Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[masterbouncer]

he had some struggles covering tight ends in the RZ, it seems harder to me to stick with WR

its a bit different way of playing, when covering TE he is one-on-one from the LoS covering the respective TE/WR with his back to the ball, while as a FS you have the game in front of you, you are more anticipating and reading where the QB throws the ball to while more of cleaning up/supporting the CBs in their coverages and he is a really good open field tacklers, not sure whether he would be bad as FS at all, I think he has the right traits to be a good FS

I like him on the line as well and wondering a bit that they don't use him similar to Hightower/Chung on situational blitzes coming of the edge when he is close to the line, haven't seen a safety blitz in while for the patriots

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

its a bit different way of playing, when covering TE he is one-on-one from the LoS covering the respective TE/WR with his back to the ball, while as a FS you have the game in front of you, you are more anticipating and reading where the QB throws the ball to while more of cleaning up/supporting the CBs in their coverages and he is a really good open field tacklers, not sure whether he would be bad as FS at all, I think he has the right traits to be a good FS

I like him on the line as well and wondering a bit that they don't use him similar to Hightower/Chung on situational blitzes coming of the edge when he is close to the line, haven't seen a safety blitz in while for the patriots

i agree but his role closer to the LOS is really helpful against sceens, east west runs with his speed since our lb are not the fastest
i wonder if peppers could take over this duties fulltime and free dugger to move him to fs

 

[p8ryts]

he had some struggles covering tight ends in the RZ, it seems harder to me to stick with WR

Not asking him to stick with them but stay back and provide a competent double team.

 

[captain stone]

...I can't get that mad at him for being put in a position that he isn't capable of. You can't necessarily expect your 4th or 5th corner to be capable of stepping up and being a #1 corner against dudes like Tyreek Hill, and yet he honestly made some plays even despite that, but generally was overmatched which like, duh, of course he was, it's Myles Bryant.

Do you at least expect him to make an unblocked one-on-one tackle when the returner is running right at him?

Because Space didn't do that either.

Dude's Less Than f ucking Useless... He's a Game-Killer.

 

[captain stone]

Yeah Hayes was signed to a two year deal. He looked fine.

Your definition of Fine must be different than my own.

Mills-Jack Jones-Marcus Jones-Hayes-Bryant could be OK.

No it couldn't be. Not by a dam sight.

 

[captain stone]

I hear ya, though Mills has spent time in camp and elsewhere at safety as well so he can flex a bit.

CB: Jon Jones - Jack Jones - Marcus Jones - drafted CB - Tae Hayes - Myles Bryant
FS: Mills - DMac for 1 year - Duron Harmon - drafted FS
SS: Dugger - Phillips - Peppers - Bledsoe

Some of these are not like the others...

 

[captain stone]

i could see that with a low day 2 or day 3 pick as the drafted CB, but if you put a first rd CB in there (because there are some taller CB in the draft looking really good and maybe available at 14) then it would be too top heavy imo, or at least not the asset allocation regarding priorities.

(Slightly edited version)

After LT & WR1, CB1 is my Top off-season priority:

LT



WR1

CB1


Center of the Future
TE of the Future

Coverage LB
Free Safety
Pass Rusher
Nose Tackle of the Future

3rd-Down RB
Another LT
Slot WR


Axel Hoyer replacement
3-Tech DT

 

[patfanken]

Just read the last 2 pages and it is great to see the off season off and running.

So it looks like we are going to be picking in the middle of each round. So off the top of my head and without ANY study or deep thought about the subject, here are my priorities this off season,

#1 - Its clearly obvious that the OL need to be improved. In my mind that means getting at least 2 new starters from the draft and.or FA -
As far as taking one in the first round, I am ambivalent, IIRC there are 4 OT's currently rated as first round picks and at #14 we can get one of them, HOWEVER the Pats have been able to pick some very good OL in the later rounds (Thuney, Owenu, Andrews, Mason, to name just a few)

#2 - The pass rush is king to being a great defense - We now have 3 guys who are or can be premier rushers. Judon/Uche/Barmore, Judon is truly the guy who can rush and set the edge. Uche can rush, and Barmore is good against the run and decent as a rusher, but can be much more, Jusdon ran out of gas again as his snap counts grew at the end of the year, but was much better than last year. You need multiple guys out their for the season long grind. That being said, I think you can find Uche like guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, so IF we are going high I'd be looking for help up the middle early or thru FA.

#3 CB - Mills is a keeper who unfortunately got hurt at the end of the season. Jack Jones is one too, but obviously bears watching. JJones is a guy I want back, but his role is redundant with MJones here. But attrition is real and you need MULTIPLE guys to do the job so adding a CB high in the draft and also in FA is critical. SIZE does matter at CB these days, but fortunately there are more 6 foot plus CBs than ever. Edmunds would be a great get.

