NFL GAME DAY DISCUSSION Official 2023 Free Agency Thread

[Ross12]

It looks like I was a little heavy-handed with my estimates on cap figures earlier in the thread (which was by design - rather overestimate than under), here's the latest estimate for Miguel:



Safe to guess these guys combine for at least $4M in cap so more likely the team is around $13M in space.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

Yes. Your posts sure are... Off to oblivion with you.

Oblivion hmm...

Much like your takes on Matty P last year.

How did that offense work out again?

You still didn't answer why my take on Thornton not being the answer is crazy. Can you honestly look at the guy and see a #1?

 

[zimmy]

Looking at the roster, it feels like we still need the following - either through free agency or the draft. There are others areas we can still upgrade but this is where I see starting holes or a lack of depth.

1. two cornerbacks. A real lack of depth behind the Jones. Think one veteran and a draft pick.
2. Another edge defender. We are lacking a bit behind Judson and Uche, and Uche isn’t really a full time player. Maybe Jennings and Perkins can step up but I could see someone added here.
3. A quality back up interior lineman. Unless Russey/Hines are developing into something we need to find a capable guy who can cover these spots
4. 3rd Tight End. Really needs to be a plus blocker.
5. Free safety. It might be that Dugger could do this but not sure it’s best use of his skill set. Maybe they think Bryant can do it.
6. depending on how they feel about Montgomery, a passing back still feels like a hole.

unless we’re planning to cut or trade Parker or Bourne we only really have room for one more receiver on the 53. Similarly, we all think we’ll draft an OT but we aren’t keeping 5 so one of Brown, Reiff, McDermott, and Anderson is likely gone if we take an OT high. If we go OT in the first round wouldn’t be stunned to see Brown shown the door.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Oblivion hmm...

Much like your takes on Matty P last year.

How did that offense work out again?

You still didn't answer why my take on Thornton not being the answer is crazy. Can you honestly look at the guy and see a #1?

second rd. pick, 13 games, 22 receptions

but people here don't want to use a high pick on jeudy who managed close to 1000 yards under a new HC, QB etc. in an offense which was at least as bad as our offense if not worse
they use as an argument that jeudy did not show that he can be a number 1 but under these circumstances no one can show his true potential.

(I like Thornton and i am certain he will be much better in year 2, but these measuring all the pats moves with other standards than other teams is nonsense)

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

second rd. pick, 13 games, 22 receptions

but people here don't want to use a high pick on jeudy who managed close to 1000 yards under a new HC, QB etc. in an offense which was at least as bad as our offense if not worse
they use as an argument that jeudy did not show that he can be a number 1 but under these circumstances no one can show his true potential.

(I like Thornton and i am certain he will be much better in year 2, but these measuring all the pats moves with other standards than other teams is nonsense)

He was also a slight reach. Never said the guy sucks but he needs to put on size. That doesn't mean you neglect getting a #1 in hopes that Thornton can be a downfield threat.

Jeudy was also more highly touted and his tools are there. He just had no one throwing him the ball. Last years version of Russ was not even replacement worthy.

 

[Sicilian]

Looking at the roster, it feels like we still need the following - either through free agency or the draft. There are others areas we can still upgrade but this is where I see starting holes or a lack of depth.

1. two cornerbacks. A real lack of depth behind the Jones. Think one veteran and a draft pick.
2. Another edge defender. We are lacking a bit behind Judson and Uche, and Uche isn’t really a full time player. Maybe Jennings and Perkins can step up but I could see someone added here.
3. A quality back up interior lineman. Unless Russey/Hines are developing into something we need to find a capable guy who can cover these spots
4. 3rd Tight End. Really needs to be a plus blocker.
5. Free safety. It might be that Dugger could do this but not sure it’s best use of his skill set. Maybe they think Bryant can do it.
6. depending on how they feel about Montgomery, a passing back still feels like a hole.

unless we’re planning to cut or trade Parker or Bourne we only really have room for one more receiver on the 53. Similarly, we all think we’ll draft an OT but we aren’t keeping 5 so one of Brown, Reiff, McDermott, and Anderson is likely gone if we take an OT high. If we go OT in the first round wouldn’t be stunned to see Brown shown the door.

