2021, he probably had a group of weapons that would have ranked in the lower third of the league.

I don't know what Mac can be and really no one else does either. No one really knows what he needs to succeed or if he can succeed.

I am one of the biggest Jones defenders on the board and I admit I do not know if he can be a franchise QB. But I do know is that he has not been given a chance to prove he can be either. And I think Belichick is putting too much of the blame of last year on Jones and not himself.

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah, but Perry and others like Dan Patrick have also reported that they've spoken to several players and found many of them wanted the Pats to keep starting Zappe. So it probably depends who you ask and what story you want to run with.

Dan Patrick said the opposite. Patrick said the players were behind Zappe, BUT THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY WANT A QB CHANGE. Patrick has been vastly misquoted on this.



And most of the reporters I have seen said the locker room is firmly behind Mac Jones for the most part.

 

[Love The Drake]

Dan Patrick said the opposite. Patrick said the players were behind Zappe, BUT THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY WANT A QB CHANGE. Patrick has been vastly misquoted on this.



And most of the reporters I have seen said the locker room is firmly behind Mac Jones for the most part.

That was Meyers,Harris and Hoyer.

 

[Ollie]

Yeah, but Perry and others like Dan Patrick have also reported that they've spoken to several players and found many of them wanted the Pats to keep starting Zappe. So it probably depends who you ask and what story you want to run with.

I think it was worded differently, that they supported Zappe but didn't believe there should be a QB change.

 

[Bill Lee]

Like I said before, teams seeking to trade for the player have many good reasons to not leak that they're interested in the player. That's how bidding wars start, for one. If no one seems interested the price stays low. Leaks about teams being interested in a player frequently come from the team who holds the player. For instance, the story about the Pats having made an offer for Jerry Jeudy - that came from Denver, not New England.

Right, but of the suggested four teams and perhaps more, you would think at least one would not be interested in Mac for various reasons thus feel free to leak the juicy tidbit that BB was shopping Mac.

There have been confirmations to a few journalists now that there were indeed trade discussions. The difference of course comes down to if he was "shopped". Florio is insistent that Belichick was the one initiating discussions but I have not seen that substantiated elsewhere.

If the reality is there were "trade discussions" i.e. the other side asking about Mac rather than "shopping" i.e. BB asking for offers on Mac, it's a totally different story.

As I wrote earlier, I think this whole thing is either a fabrication and/or an exaggeration on the part of Florio or his source or both, which would be true if this is just about "trade discussions".

 

[Ollie]

That was Meyers,Harris and Hoyer.

you know or are guessing?

 

[Ross12]

Dan Patrick said the opposite. Patrick said the players were behind Zappe, BUT THEY DIDN'T NECESSARILY WANT A QB CHANGE. Patrick has been vastly misquoted on this.



And most of the reporters I have seen said the locker room is firmly behind Mac Jones for the most part.

Thanks, that is good context.

 

[Toofy]

Can this off-season end soon and we get to TC... Or prolly draft day will give us a good sign of things...

As an org we look supremely dysfunctional. Earlier the silences and non directional answers worked because we used to win a lot , had the goat QB and goat coach and you could diss off media as mediots based on our win record . Now the aura has faded significantly, we look like the jets with all these leaks and silence on the organization end and after the experimentation last year, the intelligence quotient of our think tank is up for scrutiny as well .

 

[203Pat]

Unfortunately, we do not know what conditions Mac needs to succeed in the NFL because he was given the worst possible conditions last year to judge him. Even in 2021, he probably had a group of weapons that would have ranked in the lower third of the league.

I don't know what Mac can be and really no one else does either. No one really knows what he needs to succeed or if he can succeed.

I am one of the biggest Jones defenders on the board and I admit I do not know if he can be a franchise QB. But I do know is that he has not been given a chance to prove he can be either. And I think Belichick is putting too much of the blame of last year on Jones and not himself.

I agree that it is too early to make a definitive statement on Mac at this point especially with Bill torching last year but I just worry that he doesn't have great physical skills but was supposed to make up for that by being fundamentally sound with a high football IQ and that doesn't always seem to be the case. I know it is hard to fairly look at his body of work last year but there were so many times last year his footwork looked terrible and he made poor throws and poor decisions. The poor on-field decisions complied with what looks to be a lack of mental toughness makes me worry that even if he could have been the guy he might be too damaged to succeed here. Maybe with a real OC, and hopefully one more real addition to the offense, Mac can make a leap and start to look like a franchise QB but with this current iteration (plus whatever rookies) of the offense is going to be what he has to work with I won't get my hopes up.

But he can most prolly keep us competitive like kirk cousins and hopefully strides into a higher ceiling. We have not given him time to ascend at all. I understand he is not otherworldly, but do we really need that or if he can give a Brock purdy level consistency on a yearly basis on a smaller contract , maybe build the team around him .

Yes, it's easier if you have a mahomes, but not sure when we will get such a player and please don't say Lamar ! We just need to invest in a mid round pick on high ceiling QB every year and hope somebody blooms . Or if we tank and get 1 on a solid QB draft year.

To me I think Kirk Cousins is Mac's ceiling at this point. Mac hasn't really lead a comeback outside of the win against a really bad Texans team in his rookie year. That Minnesota game last year he had some chances to make a play here and there to get us a win and just couldn't do it. Same thing late in the Raiders game where he could've put the game away with a first down or two and we ended up punting. I just wish Mac gave us one thing to point to where we could say "Mac does x better than most" but he really is just middle to back of the pack in everything.

 

[Love The Drake]

you know or are guessing?

