OT: Dan Orlovsky Top 5 QB's Of All Time

[Patsfan1958]

Elway 2x Super bowl Champion *

From yourteamcheats.com

"It is more probable than not that the Broncos got a significant competitive advantage (real or potential) from salary cap rule breaking. The entire league followed the salary cap rules during those years and the Broncos did not. They also happened to win the Super Bowl twice during those compromised years. If a Super Bowl can be tainted by a cheating scandal, then these two are pretty high up the line."

 

[venecol]

all time
brady
graham
manning
montana
unitas
staubach
starr
luckman
marino
baugh

super bowl era
brady
manning
montana
unitas
staubach
starr
marino
young
elway
brees/rodgers/rapistberger etc - a bunch all jammed together

How come I never see Bradshaw on these lists with 4 SBs (1 of only 3). Winning SBs is hard.

 

[Pape]

How come I never see Bradshaw on these lists with 4 SBs (1 of only 3). Winning SBs is hard.

why? the steelcurtain, swann, harris, blier, stallworth etc etc

bradshaw is good, accomplishments rank in the top tier, no doubt... but how many guys on those teams are in the hof? he was playing with a stacked deck... those guys made him better, he didnt necessarily make them better... least thats why he doesnt make my top tens...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

How come I never see Bradshaw on these lists with 4 SBs (1 of only 3). Winning SBs is hard.

I think he's right below those guys in the next tier.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Marino had a passer rating of 77.1 in the Play-offs for his career. 85.0 is average. Probably Coaching.

CoAcHiNg

I wonder what garbage coach he had.

 

[TheRainMaker]

...and the chop block and cap cheating things...

It's interesting when former players talk about those 90's Broncos saying they dreaded facing them because of how cheap they were throwing those blocks. Many defenders had said they played scared because they were worried about getting their legs taken out.

 

[crawhammer]

Guys who are great in the regular season and postseason deserve top five.

Being great in both the regular season and postseason really whittles down the list.

Brady and Montana become 1 and 2 respectively by a very wide margin.

Elway remains top 5.

Terry Bradshaw has to be included in that top 5 list. I would put Bradshaw slightly above Elway at 3 but either way they're 3 & 4.

The 5th spot isn't clear cut. However, Marino has to be eliminated. He's top 5 without question if you're considering regular season only but once you add the postseason, Marino is kicked out immediately.

The 5th spot probably comes down to Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman, or Peyton Manning. Too many postseason chokes for Peyton so he's out. Aikman was really good in his three Super Bowl winning postseasons but his regular season numbers are thoroughly underwhelming. I'll go with Staubach for the 5th spot.

Mahomes undoubtedly will make his way into this top 5 but he's not there yet and he's never catching Brady. No one is ever catching Brady.

 

[Bruins29]

Adam's career was extended by the dome, and in the long run Ghost could have been as good, but BB never trusted him in crucial times.

Lol. Ghost was clearly a better kicker than AV and there is no way to debate it unless you are completely delusional and not interested in having an objective discussion

Stop embarrassing yourself

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Lol. Ghost was clearly a better kicker than AV and there is no way to debate it unless you are completely delusional and not interested in having an objective discussion

Stop embarrassing yourself

Yup, there's an 85% chance Ghost will make this very makeable kick, whereas even with Brady the chances of making this 4th down conversion in an unnecessary situation is at best 35%, so who cares about the three points in a close game like this.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Now Mahomes feels like he's close to discussion for top 10 but another couple SBs he's in the top 5 discussion no question

 

[RobertWeathers]

Being great in both the regular season and postseason really whittles down the list.

Brady and Montana become 1 and 2 respectively by a very wide margin.

Elway remains top 5.

Terry Bradshaw has to be included in that top 5 list. I would put Bradshaw slightly above Elway at 3 but either way they're 3 & 4.

The 5th spot isn't clear cut. However, Marino has to be eliminated. He's top 5 without question if you're considering regular season only but once you add the postseason, Marino is kicked out immediately.

The 5th spot probably comes down to Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman, or Peyton Manning. Too many postseason chokes for Peyton so he's out. Aikman was really good in his three Super Bowl winning postseasons but his regular season numbers are thoroughly underwhelming. I'll go with Staubach for the 5th spot.