#4 WR. Adams was a good pick up when he's on the field. Aghular sadly was not. He's gone and needs to be replaced. As much as I whiffed on the impact Bourne would have, I still would like to keep him around another year and see what he can do with a new OC.
That being said, good WR prospects are the most plentiful player position out there. I wouldn't use a top pick here, but rather get a raw talent that falls in the later rounds and develop him, and then pick up a more proven talent in FA

I can hardly wait for the superbowl, but not because of the game, with the Pats out I became a casual observer (I watched about 2 hours of the games yesterday), BUT because that's when the off season coaching FA starter and THAT is where the most important aspects of this off season will begin,

 

[AQPE]

After LT, CB1 is my Top off-season priority, ahead of even WR1 which is next.

Me too, they usually have to be drafted except when a Gilmore signing occurs; and that was somewhat of a mixed bag IMHO.

The 14th pick should be used on a player who has the potential to be elite, so this year if a LT (not RT), CB, or WR like that is there you take them. If there are options (say a potentially elite WR and CB) you take the one in the area of greater need except if that particular player’s skill set doesn’t complement the others currently in his position group; for example for the Pats if there is a WR vs CB choice and the CB is better suited for the slot position I think you may want the WR since I think the talent in their WR is more of a need than an upgrade over the current slot corners.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Me too, they usually have to be drafted except when a Gilmore signing occurs; and that was somewhat of a mixed bag IMHO.

The 14th pick should be used on a player who has the potential to be elite, so this year if a LT (not RT), CB, or WR like that is there you take them. If there are options (say a potentially elite WR and CB) you take the one in the area of greater need except if that particular player’s skill set doesn’t complement the others currently in his position group; for example for the Pats if there is a WR vs CB choice and the CB is better suited for the slot position I think you may want the WR since I think the talent in their WR is more of a need than an upgrade over the current slot corners.

Yup there will be one elite player in the LT, WR, CB group in the middle of the 1st round. The key is to identify that player and to take the correct one in that slot. In fact I don't even mind a slight move up if 'the guy' is there. Pats have usually traded down in the 1st, but this type of maneuvering can end up burning you if you miss out on your top tier guy and have to settle for a lower rated guy.

I'm in favor of LT or CB early. I just don't trust the Patriots with drafting WRs anymore. Better to acquire one through trade if available, that way they can't bungle yet another selection.

 

[AQPE]

Agree @VJCPatriot,
but in reference to WRs, I’m hoping for a new direction on offense that makes it easier for WRs to integrate and succeed. The challenge is to do that in balance with the “game plan” approach that is integral to BB’s success.

With that said, my position hasn’t changed since the early part of the season, the OT position is a train wreck, I’d keep Brown only if he can’t be replaced by someone who will play better or at least more consistently, and replace the others. That means coming out of FA with at least 1 and the draft with another 2, with a least 1 of the two in Round 1 or 2.

 

[p8ryts]

Do you at least expect him to make an unblocked one-on-one tackle when the returner is running right at him?

Because Space didn't do that either.

Dude's Less Than f ucking Useless... He's a Game-Killer.

That’s a little harsh, but he needs to be a backup free safety to be of value (imo).

 

[Vindicate]

Since a lot of draft nerds hang out in here (I mean that with endearment), I was wondering something:

For how long has the combine been around?

How often do they "update" the tests? If they haven't/don't, would it make sense to revamp some of these tests to account for how the game is now played?

Things like the 3-cone, 40yd - is there any merit to the idea that the series of tests could be revamped to give a more accurate reading of players, especially mid/late rounders who may not have as much tale-of-tape on their resume?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Since a lot of draft nerds hang out in here (I mean that with endearment), I was wondering something:

For how long has the combine been around?

The NFL Combine has been around since 1982 according to this article. As to how often they update the different athletic tests, who knows. However the main purpose of the combine, besides getting raw physical athletic times down and physical measurements, are actually the medicals and interviews. This is when teams can gauge whether a guy will be a fit and if he has injury risks associated that will push him down their draft board.

Considering that only about 300+ people are invited to the Combine, a lot of other prospects are measured through Pro Day results, which are not as 'reliable' because it's not conducted under the same strict conditions as the Combine. But especially the bigger universities will have scouts attending their pro days. Also the special Bowl Games such as the Senior Bowl present a good opportunity to see these prospects compete head to head against other top rated prospect invitees.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Going to start pumping out some draft thoughts, reports and ideas. Trying to leave the threads in the DF and thoughts and convo here.