On #6, I think the hope is that Strong grows into that role, much like Vereen and White did after having almost no role on the team their rookie year. If he doesn't, whoever wins out between Robinson and Montgomery will be the guy. They're not overwhelming choices, but I think that's a better route for 2023 than spending more assets. Give Strong a chance to win the job, and if he can't this year then you re-evaluate the position in 2024. Robinson/Montgomery should be able to bridge you to that if need be.

 

[Real fan 02]

Looking at the roster, it feels like we still need the following - either through free agency or the draft. There are others areas we can still upgrade but this is where I see starting holes or a lack of depth.

1. two cornerbacks. A real lack of depth behind the Jones. Think one veteran and a draft pick.
2. Another edge defender. We are lacking a bit behind Judson and Uche, and Uche isn’t really a full time player. Maybe Jennings and Perkins can step up but I could see someone added here.
3. A quality back up interior lineman. Unless Russey/Hines are developing into something we need to find a capable guy who can cover these spots
4. 3rd Tight End. Really needs to be a plus blocker.
5. Free safety. It might be that Dugger could do this but not sure it’s best use of his skill set. Maybe they think Bryant can do it.
6. depending on how they feel about Montgomery, a passing back still feels like a hole.

unless we’re planning to cut or trade Parker or Bourne we only really have room for one more receiver on the 53. Similarly, we all think we’ll draft an OT but we aren’t keeping 5 so one of Brown, Reiff, McDermott, and Anderson is likely gone if we take an OT high. If we go OT in the first round wouldn’t be stunned to see Brown shown the door.

Great post, another question I'm asking is.. are we going to finally be able to check TEs.. ? Who can we put on TEs.. our safeties are 5"11.. that was a weak spot defensely for a while now.. I'd like to see uche as a 3 down player this season..

Your absolutely right we need depth.. i know we have the draft and all.. but however of those drafted players will actually be contributing and impactful..

 

[Sicilian]

Great post, another question I'm asking is.. are we going to finally be able to check TEs.. ? Who can we put on TEs.. our safeties are 5"11.. that was a weak spot defensely for a while now.. I'd like to see uche as a 3 down player this season..

Your absolutely right we need depth.. i know we have the draft and all.. but however of those drafted players will actually be contributing and impactful..

On tight ends, I don't think that was really a problem last year. Only 5 times out of 17 games did they allow 40+ yards to a TE in a game:

Mark Andrews 8rec/89yds/2tds
Njoku 3/58
Conklin 6/79/2 (2nd game had 2/15, so they adjusted)
Hockenson 5/43/1 with the Vikings (but had next to nothing in the first meeting when he was with the Lions)
Waller 3/48/1

Other than Conklin in one of the Jets games having a day, there's Mark Andrews who does that to a LOT of teams, and then a lot of low catch or low yard efforts, including two minimal impact games from our new guy Gesicki.

It remains to be seen how much this changes without McCourty (other safeties may have to take more deep responsibilities, which pulls them from TE matchups), but in general it hasn't been the TE's that killed them recently, other than specific games.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Great post, another question I'm asking is.. are we going to finally be able to check TEs.. ? Who can we put on TEs.. our safeties are 5"11.. that was a weak spot defensely for a while now.. I'd like to see uche as a 3 down player this season..

Your absolutely right we need depth.. i know we have the draft and all.. but however of those drafted players will actually be contributing and impactful..

Dugger shrunk two inches?