Mahomes undoubtedly will make his way into this top 5 but he's not there yet and he's never catching Brady. No one is ever catching Brady.

Yep.

People overlook wining as one of the most important stats a QB needs to have in order to be great and how they conduct themselves in big moments.

....and there is a difference between being a passer and QB.

I agree with your top 5. Bradshaw is so unappreciated it's absurd. Also need to consider Starr, Unitas and Graham for Top 10.

@Ice_Ice_Brady put together a fantastic xls which assigned points to key stats which assigned more points to things like wins, Super Bowls etc.

 

[fightingirish595]

Still too soon to put mahomes there. He’s accomplished a lot but there’s more to do. I’m not sure he’s top 10 yet but a win Sunday I think solidifies top 10.

If it’s Super Bowl era but Unitas doesn’t qualify for Super Bowl era it’s…


1: Brady
2: Montana

The rest is really splitting hairs IMO

I think you could make an argument for a lot of them

Elway probably belongs. People fault him for losing to much better teams in the Super Bowl.

 

[fightingirish595]

Being great in both the regular season and postseason really whittles down the list.

Brady and Montana become 1 and 2 respectively by a very wide margin.

Elway remains top 5.

Terry Bradshaw has to be included in that top 5 list. I would put Bradshaw slightly above Elway at 3 but either way they're 3 & 4.

The 5th spot isn't clear cut. However, Marino has to be eliminated. He's top 5 without question if you're considering regular season only but once you add the postseason, Marino is kicked out immediately.

The 5th spot probably comes down to Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman, or Peyton Manning. Too many postseason chokes for Peyton so he's out. Aikman was really good in his three Super Bowl winning postseasons but his regular season numbers are thoroughly underwhelming. I'll go with Staubach for the 5th spot.

Mahomes undoubtedly will make his way into this top 5 but he's not there yet and he's never catching Brady. No one is ever catching Brady.

Wow I really like this. Almost posted that top 5 myself.

 

[fightingirish595]

Yep.

People overlook wining as one of the most important stats a QB needs to have in order to be great and how they conduct themselves in big moments.

....and there is a difference between being a passer and QB.

I agree with your top 5. Bradshaw is so unappreciated it's absurd. Also need to consider Starr, Unitas and Graham for Top 10.

@Ice_Ice_Brady put together a fantastic xls which assigned points to key stats which assigned more points to things like wins, Super Bowls etc.

Bradshaw is underrated because it was 50 years ago.

I’m probably one of the only people under 30 years old that could tell you the steelers won there 3rd and 4th SB because of there offense

 

[everlong]

1. Brady - It was enjoyable reading Rob Parker's continued hatred. Anyone who doesn't have him here is a hater.

2. Montana - The biggest thing about Joe is how much longer would have he lasted with today's protect the QB rules?

3. Manning - This is where controversy starts but ask yourself a question, how many rings would have he won if his era didn't overlap with Brady? Yes I'll be the first one to say his defense won him both titles and he choked away the other two titles but what if he wins early and doesn't have that pressure of always being the guy who should have been #1 and losing to the real goat and being #2?

4-10 In no particular order Starbach, Elway, Marino, Favre, Unitas, Starr, Graham. - It's so hard with the last three to gauge where they should land because I didn't see them play every week and get the sense of who they really were. Hard to ignore the numbers and titles. People always say they couldn't play in this era. Well could the players of today play in that era without the advanced training, equipment, diet and rules to protect players especially the QBs and that's not mentioning holding down a full time job in the off season instead of training year round.

Marino - Post season numbers tell the tale of why he's not higher. Like Rodgers below the apologists try to blame everyone but him but the facts are he lost to lesser teams a lot and was one of the big reasons.

Starbach - Very underrated. If Jackie Smith catches that ball and the Cowboys and Steelers split he's remembered in a much different light.

Graham - Amazing numbers for that era and a winner.

Unitas - Manning 1.0

Favre - Those three years he was as good as it gets. If Holmgren sticks around his career might have been much better. I say might because he definitely bought into his own Madden persona.

Elway - You have to give the guy a lot of credit for getting to 5 SB with a team which was just good not great. On other other hand if they were in the NFC they're probably going out in the divisional round all of those years.

10-20 and why I wouldn't put them in the top 10, also no particular order even though I'll number them to keep track.

