BB THE GOAT

[PatsFanInVa]

People also forget that Brady was apparently dealing with a shoulder injury so severe, there were reports after it was over he may not have played had they made the postseason. It was crazy.

That injury was so bad it hung around on the injury report for like a decade

 

[Ian]

You're trying to convince me that the 95 team went in the toilet because of the meddling owner.

100% - yes

Maybe so, but the team wasn't any good 91-93 either.

They did what he did here - flushed the roster and brought in guys who could play

And the best version of the team got smoked in the 94 postseason.

So? He also won a playoff game and had completely turned that team around.

Again, there you go - doing the same thing again. That whole situation was a complete mess and that 1995 team would have been completely different had it not been for that absolute fiasco that went on once fans got word of what was going on.

 

[Wozzy]

I care about the history of the game. Relevant history. Look, I said I'll re-watch the doc but it won't make the 91-95 Browns any more relevant. That won't change.

You're trying to convince me that the 95 team went in the toilet because of the meddling owner. Maybe so, but the team wasn't any good 91-93 either. And the best version of the team got smoked in the 94 postseason.

Plus, aren't you the guy who thinks Terry Bradshaw is really a bum?

Bradshaw a bum, no, I said he was just "good" in relation to his peers who were better.

The Steelers were a dominant team, Noll had something to do with that. This isn't a fairy tale, or a Disney movie.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Bruce Arians first four years as head coach in the NFL; 9-3, 10-6, 11-5, 13-3 in order.

Tom was nowhere to be found.

Great head coach? He was certainly regarded as one of the great offensive coaches in the NFL. He certainly won like a good coach.

Well we have our resident "Tom Brady's not as good as Patrick Mahomes" guy... apparently Brady just went from great coach to great coach.

But wait, I believe he's also trashing BB (Ha ha!)

Random chance, FTW!

 

[crawhammer]

see, what did I tell you guys about crawhammer lol. i’ve been kicking his rear end in every thread, but I’ll refrain in this one and let others do it.

This from the poster whose favorite talking points are Belichick's a habitual cheater and Brady's a total fraud. Yeah, those arguments are kicking ass .

 

[Wozzy]

Well we have our resident "Tom Brady's not as good as Patrick Mahomes" guy... apparently Brady just went from great coach to great coach.

But wait, I believe he's also trashing BB (Ha ha!)

Random chance, FTW!

Mahomes has the best offensive mind in football and a HOF coach... is that irrelevant?

You do realize Andy Reid played us in a Super Bowl back in 2004 with a completely different QB... right?

 

[Ring 6]

And I listed Belichick's record without Brady and you act stupid like you don't have any clue what I'm talking about.

Maybe you're "forgetting" things about Parcells too? He absolutely belongs among the very elite head coaches in NFL history.

I didn’t because it’s a stupid way to discuss the GOATS career.

I’m not forgetting anything at all. I give him credit for everything he did, good or bad. You seem to want to ignore the bulk of his career.
His career doesn’t come close to matching Belichicks.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Mahomes has the best offensive mind in football and a HOF coach... is that irrelevant?

Wait, to what?

Here's where I am: 60 and not a good bet to live to 90 (but I wish.)

So chances are, nobody gets named a better QB than Brady in my lifetime by anybody worth hearing from. I find it hard to believe we'll hear there's a better HC than BB was.

This and climate change are two very good reasons not to envy the young. Also the girls from Coyote Ugly are actual cougars now. And they were too young for me anyway.

So wait, Mahomes has the best... and a HOF... okay I see what you're saying. But weirdly enough, my guy doesn't usually say Brady isn't as good as Mahomes because BB is good. Maybe I missed it, but usually he's playing the "Look at the stats!!!! so what if it's only 2 rings and 1 was gifted by officials!" game.
If my guy had his say, Reid would be in the running for GOAT coach. In fact, if you just said The Walrus and counted him and Holmgren as different alter egos of the same coach superhero, he might actually have a case of sorts. (Although oddly enough, they also look like that SNL Bears "Superfan.")

Irrelevant you say? No such thing!

 

[crawhammer]

Still - he was a really good coach who challenged Brady and his players and clearly, the result speaks volumes. Again, coaching is underrated, but it does matter. Players win games, but coaches can definitely lose them. The best ones just tend to lose fewer

Did you mean overrated? If so I agree with everything you say here.

I underestimated Arians motivational impact. He had a close relationship with many of his players and they seemed to respect him. Bowles is aloof and his conservative approach to coaching and game management is the opposite of Arians.

I think the Brady-Arians relationship took a hit over the Antonio Brown situation. Brady forced him on Arians, and it worked out until it didn't, at which point Arians literally antagonized AB on the sideline and AB predictably lost his mind.

I think both probably wish now they had won SB 55 without AB but he definitely made that offense better. And I think had he not flown the coop in 2021 they may have repeated. As it was toilet bowles ultimately ****ed up that season too.

 

[crawhammer]

Bradshaw a bum, no, I said he was just "good" in relation to his peers who were better.

The Steelers were a dominant team, Noll had something to do with that. This isn't a fairy tale, or a Disney movie.

Best QB of the 1970's = Bradshaw

He outplayed all of his contemporaries when it counted the most. And it's not even close.