Average Height and Weight of NFL Safeties in 2023

I've been a collegiate sports performance coach for 20 years. One thing I always felt was effective was showing guys the heights and weights of players at their position in the NFL. It helped give

hortonbarbell.com

Average safety height is only 6’0”.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

On tight ends, I don't think that was really a problem last year. Only 5 times out of 17 games did they allow 40+ yards to a TE in a game:

Mark Andrews 8rec/89yds/2tds
Njoku 3/58
Conklin 6/79/2 (2nd game had 2/15, so they adjusted)
Hockenson 5/43/1 with the Vikings (but had next to nothing in the first meeting when he was with the Lions)
Waller 3/48/1

Other than Conklin in one of the Jets games having a day, there's Mark Andrews who does that to a LOT of teams, and then a lot of low catch or low yard efforts, including two minimal impact games from our new guy Gesicki.

It remains to be seen how much this changes without McCourty (other safeties may have to take more deep responsibilities, which pulls them from TE matchups), but in general it hasn't been the TE's that killed them recently, other than specific games.

I never looked at last year and saw a team that couldn't stop TEs. There were a few games that could have went either way and the defense was a major part of that. McCourty was still solid but the defense needs to continue to get younger.

The reason why this team stalled out so much last year was because of a 1950s style offense. Run screen run punt.

 

[Fatmancryin]

second rd. pick, 13 games, 22 receptions

but people here don't want to use a high pick on jeudy who managed close to 1000 yards under a new HC, QB etc. in an offense which was at least as bad as our offense if not worse
they use as an argument that jeudy did not show that he can be a number 1 but under these circumstances no one can show his true potential.

(I like Thornton and i am certain he will be much better in year 2, but these measuring all the pats moves with other standards than other teams is nonsense)

I would give a 2nd in a heartbeat for Juedy and would consider next years 1st.

That’s not how BIll works though. If he doesn’t see value at his price he’s not interested.

I would not trade a 2nd or a 1st with D-hop even with a restructure.

 

[Give Kraft A Hand]

I would give a 2nd in a heartbeat for Juedy and would consider next years 1st.

That’s not how BIll works though. If he doesn’t see value at his price he’s not interested.

I would not trade a 2nd or a 1st with D-hop even with a restructure.

I wouldn't give up any future 1sts. That division is going to be very difficult. Even with Jeudy or DHop its going to be tough. What this team needs is high end talent. Judon is high end but I can't really think of anyone right now who can be considered high end.

But a 2nd for Jeudy or Dhop is a no brainer. Jeudy coming out was known for being good with routes.

 

[RIpats88]

Raiders Set To Host LB Andrew Van Ginkel

Jordan Schultz reports that the Raiders are set to host free agent LB Andrew Van Ginkel for a visit in the near future. Van Ginkel met with the Patriots on Thursday and Schultz says it

nfltraderumors.co

Guess he didn’t want to play for minimum wage?

For some reason patriots fans take it as a badge of honor that Bill won't pay anyone and is saving Kraft money...

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

We could easily shift money around and pay more people.

Mcdaniels is incredibly annoying going after the same Players him and Ziegler.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you look at their contracts which is likely equal to board‘s contract then it indicates they are mainly Special teams and no other teams viewed them as starters

Why don't YOU take a look at their contracts? OH. I know. If you did, it would show how ridiculous you are.

Wilson - 1yr/$1.6M cap hit. 1.08M Salary. 275K Signing Bonus. $330K guaranteed salary.
McMillan - 1yr/ 1.545M Cap hit. 1.08M Salary. $245k signing bonus. $330K guaranteed,
Board - 2yr/$5M total cap hit. 2.6M guaranteed money.

But, yeah.. those are really equal.. *SMH*

Board is like Slater. He's a special teams Ace. Wilson and McMillan are reserves who happen to play special teams. Maybe that's too much nuance for you.

