PFT: Bill "has shopped" Mac

[moosekill]

He was last year. And no matter how many times Belichick was asked, he refused to say he was the starter.

He sucked last year in large part because the offense was one of the worst offense systems and called offense in NFL history.

And as for Zappe, if want a QB who hands off the ball most of the game and passes 15-20 times a game, he is your guy. He showed last year if you create an offense where the running game does most of the work and the QB stays out of the way, he can be your guy. That is how he was successful in two of the three games he played most or all of the game. People so overrate how good Zappe was last year and how was used. And he certainly wasn't used like they used Jones. And I think Jones could be awesome as a pure game manager where he just hands off the ball and only asked to throw in certain situations. And he has shown he can be awesome when the Pats actually let him do play action under center like they did with Zappe.

And after something like 80 years of the NFL, people are catching on that how head coaches have treated QBs for decades is new age crap. The proper way to treat QBs is to put them in systems that exploit their weaknesses and minimized their strengths and refuse to call them starters.

DATE	OPP	RESULT	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	SACK	RTG	QBR
Mon 10/24	vsCHI	L 33-14	14	22	185	63.6	8.4	1	2	43	1	67.4	27.6
Sun 10/16	@CLE	W 38-15	24	34	309	70.6	9.1	2	0	53	2	118.4	61.4
Sun 10/9	vsDET	W 29-0	17	21	188	81.0	9.0	1	1	24	0	100.0	22.7
Sun 10/2	@GB	L 27-24 OT	10	15	99	66.7	6.6	1	0	25	3	107.4	12.

 

[moosekill]

Mac had 2 games last year he threw for over 300yds. In two games starting, Zappe threw for over 300 yards in one of them.
Mac had 3 games last year with a rtg of over 100. In two starts Zappe had a rating over 100 in both of the games he started.
Rob, stop making stuff up. Mac wasn't good enough last year and was outplayed by a 4th round third string rookie who was an afterthought for most of us.

 

[borg]

The guy is three years away from hitting the free agency market if the Pats keep him. He has two years left on his rookie deal and a fifth year option. If he cannot beat out Zappe, that probably means he isn't going to get $25 million a year. And if he is really far better than Zappe and still doesn't get the starting job, then Belichick should be fired and Jones getting $25 million a year from this team is the least of our concerns.

Mac is 17 games away from having his 5th year option determined by Herr Hoodie.
Year 3 is sink or swim time.
Without the option picked up, his Patriots future becomes bleak and his path to long term riches becomes more treacherous.
He knows this
His agent knows this
And no doubt he and his camp are livid about Belichick's malpractice last season that directly affected Mac's growth curve and how the league perceives him

 

[RIpats88]

At the end of the day, was Mac great last year? No. But you can't look at things in a vacuum. It's like the crowd who wants to dump mac don't want to address the elephant in the room which is Patricia and Judge we're putrid. How can we ignore the herald article. No gameplan were in place. Guys like Bourne benched because they dare speak up...no adjustments in team meetings..

Had Mac performed this way with McDaniels or ANY actual OC I would be fully in on teams trade Mac.

But knowing what we know now no reasonable person can really gauge anyone on this team. It's why the only logical way forward is to see how he performs with O'Brien who will run an actual NFL offense.

It's like having a bad boss and no training and then blaming the employee when the work isn't done right. When that employee did decent when they had a good boss/training.

Last years debacle is on Bill and his decisions.

 

[catent]

Belichick doesn't deserve a benefit of a doubt anymore for more than the Patricia fiasco last year. The free agency haul of 2021 looks pretty bad now with both Smith and Agholor gone for production reasons and Bourne being virtually benched for most of the season. Add that Mills was briefly cut and moved to a new position. At this point, only Judon is a really good pick up despite all the money spent.

And if Mac Jones is seriously in position to potentially lose his job to Bailey Zappe, that is another reason to doubt Belichick. This is a guy who was the 15th overall pick and a serious rookie of the year contender only to be benched in year three. That is as much on Belichick as Jones.

