Inside the most dysfunctional Pats season under BB

[archstanton543]

I'm sure there is more.

Like why Bill would egg on a QB controversy that didn't need to exist leading up to and after the Bears game.

Just doing what's best for the football team.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Even a Homer has to wonder why BB changed the offense and had a Defensive Coordinator run it.

Senility is more logical than not caring.

 

[crawhammer]

Cherry picking your stats to put Bill further down the rung.

Rk	Coach	Yrs	From	To	G	W	L	T	W-L% ▼	G > .500	Yr plyf	G plyf	W plyf	L plyf	W-L%	AvRk	BstRk	Chmp	SBwl	Conf
1	Guy Chamberlin+	6	1922	1927	81	58	16	7	.784	42	0	0	0	0		3.2	1	4	0	0
2	John Madden+	10	1969	1978	142	103	32	7	.759	71	8	16	9	7	.563	1.3	1	1	1	1
3	Vince Lombardi+	10	1959	1969	136	96	34	6	.738	62	6	10	9	1	.900	1.5	1	5	2	2
4	George Allen+	12	1966	1977	168	116	47	5	.712	69	7	9	2	7	.222	1.9	1	0	0	1
5	Matt LaFleur	4	2019	2022	66	47	19	0	.712	28	3	5	2	3	.400	1.5	1	0	0	0
6	Jim Harbaugh	4	2011	2014	64	44	19	1	.695	25	3	8	5	3	.625	1.8	1			1
7	Tommy Hughitt	5	1920	1924	56	34	15	7	.694	19	0	0	0	0		6.2	2	0	0	0
8	Blanton Collier	8	1963	1970	112	76	34	2	.691	42	5	7	3	4	.429	1.4	1	1	0	0
9	Ray Flaherty+	11	1936	1949	122	80	37	5	.684	43	6	6	2	4	.333	1.9	1	2	0	0
10	George Halas+	40	1920	1967	497	318	148	31	.682	170	8	9	6	3	.667	2.7	1	6	0	0
11	Don Shula+	33	1963	1995	490	328	156	6	.677	172	19	36	19	17	.528	1.8	1	2	2	6
12	Paul Brown+	25	1946	1975	326	213	104	9	.672	109	15	17	9	8	.529	2.0	1	7	0	0
13	Tony Dungy+	13	1996	2008	208	139	69	0	.668	70	11	19	9	10	.474	1.8	1	1	1	1
14	Jim Lee Howell	7	1954	1960	84	53	27	4	.663	26	3	4	2	2	.500	2.0	1	1
15	Bill Belichick	28	1991	2022	450	298	152	0	.662	146	19	44	31	13	.705	1.8	1	6	6

Top 10 all time wins and their win %:

1	Don Shula+	33	1963	1995	490	328	156	6	.677	172	19	36	19	17	.528	1.8	1	2	2	6
2	George Halas+	40	1920	1967	497	318	148	31	.682	170	8	9	6	3	.667	2.7	1	6	0	0
3	Bill Belichick	28	1991	2022	450	298	152	0	.662	146	19	44	31	13	.705	1.8	1	6	6	9
4	Tom Landry+	29	1960	1988	418	250	162	6	.607	88	18	36	20	16	.556	2.4	1	2	2	5
5	Andy Reid	24	1999	2022	386	247	138	1	.641	109	18	36	20	16	.556	1.8	1	1	1	3
6	Curly Lambeau+	33	1921	1953	380	226	132	22	.631	94	5	5	3	2	.600	3.2	1	6	0	0
7	Paul Brown+	25	1946	1975	326	213	104	9	.672	109	15	17	9	8	.529	2.0	1	7	0	0
8	Marty Schottenheimer	21	1984	2006	327	200	126	1	.613	74	13	18	5	13	.278	2.0	1	0	0	0
9	Chuck Noll+	23	1969	1991	342	193	148	1	.566	45	12	24	16	8	.667	2.1	1	4	4	4
10	Dan Reeves	23	1981	2003	357	190	165	2	.535	25	9	20	11	9	.550	2.7	1	0	0

His win % is right in line with his peers at the top of the chart.