Feel comfortable with the top half of the WR class. So ill start there.


JSN (Jaxon Smith-Njigba) is the slot we've been missing since Edleman and a lot more with respect to Jules. He's probably the safest WR in the class and will be WR1 on many boards. His 2021 season is absolutely special - 95/1606/10 and almost 17 per clip. His teammates, Olave and Wilson gush over his abilities and consider him the best among the trio. Just saying those guys were top 11 picks and he looked like the best of the bunch at times. Truthfully I don't believe he'll test as well but that's not a bad thing as long as he's hitting thresholds. I'm sure his 3 cone will be silly.



Natural counter puncher that can get you off off-balance very easily. Will use a variety of releases, mainly stutter variations with narrow and wide footwork but his ability to attack and use leverage to his advantage is pretty impressive. Great job at using tempo - stride length, different speeds off the line into his stem. Everything looks the same for the first few yards until he hits you with a nasty plant or head/shoulder fake. Very clean at the top of his routes. No wasted steps. Offers clean chest to target. Natural hands, soft and usually catches late like most greats. No fight at all catching passes. Catches the ball at the last possible second at times. Strong hands. Will body catch but like other great players he'll guide it into himself. Very nice acceleration and deceleration in/out of his breaks. Nothing choppy or wasted steps.

Wilson was a top 10 pick and certainty killing it but you can see the difference and how smooth JSN is







Lives in corners blindspots for a living. Master manipulater that'll hurt you from the stem and top of his routes. He's constantly putting defenders in the worse possible spot with his IQ and awareness.

Very willing and effective blocker. Every down player that does the small stuff like everyone is watching

Plays very low to the ground with lots of traction on his tires. Very elusive and shifty. Very smooth lateral movement with oily hips. Vision and spatial awareness were apparent early on with him in HS. Running back with the ball in his hands. YAC monster. Plus body control.



Could be slot only but you can target him deep there. Plus tracking ability and concentration. He can stretch the field a little bit vertically. You can see him pulling the strings on routes and putting defenders in places he wants them. Makes them think to cause hesitation and hits their blind spot. I'd love to see him really get rocked up in an NFL training program. I don't think he'll run as well as Wilson but he's got good enough speed for sure. Small sample size outside, faced a lot of nickel/LB/Saf but had some nice reps outside.

Injuries are the only major concern if you're ok with drafting a slot-only guy top 20-40. 90% of his usage and production came from there. Athleticism is there but not overwhelming.

He's a security blanket, instant chain mover with the ability to stretch the field horizontally and vertically to a lesser extent. He's instant quickness and shifty af in the mof. Doesn't need any help getting open. Starting slot/part-time Z. Possibly your best WR by the end of September. Also Brian Hartline is killing it there. He'll be a HC very soon.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Since a lot of draft nerds hang out in here (I mean that with endearment), I was wondering something:

For how long has the combine been around?

How often do they "update" the tests? If they haven't/don't, would it make sense to revamp some of these tests to account for how the game is now played?

Things like the 3-cone, 40yd - is there any merit to the idea that the series of tests could be revamped to give a more accurate reading of players, especially mid/late rounders who may not have as much tale-of-tape on their resume?

Most teams are using and relying on game speed. They're hooking these guys up with stuff and measure everything.

They definitely could tweak some things and get rid of others but 3C, shuttles and jumps are useful to me. I know teams love the game speed though. It's much more accurate and gives you peak times as well.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Quentin Johnston is a physical specimen with track and basketball background. I mean he looks like the prototype you'd create for an X or boundary WR. Proportioned body with somewhere around 33' arms I guess. Should run 4.38-4.44. Shuttles should be plus, hes very sudden. Brokeout SO year. Very explosive prospect who runs very vicious routes. His stop & start, sink in his hips and explosion off the line are something to see. I mean he's a big boy that can move. At times youll see players jump a little off the ground before catching a pass. Theres a few reasons for that.

A)some players use it as a protective sort of thing to really secure the catch they'll jump into it. Trying to get there first, appear bigger.

B)more often they do it to use the ground as platform to explode off. So many use plyo trying its just another way to use it to your advantage. He, like many others will use it.