And if Belichick doesn't make the playoff this upcoming season, he is pretty much gone. It is clear Belichick isn't the same Belichick of the past.
Belichick is smart enough to know that the Patricia thing was a stupid idea when Brian Hoyer had to teach him the offense. He should have done something when he had to dumb down the offense because Patricia and Judges couldn't grasp it. And he should have done something drastic when the offense was a horror show in the preseason. He did nothing and seems to be upset that the players were upset that they were set up to fail.

And the "Belichick is doing everything to set Jones up to fail" is a figure of speech. I don't think he is purposely trying to set up Jones to fail. But his incredibly momentous blunders put Jones in the worst possible position from implemented an offense easy enough for Patricia to run (but not really) that minimized Jones' strengths and exploited his weaknesses (and for many of the skill players) for the OC.

Belichick is far from perfect and he made a series of significant errors last season, but the binary way in which you see this situation is pretty ridiculous.

You’re incapable of critiquing Mac Jones and thus offload all the responsibility for the offensive performance last season (and Jones’ suboptimal play) onto anyone but Jones (including Belichick).

You’re basically tossing Belichick under the bus to cover for Jones, which is pretty insane to think about. Both deserve ample critique for their performance and decisions last season, yes.

If I was starting a team going forward, would I rather have Belichick without Mac Jones, or Mac Jones without Belichick? I’d go with the former without a moment of hesitation. It’s hard to believe anyone would pick otherwise, but here we are.

 

[mgteich]

Mac is 17 games away from having his 5th year option determined by Herr Hoodie.
Year 3 is sink or swim time.
Without the option picked up, his Patriots future becomes bleak and his path to long term riches becomes more treacherous.
He knows this
His agent knows this

and understands that he is better off elsewhere, where he will be given a fresh opportunity.

 

[n1997y]

My feeling is... Mac doesn't want to compete. He's a 3rd year QB who needs his option picked up or an extension next offseason. He wants to be in a position to showcase his skillset this year. He can't do that if he's in a competition with Zappe and isn't sure he'll win that competition. So he perhaps also wants to be sent elsewhere where he can be named the starter outright and have more certainty about his future.

I could absolutely be wrong here but that is just my gut feeling with how these rumors and stories have read to me.

I agree. Mac wants to showcase his skills for that future big contract. Mac doesn’t want to compete for the starting job. That would be a distraction. He wants it to be handed to him because he feels he’s already earned it by working hard in the past. So he’s worrying about the future and the past and missing the point in the present.

What he needs to realize that the skills that will be rewarded are grit, overcoming adversity, winning whatever competition is in front of him. He needs to compete with Bailey Zappe and blow him away, or he’s not worthy of that big contract. If he’s so emotionally fragile that he lets his feelings get so hurt over not being named starter that he can’t beat out BZ for the starting job he should be traded.

 

[mgteich]

he should be traded.

better for him

However, what will Bill get.

He will acquire a vet to backup Zappe or who whoever else he acquires.

 

[Bill Lee]

I never said he needs to be coddled. Don't put words into my mouth. I said he doesn't need to be hung out to dry. Saying Mac is his QB isn't coddling Jones. Refusing to say he is the starter all last year no matter how many times asked and allowing the QB controversy to fester is hanging him out to dry in a season where Belichick literally destroyed the offense.

A team with a literally destroyed offense scored 30 offensive touchdowns? C'mon, man, calm down on the rhetoric.

If you think a QB is coddled by putting in a position to succeed by creating an offense that will play to his strengths and minimize his weaknesses and actually saying he is the starter going forward when he is the starter going forward, then I absolutely agree that a QB should be coddled.

A team that has to agree to name a guy a starter to get him to perform is coddling him, IMO.

 

[Jim Beankie]

DATE	OPP	RESULT	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	SACK	RTG	QBR
Mon 10/24	vsCHI	L 33-14	14	22	185	63.6	8.4	1	2	43	1	67.4	27.6
Sun 10/16	@CLE	W 38-15	24	34	309	70.6	9.1	2	0	53	2	118.4	61.4
Sun 10/9	vsDET	W 29-0	17	21	188	81.0	9.0	1	1	24	0	100.0	22.7
Sun 10/2	@GB	L 27-24 OT	10	15	99	66.7	6.6	1	0	25	3	107.4	12.

