Reports are the Pats may upgrade the WRs through trade (not necessarily Hopkins)

[Vindicate]

Is Tee Higgins much of a playmaker on this offense? He has produced each year he's been in the league, but he does not strike me as someone for whom you have to gameplan. I could be wrong.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Smith was 50yards better with McDaniels and many times didn't see a snap. That said we have no choice but I think he's officially broken as a Patriot.

I'd love it if Jonnu wasn't on the team next year, but the financials likely mean he's going to stay. I think we will see him on the team next season then cut the following year. I bet the Pats draft a tight end to be the long term replacement at the position this year, looks like a really good class.

Smith has shown the ability to pick up yards after he catches the ball, but of he doesn't get many targets. It seems like they need to scheme up specific plays to get him open where Henry fits into the regular offense. It doesn't seem like Smith runs good routes so having him as move tight end isn't very helpful.

 

[venecol]

The franchise tag is $20 million for a WR this year. Next year it is likely to be higher. You think the Bengals, who are the cheapest organization in the league, is going to pay like $22 million for a #2 WR in their system? They won’t even pay Jessie Bates market value.

It depends on how they do during the playoffs. Again, they are in Win mode and they got there mainly through the draft. Bates is #1 decision in '23, not Higgins who is still under a cheap contract.

Plus, in 2024, the Bengals free agents include Higgins, Burrow, Joe Mixon, Trey Hendrickson, and Tyler Boyd, There are at three players on that list that the Bengals are more likely to use the franchise tag on before Higgins if they don’t have a long term contract in place. Although I am not sure if my info includes the fifth year tender for Burrow. But his fifth year option will be in the $30-40 million range.

We're talking about '23 not '24. They need to decide on Bates and their other S this coming season. If they win the SB they may want to run it back. We'll see what happens but imo, Higgins won't be available. You can think otherwise.

But the Broncos have no choice, but not give up on Wilson. If they could though, they would probably dump him. Last year wasn’t an aberration. It was a continuation of a trend started in Seattle.

That's right. They fired their HC not their GM. That tells you everything. GM isn't about to give away elite weapons to make his QB decision look even worse in '23. They already dumped players on the D side of the ball where they are loaded.

 

[venecol]

Well, if the Pats had a time machine they could have foreseen that and not signed him to that contract.

Smith isn't the first FA bust they've signed. Won't be the last.

But many pointed out at the time of the signing that Jonnu only had 1 good season and we got exactly what he was in all the others. Same was said about Agholour. Fact is Bill over paid for these guys by jumping the gun and competing against himself. This isn't hindsight, many people called it at that time.

 

[venecol]

Is it Smiths' fault or the play calling/QB? Keep him and see how he does with an adult calling the plays.

Smith is who he's always been. His career annual stats w/ TEN match his stats w/ the Pats.

 

[archstanton543]

But many pointed out at the time of the signing that Jonnu only had 1 good season and we got exactly what he was in all the others. Same was said about Agholour. Fact is Bill over paid for these guys by jumping the gun and competing against himself. This isn't hindsight, many people called it at that time.

They had no TE's on the roster and took a gamble. Henry has worked out okay (not fantastic but okay) and Smith has been a bust. What they really need to do is draft and develop some TE's but they have bigger holes to fill than to go after that position high in the draft.

Maybe with a competent OC next year, Smith will have a good year. He's not going anywhere anyways. That's all you can hope for at this point.

 

[Ivan]

Is cooks really a #1 you have to gameplan for?

That's what the Patriots need. Another Moss, gronk. We already have a bunch of #2 receivers in ahgor, Parker, Bourne.

I'd say Meyers can be the Edelman/welker. And

Other than Hopkins There are no #1receivers available, and if they hire BOB there is 0% chance of getting him to come to NE. And they would have to give up a high pick and a ton of cap space to get him.

 

[Easywolf32]

Can you just draft Njigba, Addison or Downs/Flowers and stop clowning around with the Sanus every year man? WR Choices have been a laughing stock since the days of getting Amendola and Hogan...........Why don't they sign Tom Kennedy off the Detroit Practice squad.......guy was playing like Welker/Edelman. Or give Charlie Jones a try through the draft in the last round.