 

[Ring 6]

From Volin’s column today

In a poll of 201 media members, team management, and league management, conducted by longtime NFL scribe Rick Gosselin, Belichick was overwhelmingly voted the greatest coach in NFL history. Belichick got 99 of 201 votes, followed by Vince Lombardi (56), Paul Brown (19), Don Shula (13), Joe Gibbs (6), Tom Landry (4), George Halas and Chuck Noll (2 each).

 

[crawhammer]

Mahomes has the best offensive mind in football

Reid does. Mahomes is a great QB who is also adapt at improvisation. But Reid is the brains of that operation.

 

[crawhammer]

Again, there you go - doing the same thing again. That whole situation was a complete mess and that 1995 team would have been completely different had it not been for that absolute fiasco that went on once fans got word of what was going on.

Maybe so but it seems likely you're at least overstated it with "completely different." Put a smaller percentage on it and it seems more tenable.

 

[Ian]

Maybe so but it seems likely you're at least overstated it with "completely different." Put a smaller percentage on it and it seems more tenable.

Look at how they started and their record after the announcement. That was a massive deal.

 

[DarrylS]

Back to the intent of this thread, which has morphed into a KC thread.. hands down BB wins the prize, hands down.
Reid is good, but have to go back to Super Bowl XXXIX when Reid was HC of Philly, the worse clock management in a game of that stature I've ever seen.
The only place that BB's record & abilities will be doubted is on this message board by Pats Fans..
Sheesh it is always a long off season and every year it seems to get longer..

 

[RobertWeathers]

I thought Brady was actually better in 2002 in quite a few ways than he was in 2001 and the outcome of the season was worse. Go figure

Yep. Tom played with a separated shoulder the last few games of the year as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Come on, obviously I'm aware of that. ************.

I have no idea what you are/aren't aware of.

You said this...

That's an incorrect statement. Brady made the playoffs every season of his career except for 2002. So including Tampa Bay 2020, 2021 & 2022... playoffs each season... 5-2 record with a Super Bowl title. I'd consider that a roaring success.

Mistyped.

 

[Real fan 02]

Settle down. I don't really know why we're doing this. He won six championships as a head coach. Plenty of other "better" coaches with "elite QBs" haven't come close to that. They've won two at best and honestly, plenty of other teams would be happy to hold that distinction. He deserves more credit than you're giving him.

It's been three years, which included a 10-7 finish and a postseason run with a rookie QB. Basically, this year will make or break your argument post-Brady as at least this time, he's got both the horses in the coaching staff and will likely add horses in free agency as they improve the roster to get them closer to where they were in 2021.

I don't know why you take such glee crapping on a guy who is only three years removed from Brady. If 5 years had passed and there was nothing to show for it, you could make the argument. But the rest of us remember it how it actually happened, and I'm absolutely glad they hired him. You can be competitive year in and year out with an elite QB. You can't go on the run we were just on without a great coach.

Well put Ian,

My thing has always been I don't believe Mahomes or Allen will have the longevity of 10 to 15 year careers to be able to surpass what we did.

As they say once you start getting injured as it's part of the game you don't get healthier as your career goes on and you age.. Mahomes has had knee injuries, ankle and turf toe wich can be a career killer.. people forget about that because the guys so great!

Same for Allen, he's a physical beast and his playing style isn't conducive to a lasting career.. so again I reaffirm that I don't believe anyone is getting 6.

 

[Real fan 02]

Yep. Tom played with a separated shoulder the last few games of the year as well.

Yes, 02 we were injured plagued especially on defense..

 

[ivanvamp]

I'm lost now. What is this thread about? Andy Reid? I thought it was BB being the GOAT HC. Which is pretty indisputably true.

Doesn't mean Andy Reid isn't also a great coach, because he very clearly IS. And it also doesn't mean there haven't been a ton of other wildly successful HCs in NFL history, because there have been. A bunch with incredibly impressive resumés. None of that changes the fact that BB is the greatest HC in the history of the NFL.

People point to the fact that BB had Tom Brady as if that's a mark AGAINST Belichick. That's total nonsense. Shula had HOF QBs in Griese and Marino, and he coached in an era when you could build a team and keep it together - no salary cap. He won two Super Bowls. Bill Walsh had Joe Montana. He won three Super Bowls. Chuck Noll had HOFer Terry Bradshaw and one of the best, most complete franchises in NFL history. He won four Super Bowls. All legendary coaches, and they had legendary quarterbacks. Belichick drafted Brady, kept Brady as the #4 QB when NOBODY ever did anything like that, coached Brady, made the decision that 99% of other coaches would not have made - to put Brady in as starter even when Bledsoe was healthy (even though over the stretch of time when Bledsoe was injured, Brady went just 3-3, including the Jets game), chose Brady over Bledsoe in the Super Bowl even though Brady was banged up with a sprained ankle, and then made the call to jettison Bledsoe in favor of Brady. Oh and continually worked with Brady to build the most epic franchise in the NFL's history.

Far from being a mark AGAINST Bill Belichick, winning so much with Brady is a mark in FAVOR of Bill Belichick. It's also a mark in favor of Tom Brady. Lots of coaches have won Super Bowls. Lots of QBs have won Super Bowls. Nobody has won as many Super Bowls as a HC/QB pair as BB and TB. Nobody is even close. Great head coaches win multiple Super Bowls. The greatest coach of all time has won SIX Super Bowls.

What are we even doing here, people?