Cleveland destroyed Burrow and the Bengals 2 weeks after the Pats game, so it's not like they were a terrrible team at the time. Sure Ja'marr wasn't there, but "let's trade everyone and pay top dollar for WR1" Tee Higgins (3rec / 49yds / 1TD in garbage time) played and should've dominated but stunk.

 

[ralmat55]

I have no proof but personally I think that is really whats happening.

Maybe Bill felt Mac got a bit too big for his britches and a little entitled?

Bill Beli-crite. can definitely teach Mac a thing or two about feeling entitled -“25 years” etc.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bill Beli-crite. can definitely teach Mac a thing or two about feeling entitled -“25 years” etc.

Thats BS.

 

[Bill Lee]

and understands that he is better off elsewhere, where he will be given a fresh opportunity.

I think if this was Mac's agent leaking so he gets traded, we'd have this report leaked to multiple high-level media sources and those media sources would be willing to characterize the source as a "league insider", the code words for agent. One source not willing to actually name teams being talked to (the list came from Florio himself) and without characterization suggests to me this is not the agent. Leaking to multiple sources with credible characterizations would really put the heat on the Pats to move him. Then, of course, Mac and/or his agent could just openly demand a trade, that would pretty much guarantee him a "fresh opportunity".

There are a lot of places where Mac would not be better off now that the coaching situation has been improved, and he and his agent know that.

 

[Ross12]

I agree. Mac wants to showcase his skills for that future big contract. Mac doesn’t want to compete for the starting job. That would be a distraction. He wants it to be handed to him because he feels he’s already earned it by working hard in the past. So he’s worrying about the future and the past and missing the point in the present.

What he needs to realize that the skills that will be rewarded are grit, overcoming adversity, winning whatever competition is in front of him. He needs to compete with Bailey Zappe and blow him away, or he’s not worthy of that big contract. If he’s so emotionally fragile that he lets his feelings get so hurt over not being named starter that he can’t beat out BZ for the starting job he should be traded.

Those are the things that New England would reward. I am guessing other teams would hand him a big contract regardless of grit, etc. See kinda good QB, give big money. Look at Daniel Jones, Kyler Murray, Jared Goff and others for recent examples.

I am guessing he also wants to build his own brand and it's hard to do that when he can't even be named the starting QB after 2 years. He's a likeable kid, I think he probably feels he has some marketing power he could tap into for commercials and other stuff. He wants to get there.

Again, this is just my opinion. I could be way off base and I'd prefer to be.

 

[Kasmir]

Astonishing to hear the trolls here grunting as they decide whether they'd rather crap on Mac or on BB. I guess it's an embarrassment of fecal riches, as apparently there's plenty to go around for both Mac and BB with lots left over to spread on the rest of the team. Don't gotta love our trolls.

 

[Ross12]

Cleveland destroyed Burrow and the Bengals 2 weeks after the Pats game, so it's not like they were a terrrible team at the time. Sure Ja'marr wasn't there, but "let's trade everyone and pay top dollar for WR1" Tee Higgins (3rec / 49yds / 1TD in garbage time) played and should've dominated but stunk.

The Lions also turned out to be a very solid playoff-caliber team, but they weren't playing their best ball at the time.

 

[Rob0729]

Your aren't making sense to me.

If it really was a "what have you done for me lately" league, and if BB's results have been unsatisfactory since 2018, and if the MP screw up was equivalent to a year of "tanking", and if BB's free agency spending was so poor, and if RKK is so on-top of how his team is being run, why hasn't RKK already replaced BB?

Seems to me your rhetoric is not matching reality.

From the sound of it, it seems that Belichick has been given the benefit of the doubt to this point because of his past. But Kraft was not happy about Patricia being OC and said as much before the season last year. So Belichick looks to be out of get of jail free cards based on his Super Bowl success.