Seriously?? How am I cherry picking when you tried to refute my facts with the same exact data? Except you screwed up the second block by not putting W-L% in descending order.

This exactly what I said: By winning percentage BB is 15th in the regular season and 13th in the postseason.
Those rankings are reflected in the blocks. Next time put the relevant column in descending order so it makes sense.

 

[crawhammer]

Senility is more logical than not caring.

Maybe this is just what happens when the goose that laid the golden eggs has flown the coop. Lots of eggs still being laid, but not the golden kind.

 

[Steve102]

Seriously?? How am I cherry picking when you tried to refute my facts with the same exact data? Except you screwed up the second block by not putting W-L% in descending order.

This exactly what I said: By winning percentage BB is 15th in the regular season and 13th in the postseason.
Those rankings are reflected in the blocks. Next time put the relevant column in descending order so it makes sense.

No, the bottom is the top 10 in wins AND their win %. It makes prefect sense. Since your struggling reading it without a heading, here it is again.

Rk	Coach	Yrs	From	To	G	W ▼	L	T	W-L%	G > .500	Yr plyf	G plyf	W plyf	L plyf	W-L%	AvRk	BstRk	Chmp	SBwl	Conf
1	Don Shula+	33	1963	1995	490	328	156	6	.677	172	19	36	19	17	.528	1.8	1	2	2	6
2	George Halas+	40	1920	1967	497	318	148	31	.682	170	8	9	6	3	.667	2.7	1	6	0	0
3	Bill Belichick	28	1991	2022	450	298	152	0	.662	146	19	44	31	13	.705	1.8	1	6	6	9
4	Tom Landry+	29	1960	1988	418	250	162	6	.607	88	18	36	20	16	.556	2.4	1	2	2	5
5	Andy Reid	24	1999	2022	386	247	138	1	.641	109	18	36	20	16	.556	1.8	1	1	1	3
6	Curly Lambeau+	33	1921	1953	380	226	132	22	.631	94	5	5	3	2	.600	3.2	1	6	0	0
7	Paul Brown+	25	1946	1975	326	213	104	9	.672	109	15	17	9	8	.529	2.0	1	7	0	0
8	Marty Schottenheimer	21	1984	2006	327	200	126	1	.613	74	13	18	5	13	.278	2.0	1	0	0	0
9	Chuck Noll+	23	1969	1991	342	193	148	1	.566	45	12	24	16	8	.667	2.1	1	4	4	4
10	Dan Reeves	23	1981	2003	357	190	165	2	.535	25	9	20	11	9	.550	2.7	1	0	0	4

As you can see, Belichick's win % is in line with his top win producing peers. If you want to talk about win %, there's John Madden and everyone else.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maybe this is just what happens when the goose that laid the golden eggs has flown the coop. Lots of eggs still being laid, but not the golden kind.

No one can be awesome forever.

 

[crawhammer]

No, the bottom is the top 10 in wins AND their win %. It makes prefect sense. Since your struggling reading it without a heading, here it is again.

Rk	Coach	Yrs	From	To	G	W ▼	L	T	W-L%	G > .500	Yr plyf	G plyf	W plyf	L plyf	W-L%	AvRk	BstRk	Chmp	SBwl	Conf
1	Don Shula+	33	1963	1995	490	328	156	6	.677	172	19	36	19	17	.528	1.8	1	2	2	6
2	George Halas+	40	1920	1967	497	318	148	31	.682	170	8	9	6	3	.667	2.7	1	6	0	0
3	Bill Belichick	28	1991	2022	450	298	152	0	.662	146	19	44	31	13	.705	1.8	1	6	6	9
4	Tom Landry+	29	1960	1988	418	250	162	6	.607	88	18	36	20	16	.556	2.4	1	2	2	5
5	Andy Reid	24	1999	2022	386	247	138	1	.641	109	18	36	20	16	.556	1.8	1	1	1	3
6	Curly Lambeau+	33	1921	1953	380	226	132	22	.631	94	5	5	3	2	.600	3.2	1	6	0	0
7	Paul Brown+	25	1946	1975	326	213	104	9	.672	109	15	17	9	8	.529	2.0	1	7	0	0
8	Marty Schottenheimer	21	1984	2006	327	200	126	1	.613	74	13	18	5	13	.278	2.0	1	0	0	0
9	Chuck Noll+	23	1969	1991	342	193	148	1	.566	45	12	24	16	8	.667	2.1	1	4	4	4
10	Dan Reeves	23	1981	2003	357	190	165	2	.535	25	9	20	11	9	.550	2.7	1	0	0	4

As you can see, Belichick's win % is in line with his top win producing peers. If you want to talk about win %, there's John Madden and everyone else.