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

The WR upgrades were Keenan McCardell and Shawn Jefferson.

 

[Rob0729]

It depends on how they do during the playoffs. Again, they are in Win mode and they got there mainly through the draft. Bates is #1 decision in '23, not Higgins who is still under a cheap contract.


We're talking about '23 not '24. They need to decide on Bates and their other S this coming season. If they win the SB they may want to run it back. We'll see what happens but imo, Higgins won't be available. You can think otherwise.


That's right. They fired their HC not their GM. That tells you everything. GM isn't about to give away elite weapons to make his QB decision look even worse in '23. They already dumped players on the D side of the ball where they are loaded.

Again, if Cincy knows they are not going to keep Mixon, Higgins, Boyd, and Hendrickson; they may decide to trade one or two while they are at their peak value this offseason. The Bengals won games without Chase this year (they were 3-1), I am sure they think they can afford to lose Boyd or Higgins and not miss much because they have Burrow. And it is far easier to replace a #2 WR especially when they have two #2 or better quality WRs on the roster.

And the Broncos are in rebuild mode. The Waltons could be absentee owners. They may not have fired the GM because they just don't care unless they have money. But fans hated the head coach. It was an easy way to take the spotlight off of him and Wilson. But the Broncos did trade away Bradley Chubb already and that isn't a move that says they are looking for a fast turnaround from what they were.

 

[Ivan]

They had no TE's on the roster and took a gamble. Henry has worked out okay (not fantastic but okay) and Smith has been a bust. What they really need to do is draft and develop some TE's but they have bigger holes to fill than to go after that position high in the draft.

Maybe with a competent OC next year, Smith will have a good year. He's not going anywhere anyways. That's all you can hope for at this point.

Is cooks really a #1 you have to gameplan for?

That's what the Patriots need. Another Moss, gronk. We already have a bunch of #2 receivers in ahgor, Parker, Bourne.

I'd say Meyers can be the Edelman/welker. And

The Patriots only had one #1 WR during the Brady years, that was Randy Moss, and they didn’t win a SB with him. That wasn’t his fault, but it’s still a fact. Cooks isn’t a # 1, but he’s a really good WR who could definitely improves their WR corps, and at a cost in both picks and $$ they could easily work into their plan. The Patriots still have numerous needs, but they have money and picks to address them with, Cooks would be a good addition,

 

[Thelonious]

No. The WR issue with this team has existed since 2019. It’s gone far beyond one bad OC. And honestly a lot of the issues can be traced getting rid of Cooks in 2017, getting Matthew’s as a replacement and then jettisoning him prematurely because of an injury, cycling through WR’s in 2018 and 2019 as Gronk was getting disillusioned and Edelman started getting banged up and declining, Amendola finally deciding to stop taking pay cuts, then drafting Harry as the big replacement and completely whiffing which set a lot back and made them afraid to invest more.

Even under the assumption that Meyers (who might not be here) and Bourne were limited this year, their ceiling is still at best a WR2 and on alot of playoff teams, they’d struggle to achieve that role. I mean let’s be real, a year ago it was a running joke that our best WR couldn’t get a touchdown.

They’ve completely mismanaged that position for nearly 5 years and they’ve always talked themselves out of seriously addressing it because of cost or draft value and it’s been an albatross around the team.

At some point, they need to stop making excuses for heavily addressing it. It’s a passing league now.

Thanks for the history lesson, but I don't really see what it has to do with my suggestion. Yes. The recent history re WR's here is abysmal. Fine. Can we move on? Right now we have an interesting group, by which I mean that the coaching last year was so awful that we did not get a full look at what they might be and there were a few intriguing moments, interesting in that there is an intriguing wealth of (brace yourself) potential among them. Then there's the protean Mr. Jones. As a group, they warrant a deeper look. Wanna dump a couple? Be my guest. To me, given in particular the need to get a full look at Mac this year, O-Line is the obvious point of emphasis. Given this, I would not waste a high pick on a wr, and in later picks, you ain't gonna get much. If you want a WR, see what you can find trade/free agent, use him, and study what else you have in that room over the course of the season. I would simply make the priority re wr: 1) Forget for a moment about wr's and draft OL help.,2) Pay Jakobi,whatever (whatever) it takes, 3) Keep your eye out for a fun wr later draftpick if you want, but expect little, 4) When 3) doesn't work, buy a vet.