Very agile movements for a 6'3/215. His lateral movements really stand out at the los, shaking defenders, certain routes. Plus lateral movements for his size. Kills defenders with signature spin move off curls/comebacks. Long speed is shown off on go routes multiple times a game. He can dial up that gas in the 1st or 4th. Gets up to top speed very quick. Vertical capability, outside threat really softens up some of those slants. Mainly runs gos, slants and curls with some designed touches on quick outs. He'll body catch and fight the hell out of the ball at times but he's quite the piece of clay to work with overall. Hands aren't a lost cause but easily 1 or 2 on his list for concerns. He'll come up with some nice rec but also make life way more difficult for himself. pretty good routes but the tree has doesn't have many branches. I've learned plenty of lessons in this area. It's more often bc of the system, QB, OL and other issues rather than a talented prospect not being able to do something. I think he has room to grow there. He constantly tries to get in the corners blindspot or set him up on certain occasions. He definitely has a good "feel" for rr. As mentioned before he's a big dude and knows how to use his size. Contested catches he'll body or use his body control to his advantage. Bracing for hits. Playing above the rim. He's all that.

Clean up the drops, concentration and timing issues and expand his route tree slightly and you have a WR1. At times he'll just do something awkward like extend his arms too much or not enough when he's got plenty of length. Again he makes it tough but he's got so much to work with. Played mostly on the left side so not the most versatile in terms of alignment but I'm not that scared by that.

Starting X with real upside in rr and volume.

One issue I'm looking at looking at believe it or not is Ty Thornton. We already have a top 50 project with a lot riding on his success. Johnston is a stud but absolutely needs real work to hit that peak at the next level. Now the upside is sick. Two 6'3 blazers that can stretch the field. There's a lot of intrigue in that for sure. We have the worst WR corps in the division so it's not a fantasy scenario here. We have to improve that area.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Jalin Hyatt is another one with big-time potential as a deep threat game changer.

Long arms, high cut but does a good job getting low coming out his breaks. Can be a bit inconsistent there. Good stop and start. Powerful hips show off track background which is all over his film. Very fit, fires off powerful long strides. Extremely light on his feet. 10.46 100m and 21.14 200m in HS and set records playing WR at 150lbs. He floats doesn't run and has a bounce to him when cuts and moves. Very explosive, sudden athlete. Should run 4.3 - 4.35. Averaged almost 20 per clip this year (18.9) and tore up Alabama for 200 + yards/ 5 TD. I like his instincts and awareness on the field. Specifically tracking live balls, adjusting to coverage in live action, timing up routes for big plays. He has some real work when it comes to rr but he's really good at what he's does well. Soft hands that receive the ball, no fight, good concentration on some big plays. Release package could use some work although he did show some nice lateral movements. Lots of bigs plays of busted coverage but he made them and quite a few more. Don't think he'll ever be true WR1 in terms of volume but again what he does well, he does very well. He's one of these guys you really don't want to see on Buffalo, Chargers, KC etc for obvious reasons but those QB'S can truly help him specifically hit that peak bc of top end speed and array of weapons they already have.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Again these arent so much full scouting reports as some thoughts gathered so ask any questions you want. If i havent covered something. Want to focus on space with Jordan Addison. Who is a very solid chess piece you can move around anywhere - Z, Slot, Backfield, Motion. You want to move him around in fact to take advantage of certain matchups, speed and size on defenders and who plays what. Back to space though. He's a nightmare in space. And it's not necessarily his speed. I doubt he runs sub 4.4 at 170-175 so he's not a true burner even though he can run. He's got some great instincts and feel for what to do in space. His rr is filled with keys and highlights you'd want to show young receivers. He's not the biggest or fastest but his pacing and use of tempo kill defenders along with his body fakes. His stride length & speed combined with his IQ allow him to turn defenders around, end up in their blindspots and a few yards away from them. Very good at looking a few steps ahead, what a defender wants to do and use the situation to his advantage. Played 75% slot and Z at Pitt and USC. Twitch and shake allow him to win against man. Very quick in/out of breaks. Plus COD to help him out. IQ, pacing and speed allow him to win against off/zone. Hes made some fantastic rec and doesnt hide his hands. Plus vision, RB with the ball in his hands. Plus effort blocking as well. Size is a concern. I've seen him have trouble against physical corners with quick feet. Guys who are comfortable at the los, using the sidelines. Like Hyatt I doubt he's ever a true WR1 but he's a real weapon who's ready to make an impact Day 1.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Roles and Comps

Quentin Johnston - Starting X but matchup advantages elsewhere. Don't have anyone like him but he needs real development to hit that peak. Still might be our best WR day 1.

Comp - cross between Tee Higgins Robert Meachem


JSN - is the true slot we've been missing since Wes, Jules, Danny. Very elusive and shifty and smart. Somewhat limited ceiling in terms of role/usage but high floor. Very safe pick

Comp - cross between Randall Cobb and Robert Woods

Jalin Hyatt - competing for starting Z, deep slot.

Comp - cross between Will Fuller and Marquise Goodwin

Jordan Addison - Starting slot, part-time Z with some manipulated touches.

Comp - cross between Richie James and not as fast Darnell Mooney.