You said I was cherry picking. I posted a bunch of data including where Belichick ranked in winning percentage. Not only were those rankings not cherry picked, they were entirely accurate. So yes, when I say winning percentage, and provide corresponding data, I'm wanting to talk about winning percentage.

I can read your chart. It's regular season wins in descending order. You highlighted W-L% which is deceiving because that's not in order. Seriously, get Dan Reeves out of my face. I don't care that he has a 190 wins because his winning percentage sucks even though you highlighted it along with all of the other jumbled W-L percentages.

 

[crawhammer]

No one can be awesome forever.

Sounds like the attitude that some are accusing BB of taking on. Just muddling through until he passes Shula. Then off quietly to cold winters in Nantucket.

 

[Steve102]

You said I was cherry picking. I posted a bunch of data including where Belichick ranked in winning percentage. Not only were those rankings not cherry picked, they were entirely accurate. So yes, when I say winning percentage, and provide corresponding data, I'm wanting to talk about winning percentage.

I can read your chart. It's regular season wins in descending order. You highlighted W-L% which is deceiving because that's not in order. Seriously, get Dan Reeves out of my face. I don't care that he has a 190 wins because his winning percentage sucks even though you highlighted it along with all of the other jumbled W-L percentages.

Stay with me, because you appear to be having a hard time. It the top 10 in wins, sorted by wins, in descending order. The % is not sorted at all, because the chart is already sorted by wins. I highlighted the win % because that what is being discussed. You 100% cherry picked win % by putting Bill against guys like Guy Chamberlin, Tommy Hughitt and Ray Flaherty, true giants in the annals of NFL coaching, which is why those names always come up when debating GOATs of coaching. *sarcasm*.

Everyone here knows you hate Bill. It's noted. You might as well put it in your signature. But when you CHERRY PICK win % and don't include a minimum about of games won, it's disingenuous. So, yeah, I called you on your BS. Hate on Bill all you want, but his win% is in line with the all time greats of the sport.

Another caveat: No one gives a chit about win%. Not one of these guys cared about it when they coached. They all cared about winning football games, period.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sounds like the attitude that some are accusing BB of taking on. Just muddling through until he passes Shula. Then off quietly to cold winters in Nantucket.

There is no question he is not the same coach he was in 2001, 2007, 2013 or even in 2016. Is he still good- yep. Just needs his load lightened. Doesn't need Depends yet.

 

[crawhammer]

Stay with me, because you appear to be having a hard time. It the top 10 in wins, sorted by wins, in descending order. The % is not sorted at all, because the chart is already sorted by wins. I highlighted the win % because that what is being discussed. You 100% cherry picked win % by putting Bill against guys like Guy Chamberlin, Tommy Hughitt and Ray Flaherty, true giants in the annals of NFL coaching, which is why those names always come up when debating GOATs of coaching. *sarcasm*.

Everyone here knows you hate Bill. It's noted. You might as well put it in your signature. But when you CHERRY PICK win % and don't include a minimum about of games won, it's disingenuous. So, yeah, I called you on your BS. Hate on Bill all you want, but his win% is in line with the all time greats of the sport.

Another caveat: No one gives a chit about win%. Not one of these guys cared about it when they coached. They all cared about winning football games, period.

I know what your chart is. The NFL Reference chart (that you posted as your source) requires a minimum of 50 games coached to qualify in the all-time W-L% category. Take it up with them if you don't like it. Or better yet find a chart that better aligns with whatever you think the minimum should be so you push BB up the rankings. In the meantime, his W-L% ranks 15th among coaches with at least 50 games. So there's a minimum included, nothing disingenuous about it (unless you think NFLR is trying to make BB look bad).