And putting Patricia at OC was the equivalent of tanking. This team could have made the playoffs and possibly won a game or two if they had the 2021 offense. But Patricia doomed this team to being a sub .500 team. Did you watch last year. There are plenty of analysts out there who broke down

DATE	OPP	RESULT	CMP	ATT	YDS	CMP%	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	SACK	RTG	QBR
Mon 10/24	vsCHI	L 33-14	14	22	185	63.6	8.4	1	2	43	1	67.4	27.6
Sun 10/16	@CLE	W 38-15	24	34	309	70.6	9.1	2	0	53	2	118.4	61.4
Sun 10/9	vsDET	W 29-0	17	21	188	81.0	9.0	1	1	24	0	100.0	22.7
Sun 10/2	@GB	L 27-24 OT	10	15	99	66.7	6.6	1	0	25	3	107.4	12.

Ummm... Other than the Browns' game, what did I get wrong?

 

[captain stone]

This post epitomizes everything I think I've tried to say at various points but you've put it far more eloquently. Excellent post.

Doesn't have to be all one way or all the other way either.

 

[TomPatriot]

From the sound of it, it seems that Belichick has been given the benefit of the doubt to this point because of his past. But Kraft was not happy about Patricia being OC and said as much before the season last year. So Belichick looks to be out of get of jail free cards based on his Super Bowl success.

And putting Patricia at OC was the equivalent of tanking. This team could have made the playoffs and possibly won a game or two if they had the 2021 offense. But Patricia doomed this team to being a sub .500 team. Did you watch last year. There are plenty of analysts out there who broke down


Ummm... Other than the Browns' game, what did I get wrong?

That Mac pouted and cried and threw things? I totally blame Bill for the lack of an OC and agree it hurt Mac’s performance and may have stilted his career, but Mac doesn’t get off free. He needed to man up and he didn’t always do that.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick is far from perfect and he made a series of significant errors last season, but the binary way in which you see this situation is pretty ridiculous.

You’re incapable of critiquing Mac Jones and thus offload all the responsibility for the offensive performance last season (and Jones’ suboptimal play) onto anyone but Jones (including Belichick).

You’re basically tossing Belichick under the bus to cover for Jones, which is pretty insane to think about. Both deserve ample critique for their performance and decisions last season, yes.

If I was starting a team going forward, would I rather have Belichick without Mac Jones, or Mac Jones without Belichick? I’d go with the former without a moment of hesitation. It’s hard to believe anyone would pick otherwise, but here we are.

Huh?!? So are you saying it was Mac Jones' fault that Belichick hired Matt Patricia as OC? I am not throwing Belichick under the bus. He is the one most responsible for last year's offensive disaster. Not Jones. Not Patricia. Not Judge. Belichick. Belichick is the one who created the disaster clearly against the owner's wishes. And he owns the fall out. Kraft said as much before the season last year. He said Belichick earned the right to make the decision, but if it fails, he owns the disaster.

At this point, probably Mac without Belichick. Not that I am sold that Jones is going to be a franchise QB, but that I feel that Belichick is no longer the guy he was 20 years ago and the game is passing him by. Belichick seems to refuse to accept a lot of the trends of recent years that it is a pass happy league and WRs are far more important than they used to be and you need a dynamic offense with weapons to win consistently in this league. Even the best teams are still giving up 28-30+ points on a consistent basis.

Of the top 10 teams in points allowed, only five made it to the playoffs. And the one that made it to the Super Bowl was the 8th best in points allowed (Philly). Meanwhile, nine of the top ten offenses in points scored made it to the playoffs with the #1 team winning it and the #3 team playing them in the Super Bowl.

Yet, Belichick seems content to win with more of a ball control offense and winning on defense.

I was always an "In Bill We Trust" guy, but I don't think he is any longer the great coach he used to be. So I would rather take my chances with Jones and a head coach and GM who understand today's game and what it takes to win than Belichick. Belichick of five years ago, I would take over Jones in a heartbeat.