 

[Toofy]

Just get the TE mayers dude if available at 14 and cut Henry . Sign one decent FA RT and resign Meyers, J Jones and possibly middle of the pack FS with 40 million dollars .

2nd round and 3rd round draft a tackle / CB based on BPA nd few more OT/ Center in lower rounds to develop .

Hope Jonnu and Thornton shine in year 2 with better utilization of Bourne . If we are creative the defense should help us get to off-season .

Use 2024 to go bonkers in FA if Mac takes the junior year leap . Higgins and Jeudy might be available in 2024 and. We are out of Jonnu and possibly Godchaux contract .

 

[PScottman]

Given this, I would not waste a high pick on a wr, and in later picks, you ain't gonna get much.

It's been said 1000 times, so why not 1001 - all you need is #1 WRs man! Its the NWRFL!

Don't need no OL to block, no QB to throw, no OC to scheme. No DLs to stop the run, no CBs for the other teams WRs, no pass rushers or punters (definitely no STs cuz those players never have any impact on the game) or anything else.

Just get them #1 WRs and all is wonderful!

 

[venecol]

Lazar's summary:

Under Contract:

Tyquan Thornton (rookie) - There's a chance the Patriots put too much on Thornton's plate in his rookie season. He would have been better off as a shot-play option rather than playing 65.6% of the snaps with a full route tree. Thornton's usage left a lot to be desired all season, as this coaching staff struggled to get him into consistent foot races in space other than on vertical shots. His route technique and conversions based on coverages are incredibly raw. But he should've gotten more help with motion and alignment to outrun defenders rather than asking him to be crafty.

DeVante Parker - Parker is under contract for next season and was by far the Patriots best boundary receiver in 2022. He wears coverage. But Parker is an absolute bully with the ball in the air. The veteran was the only Pats receiver who consistently made plays from the X spot and made a big difference when healthy. They should hang onto him at a $6.3 million cap hit.

Kendrick Bourne - Ah, the curious case of why didn't Bourne play more this season. There's evidence that Bourne is their most skilled receiver. He gets off the line with good burst, can uncover in his route breaks, wins at the catch point with some consistency, and is a plus ball carrier. His usage came down to mental errors and likely internal bouts with the coaching staff. To say there weren't any reasons for his lack of playing time ignores all the warning signs, but the coaches should've buried the hatchet and gotten one of their best playmakers on the field.

UFA:

Jakobi Meyers (2023 UFA) - For a player to make a mistake as Meyers did in Vegas to have an overwhelmingly positive review still is a testament to Meyers's consistency and professionalism. Meyers is one of the NFL's best separators against man coverage, remains a high IQ zone beater, and is an underrated contested catch receiver in traffic. He might not have the same bursty routes or YAC ability as his slot predecessors, but Meyers can play that role at a starter level. It'll be interesting to see if he prices himself out of New England in free agency.

Nelson Agholor (2023 UFA) - Agholor started the year with what could've been a breakout performance in Week 2, and maybe his usage should've resembled that more (crossers from the slot and condensed splits) rather than playing so much on the boundary. Still, his game leaves much to be desired from a physicality and focus standpoint. The Patriots will likely move on from him this offseason with eyes toward an upgrade.

TE:

Hunter Henry - Henry had another solid season in the passing game. He's a reliable target for Jones, who has good chemistry with the quarterback and was one of the few Pats pass catchers consistently in the right spot. At this stage of his career, he's not running by anyone with great acceleration in his vertical routes. But he can still uncover through the break point and runs the seam well enough to be a threat. It's not his fault that the coaches couldn't get him more involved in the early going. As a run blocker, Henry struggled for most of the year. He's not a great in-line run blocker, which is something the team could target in the draft.