 

[Real fan 02]

On tight ends, I don't think that was really a problem last year. Only 5 times out of 17 games did they allow 40+ yards to a TE in a game:

Mark Andrews 8rec/89yds/2tds
Njoku 3/58
Conklin 6/79/2 (2nd game had 2/15, so they adjusted)
Hockenson 5/43/1 with the Vikings (but had next to nothing in the first meeting when he was with the Lions)
Waller 3/48/1

Other than Conklin in one of the Jets games having a day, there's Mark Andrews who does that to a LOT of teams, and then a lot of low catch or low yard efforts, including two minimal impact games from our new guy Gesicki.

It remains to be seen how much this changes without McCourty (other safeties may have to take more deep responsibilities, which pulls them from TE matchups), but in general it hasn't been the TE's that killed them recently, other than specific games.

Thanks for the information.. it just felt that we struggled against TEs..

The 3rd and 8 catches we've given up to TEs that allow drives to continue is what is in my head.. I know overall we were ok against then but as you stated who will now step up and take that responsibility..

I don't know what the teams plans are at CB.. is jo Jones going to be asked to play the deep safety role? I feel he's better suited in slot.. but looking at our safeties I'm trying to figure who takes that assignment ..

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Why don't YOU take a look at their contracts? OH. I know. If you did, it would show how ridiculous you are.

Wilson - 1yr/$1.6M cap hit. 1.08M Salary. 275K Signing Bonus. $330K guaranteed salary.
McMillan - 1yr/ 1.545M Cap hit. 1.08M Salary. $245k signing bonus. $330K guaranteed,
Board - 2yr/$5M total cap hit. 2.6M guaranteed money.

But, yeah.. those are really equal.. *SMH*

Board is like Slater. He's a special teams Ace. Wilson and McMillan are reserves who happen to play special teams. Maybe that's too much nuance for you.

this only proves my point, that wilson and mcmillan have special team contracts, thank you.

 

[DaBruinz]

Looking at the roster, it feels like we still need the following - either through free agency or the draft. There are others areas we can still upgrade but this is where I see starting holes or a lack of depth.

1. two cornerbacks. A real lack of depth behind the Jones. Think one veteran and a draft pick.
2. Another edge defender. We are lacking a bit behind Judson and Uche, and Uche isn’t really a full time player. Maybe Jennings and Perkins can step up but I could see someone added here.

They have Judon, Wise, Uche, Jennings, Perkins, and Mitchell for edge guys.. A lot will depend on how Perkins recovered from his injury last season.

5. Free safety. It might be that Dugger could do this but not sure it’s best use of his skill set. Maybe they think Bryant can do it.
6. depending on how they feel about Montgomery, a passing back still feels like a hole.

James Robinson is more than capable of being the "Passing back". He's one of the better pass-blocking RBs in the league. They also have Strong who can do it.

unless we’re planning to cut or trade Parker or Bourne we only really have room for one more receiver on the 53. Similarly, we all think we’ll draft an OT but we aren’t keeping 5 so one of Brown, Reiff, McDermott, and Anderson is likely gone if we take an OT high. If we go OT in the first round wouldn’t be stunned to see Brown shown the door.

You forgot Stueber as one of the OTs.. And don't say they aren't keeping X number because they used 5 different RTs last year. During the 1st 7 or 8 years of BB's tender, they always had at least 4 OTs on the roster and 2 more on the PS.

 

[Real fan 02]

Dugger shrunk two inches?

Average Height and Weight of NFL Safeties in 2023

I've been a collegiate sports performance coach for 20 years. One thing I always felt was effective was showing guys the heights and weights of players at their position in the NFL. It helped give

hortonbarbell.com

Average safety height is only 6’0”.

You right he's 6'2.. how could I forget Dugger.. Phillips and peppers I was thinking of..

 

[DaBruinz]

Dugger shrunk two inches?

Average Height and Weight of NFL Safeties in 2023

I've been a collegiate sports performance coach for 20 years. One thing I always felt was effective was showing guys the heights and weights of players at their position in the NFL. It helped give

hortonbarbell.com

Average safety height is only 6’0”.

Dugger is 6' 7/8" tall. Not sure where that article got their info from.

Not sure where @Real fan 02 get's his info from..