Based on public quotes I am guessing.
If the Pats wanted to make a change taking out his staunch supporters would be a big step to do that.

 

[Bill Lee]

As an org we look supremely dysfunctional. Earlier the silences and non directional answers worked because we used to win a lot , had the goat QB and goat coach and you could diss off media as mediots based on our win record . Now the aura has faded significantly, we look like the jets with all these leaks and silence on the organization end and after the experimentation last year, the intelligence quotient of our think tank is up for scrutiny as well .

Based on observed behavior, if the organization would interact more with the media, do you think we'd see:
a) media acceptance of organizational statements
b) media spinning organizational statements to create even more narratives that would require even more organizational statements

Bottom line to me is that things are the same as before, there is no upside to telling anything to the media.

They're just going to spin things however they need to spin things to get clicks, and gullible fans are going to continue to lap it all up.

If this means Mac feels like he's being "hung out to dry" then yes, IMO he is too high-maintenance.

Yet I don't think Mac feels this way, he's seen it all already at Alabama already, I think it's certain fans making projections.

Bottom line is a lot of fans are pissed off about last season and are looking to lash out in any/every direction.

IMO it's best to ignore them, they are not thinking rationally.

I think our team is still acting the way the Patriots act, and it's a lot of our fan base that has gone all Jete.

 

[Toofy]

Based on observed behavior, if the organization would interact more with the media, do you think we'd see:
a) media acceptance of organizational statements
b) media spinning organizational statements to create even more narratives that would require even more organizational statements

Bottom line to me is that things are the same as before, there is no upside to telling anything to the media.

They're just going to spin things however they need to spin things to get clicks, and gullible fans are going to continue to lap it all up.

If this means Mac feels like he's being "hung out to dry" then yes, IMO he is too high-maintenance.

Yet I don't think Mac feels this way, he's seen it all already at Alabama already, I think it's certain fans making projections.

Bottom line is a lot of fans are pissed off about last season and are looking to lash out in any/every direction.

IMO it's best to ignore them, they are not thinking rationally.

I think our team is still acting the way the Patriots act, and it's a lot of our fan base that has gone all Jete.

I agree to a great extent , but last season with self inflicted wounds opens up lots of questions and this barrage of trade talk around Mac could be stopped by saying no ! But there is silence which means there is truth to it ! And a team trying to trade a first rounder after technically 1 season where he took them to the post season doesn't look good.

Mac might not be the future . But at least we need to see what we have in him . We shouldn't end up like chargers who gave up on Drew Brees . Again I am not saying Mac is drew Brees but Mac is supposed to be intelligent and we don't seem to have built a game plan to take advantage of that and see his true ceiling . This is the year to evaluate that and we are not making things easy for Mac or for the patriots .

 

[Jlaff]

I disagree. No matter what you think of Mac Jones as a QB, it hard to doubt his competitiveness. I am sure he feels he doesn't deserve to be in a competition for the starting job. But if he is (which I am still not buying), I am sure he is confident he will win it. And if he does, the competition is over at the start of the season anyway. If there is still a QB competition going on into the season, Belichick is gone next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if he wants out of New England especially after he was set up for failure last year and now paying the price because of it. I am sure he, like any QB, would want to be in an organization that supports him and does everything possible to be put in a position to succeed. He has to doubt he is ever going to get that here.

How many teams can he go to with a reasonable shot of winning the starting job? If Zappe's as bad as some of you think, seems his best shot is right here.

 

[Ollie]

Based on public quotes I am guessing.
If the Pats wanted to make a change taking out his staunch supporters would be a big step to do that.

I mean Meyers and Harris were openly close with Mac but they were also FA. The Hoyer release is confusing given his contract being guaranteed but supposedly he questioned last years coaching if rumours are to be believed

 

[Real fan 02]

I think Mac showed he can be a capable NFL QB but I think he needs the circumstances around him to be near perfect for him to succeed and in the NFL that is not usually going to be the case. He also seems to let his emotions get the best of him instead of fueling him to be better the way truly great athletes do. My thing with Mac is I just don't think there is one thing he really has an advantage on over any other starting quarterback in the league. He just seems to be average to below average in every category. Granted Bill screwed him over last year and wasted a year of his development I don't really hold much hope he will be "the guy". At this point if things go the way I expect them to this year I really hope him and Bill are both gone by this time next season.

I'd agree, and you make valid points. The leverage he has is he's on a rookie deal. Lol so that aalone is the sole reason why it is best to stick with him, hash it out for the sake of the season. OTAs are around the corner as well as the draft. This is normally where teams start to take shape.. and build cohesion.

His skill set may be average, Now Brady had near perfect circumstances earlier in his career as well. He had a dominant defense, alpha coaches on offense with wies and crennel. Brady took full advantage of everything around him mixed in with his greatness!

Mac's strengths are his mind, his accuracy and his work ethic. We saw that in 2021, 2022 was self-inflicted as we all witnessed. However if the season goes south then you may be right with both gone!

 

[Love The Drake]

I mean Meyers and Harris were openly close with Mac but they were also FA. The Hoyer release is confusing given his contract being guaranteed but supposedly he questioned last years coaching if rumours are to be believed

Meyers

Said he wished he could play with Mac his whole career.
Harris and Mac knew each other as kids.
I don’t see it being a coincidence.

 

[Love The Drake]

Meyers

Said he wished he could play with Mac his whole career.
Harris and Mac knew each other as kids.
I don’t see it being a coincidence.

Plus the Jeudy talk has gone away a lot of that is the compensation absolutely but another part of it maybe switching gears or pumping brakes on Mac being the guy.
Maybe Obrein has voiced reservations as well?