 

[crawhammer]

Just needs his load lightened. Doesn't need Depends yet.

Pun intended?

 

[Steve102]

I know what your chart is. The NFL Reference chart (that you posted as your source) requires a minimum of 50 games coached to qualify in the all-time W-L% category. Take it up with them if you don't like it. Or better yet find a chart that better aligns with whatever you think the minimum should be so you push BB up the rankings. In the meantime, his W-L% ranks 15th among coaches with at least 50 games. So there's a minimum included, nothing disingenuous about it (unless you think NFLR is trying to make BB look bad).

No, I don't think the NFLR is.

 

[PatsfanTN]

Jeez, the more I read and the more I hear on this….how THE F can Judge be anywhere NEAR this team going forward??
Get him AWAY from this Team for the love of god.

 

[Real fan 02]

Inside the most dysfunctional Patriots season under Bill Belichick: ‘I’ve never seen anything like it’

Clashes with the QB, Belichick blame and coaching malpractice: how the Patriots’ dysfunction last season ran deeper than anyone knew.

www.bostonherald.com

Says it all. Not the kind of thing you’d expect to hear from a BB coached team.

I feel that alot of Mac haters will have to rethink thier opinion of him.. we as fans knew the coaching was terrible, we could sense things weren't good within..

Mac was doomed from the start, imagine what he had to endure on a daily basis.

We know what Patricia was, however what the heck had judge very accomplished?

Every now and then the players would utter small sentiments.. just confirms what we all pretty much sensed.

Was all this what was best for the team as coach always says?

 

[Steve102]

Was all this what was best for the team as coach always says?

This is to me Bill's second screw up, not making the change mid season. From the report, he was more involved because he knew it was a cluster. Did he choose to keep these guys on instead of burning them down and making them damaged goods? Thereby making them unlikely to find another NFL high level job? Failed HC's, failed so badly as advisors or whatever they were that they'd never be employable in the NFL again? It's not hard for me to see this from a military point of view that Bill is the general and he doesn't want to burn down his officers out of respect for them? Quietly make the change in the offseason when less would notice?

I don't think he did what was best for the t-e-a-m, but he tried to do what was best for Judge and Patricia. Maybe?

 

[Kontradiction]

No coach is telling a QB to avoid getting clocked? This is exactly the type of thing Belichick would say. And precisely after getting concussed. Until Mac got his clock cleaned, I always thought he was living dangerously by never sliding.

Then the very next 2 games after he gets a shoulder to the head, he's sliding for the first time ever. That's the coach right there. Risk reward, which Belichick understands very well.

Source this, please. Where are you getting these assumptions that a coach would tell his QB to avoid contact and give himself up on critical third downs in a contact sport? So let’s see your source. Moreover, if you can source it, it’s time for BB to retire.

 

[turkeyneck]

Source this, please. Where are you getting these assumptions that a coach would tell his QB to avoid contact and give himself up on critical third downs in a contact sport? So let’s see your source. Moreover, if you can source it, it’s time for BB to retire.

More likely a coach just said "Mac, don't get yourself killed" and Mac over-adjusted.

 

[upstater1]

Source this, please. Where are you getting these assumptions that a coach would tell his QB to avoid contact and give himself up on critical third downs in a contact sport? So let’s see your source. Moreover, if you can source it, it’s time for BB to retire.

First, Mac got hit hard in the head. Announcers were speculating concussion. Second, next game he doesn't dive for a first down, the way he had 3 times earlier this season. What changed? Third, I can't believe you're saying a coach telling a QB not to risk more concussions is firing ground. Mac isn't Brady, but I'd never want Brady to put himself out there for injury like that.

As it is, Tua should never play football again. He certainly won't be the Phins QB after next year.

 

[RIpats88]

Correct

BOB is way worse. He had Watson and Hopkins and got himself fired.

Eh, josh McDaniels got himself fired and was a damn good offensive coordinator.

The issue is making two guys who never coached offense in charge of calling and installing a new NFL offense. Not that they were fired coaches.