Jonnu Smith - The Patriots aren't getting a good return on their investment with Smith. We all understand that. He was a better in-line run blocker than Henry this season, and his versatility is something that a more creative offensive coordinator could utilize. But his contributions in the passing game are so hyper-specific to his skill set that it's hard to envision Smith ever producing at a high level. The Patriots could use a post-June 1 designation on Smith to get out of the rest of his contract, but they'd still carry his cap hit till June 2. In other words, the odds are the Patriots will have Smith on their roster for the 2023 season.

 

[venecol]

Thanks for the history lesson, but I don't really see what it has to do with my suggestion. Yes. The recent history re WR's here is abysmal. Fine. Can we move on? Right now we have an interesting group, by which I mean that the coaching last year was so awful that we did not get a full look at what they might be and there were a few intriguing moments, interesting in that there is an intriguing wealth of (brace yourself) potential among them. Then there's the protean Mr. Jones. As a group, they warrant a deeper look. Wanna dump a couple? Be my guest. To me, given in particular the need to get a full look at Mac this year, O-Line is the obvious point of emphasis. Given this, I would not waste a high pick on a wr, and in later picks, you ain't gonna get much. If you want a WR, see what you can find trade/free agent, use him, and study what else you have in that room over the course of the season. I would simply make the priority re wr: 1) Forget for a moment about wr's and draft OL help.,2) Pay Jakobi,whatever (whatever) it takes, 3) Keep your eye out for a fun wr later draftpick if you want, but expect little, 4) When 3) doesn't work, buy a vet.

I used to love it when someone would bring out Belichick's scouting notes from the 70s of metrics to look for at different positions (QB, WR, LB, etc.). People would be in awe of the detail of the notes and how they would still apply.

Maybe it's time to update the notes. You think?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Is Tee Higgins much of a playmaker on this offense? He has produced each year he's been in the league, but he does not strike me as someone for whom you have to gameplan. I could be wrong.

I've been ahead of this for a while looking at FA and the draft. Just seemed the way to go and have been discussing in my thread.

Higgins was one of the few names I brought up. He's worth 14 and a 4th.

Never had more than 110 targets but gives you 1K/5/14 per clip. All numbers point to him just needing more targets. Outside guy, X, which we've missed forever now.

It's not likely but not exactly far fetched.

Aiyuk is a other one that just needs more targets. He's someone I'd trade for in a hurry.

I'd do the same for Pittman in Indy as well.

Specifically Pittman and Higgins might give us the most bang for our buck bc we can stick them outside right away.

Thornton is a wildcard in all this too.

 

[venecol]

I've been ahead of this for a while looking at FA and the draft. Just seemed the way to go and have been discussing in my thread.

Higgins was one of the few names I brought up. He's worth 14 and a 4th.

Never had more than 110 targets but gives you 1K/5/14 per clip. All numbers point to him just needing more targets. Outside guy, X, which we've missed forever now.

It's not likely but not exactly far fetched.

Aiyuk is a other one that just needs more targets. He's someone I'd trade for in a hurry.

I'd do the same for Pittman in Indy as well.

Specifically Pittman and Higgins might give us the most bang for our buck bc we can stick them outside right away.

Thornton is a wildcard in all this too.

The problem is those guys won't get more targets here. Meyers only got >110 targets once. This is a run first team. If you were Higgins or Aiyuk, would you want to play for the Patriots?

 

[Toofy]

2024 we are definitely going to see Brandon aiyuk be available for trade . Similarly tee Higgins , Jeudy and few more . Let's not waste cap space this year on another agholor or a wr who is rapidly aging like Julio or Hopkins . Draft highly rated TE and WR and get them playing time on 2023 . Move away from Henry . He is not worth 14 million . Besides Henry will not be there for 2024. Move his snaps to Jonnu and hope he at least perfoems as a mid rung TE.

 

[Thelonious]

I used to love it when someone would bring out Belichick's scouting notes from the 70s of metrics to look for at different positions (QB, WR, LB, etc.). People would be in awe of the detail of the notes and how they would still apply.

Maybe it's time to update the notes. You think?

Probably insensitive or something, but I think the Krafts should have pushed Bill off center stage a while ago when it came to the drafting procedures. By a couple of years ago it had dwindled one guy sitting in a hermetically-sealed tin can, it seemed.