10. Rodgers - Could be as they say the most talented QB of them all but he's not a winner. AR is all about AR. All those times he lost going in as a favorite and then all of his apologits start saying he has no weapons. Chris Simms is the worst apologist for him and now has started with Josh Allen saying the reason he's lost is because the other teams have more weapons. BS.

11. Brees - Dome stat machine. His early numbers outside suck. They're better later in his career but remember he was most playing in Tampa or Charlotte. Not exactly windy and cold places.

12 Bradshaw - Clutch player but those teams were loaded and won a lot early in spite of him at times.

13. Aikman - Similar story to Bradshaw but he was a much larger cog. The defense and OL don't get enough credit compared to the triplets.

14. Young - Not enough time at peak.

15. Warner - Give the guy his due for making the most of his talents, winning one and making three SBs and winning MVPs. That said when you look at his success in both STL and AZ my god the talent they had around him. There's reasons why he sucked in NY. Wind, weather and the talent wasn't HOF worthy nearly across the board.

16. Tarkenton - His numbers for that era were amazing. Never could win the big one.

17. Layne - Didn't see him.


18. Van Brocklin - Didn't see him.

19/20. Fouts/Moon - pure stats guys who didn't win ****.


I probably missed somebody doing this off the top of my head.

I left Mahomes out because he's still playing. If he wins next Sunday. I'd vault him into the top 10. Seriously he's already done more than Rodgers, Favre, Brees and Young by making his third SB and having won as many as the others. Even if he loses I'd put him ahead of these four. Say want you want about him having to play improve that kid wants to win. The loss against the Bucs he kept fighting to the end with little to no help. Can you imagine Rodgers in that situation? He would have been throwing his hands up and complaining about teammates, the officals, etc.

I don't want Mahomes to win because I want as much distance between my guy and him at the top but I respect him a lot. He has more fight in him that Rodgers or Brees and it's not even close. He's much more clutch than Young and he doesn't have to be as wreckless with his style to be effective as Favre, not even close.

Before anybody starts with the officials put them in the SB, I won't disagree. Both home teams in the CGs benefitted from getting all the calls.

 

[Rob0729]

Mahomes may be the most talented QB of all time. I am not exaggerating there. But being the most talented may not translate to being the best.

Brady isn't the most talented QB. Not even close. But he is the best QB of all time hands down.

So although I think it is premature to put Mahomes at #2 or even in the top 5 at this point, I can see how someone might have an argument to put him there. I just don't agree with it - yet.

 

[venecol]

Mahomes may be the most talented QB of all time. I am not exaggerating there. But being the most talented may not translate to being the best.

Brady isn't the most talented QB. Not even close. But he is the best QB of all time hands down.

So although I think it is premature to put Mahomes at #2 or even in the top 5 at this point, I can see how someone might have an argument to put him there. I just don't agree with it - yet.

I was wondering how long it was going to take you to come to your boy Orlovsky's defense. You never disappoint.

I have to say, Orlovsky is definitely qualified to rate all-time QBs.

 

[Penn State Patriot]

I only ever judge lists like this as players I’ve seen and remember in my lifetime and who passed the eye test. I was too young to see Montana play as a 49er, so my top 5 has stood for awhile:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Elway
4. Favre
5. Rodgers

It is unfair for Mahomes to be placed this high only five years into his career.

 

[Rob0729]

I was wondering how long it was going to take you to come to your boy Orlovsky's defense. You never disappoint.

I have to say, Orlovsky is definitely qualified to rate all-time QBs.

I said I disagree with Orlovsky. I just said I can see making the argument even though I think it is wrong. How is that defending the guy? I said I think he is wrong.

Besides, who gives a crap about anyone's top 5 QB of all time list. It is all just filler BS anyway. His Mahomes take was most likely a hot take just to get clicks and eyeballs anyway.

 

[venecol]

I said I disagree with Orlovsky. I just said I can see making the argument even though I think it is wrong. How is that defending the guy? I said I think he is wrong.

Besides, who gives a crap about anyone's top 5 QB of all time list. It is all just filler BS anyway. His Mahomes take was most likely a hot take just to get clicks and eyeballs anyway.

Nobody gives a **** but you're the only one defending him.