Reiss: Jack Jones and Jake Bailey moved to "Reserve/Suspended"

[Family]

Which Jones?

Which Jones is this thread about?

 

[archstanton543]

Sure, but by this standard, theres about 25 rebuilding teams in the league...At some point, they are just teams that arent that good or are just missing a generational quarterback. Those are rare to find

That's correct. There are about 7 teams that aren't "rebuilding" right now. They're all in the top seeds of the playoffs. Most of the other teams are trending upwards or downwards as they rebuild. The Pats, unfortunately, are trending downwards.

 

[venecol]

The one who plays the position Dennard did I safely assume.

There's three. It was a bad joke. Lol

 

[All3Phases]

That's correct. There are about 7 teams that aren't "rebuilding" right now. They're all in the top seeds of the playoffs. Most of the other teams are trending upwards or downwards as they rebuild. The Pats, unfortunately, are trending downwards.

I just dont consider all these teams rebuilding, as I see that as an excuse...If you turnover your roster from 1 year to the next...Sure, but at this point, they have a good roster which a highly drafted quarterback. They just arent that good as a team right now.

Also, if the standard for a rebuild is looking for your great quarterback, wouldnt the team need to be actually looking/taking action on finding that yearly?

 

[archstanton543]

I just dont consider all these teams rebuilding, as I see that as an excuse...If you turnover your roster from 1 year to the next...Sure, but at this point, they have a good roster which a highly drafted quarterback. They just arent that good as a team right now.

Also, if the standard for a rebuild is looking for your great quarterback, wouldnt the team need to be actually looking/taking action on finding that yearly?

Players, especially young QB's improve (or not), year over year, do they not? The answer at the QB position isn't to shotgun draft picks at it (some teams take that approach but it rarely works out). It takes time for players at that position to grow into it at the NFL level...usually three years. Sometimes four.

 

[All3Phases]

Players, especially young QB's improve (or not), year over year, do they not? The answer at the QB position isn't to shotgun draft picks at it (some teams take that approach but it rarely works out). It takes time for players at that position to grow into it at the NFL level...usually three years. Sometimes four.

They could, do you think they know what they have in Mac? Youre saying theyre rebuilding, you must know/implying hes not the guy...Why dont they continue to look? You cant say every team without an Allen/Mahomes is rebuilding, because those guys simply are almost impossible to find

 

[archstanton543]

They could, do you think they know what they have in Mac? Youre saying theyre rebuilding, you must know/implying hes not the guy...Why dont they continue to look? You cant say every team without an Allen/Mahomes is rebuilding, because those guys simply are almost impossible to find

I never said Mac wasn't "the guy". He might be. He was set up to fail this year and fail he did.

I am saying that he still needs time to develop under a real QB coach and OC. I mean, look at the leap Daniel Jones took for the Giants this year with a proper offensive minded coach (and who was the coach that got fired before Dabol took over. I'll hang up and listen). Coaching matters and bad coaching can stunt a player's development.

I'm sure the Pats will do their due diligence and kick the tires on all the QB prospects in the draft. If they do pick up a QB, they'll be ignoring other needs on the team with later draft picks (like, say kicker and punter not to mention OL depth guys).

Also, I never said that teams without Allen and Mahomes aren't rebuilding. 30 teams don't have those guys playing for them. C'mon, man. You don't need an elite QB to win in this league. You can with with a Top 10 QB (or even one on the fringes of that).

 

[All3Phases]

I never said Mac was "the guy". He might be. He was set up to fail this year and fail he did.

I didnt say you said he was "the guy". I meant, that you saying theyre rebuilding is implying they dont have "the guy"

I am saying that he still needs time to develop under a real QB coach and OC. I mean, look at the leap Daniel Jones took for the Giants this year with a proper offensive minded coach (and who was the coach that got fired before Dabol took over. I'll hang up and listen). Coaching matters and bad coaching can stunt a player's development.

I dont disagree, how many people are calling the 49ers rebuilding for example?

I'm sure the Pats will do their due diligence and kick the tires on all the QB prospects in the draft. If they do pick up a QB, they'll be ignoring other needs on the team with later draft picks (like, say kicker and punter not to mention OL depth guys).

Every team has needs, the greatness of a quarterback definitely helps cover up those weaknesses for sure...But again, if we are holding out for teams to get Allen/Mahomes/Brady/Rodgers, etc...Then we will be waiting for a while

Also, I never said that teams without Allen and Mahomes aren't rebuilding. 30 teams don't have those guys playing for them. C'mon, man. You don't need an elite QB to win in this league. You can with with a Top 10 QB (or even one on the fringes of that).

Sure, but the history shows that Hall of Fame quarterbacks are the ones winning the super bowls with their teams. Again, if youre searching for a franchise qb, what are you implying? Are you happy with Cousins? Goff? Mac? What level of franchise qb are you looking for?

 

[archstanton543]

I didnt say you said he was "the guy". I meant, that you saying theyre rebuilding is implying they dont have "the guy"

You're reading way too much into my comment.

Here, let's try another mind reading experiment, I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 100. Tell me which number I'm thinking of.

I dont disagree, how many people are calling the 49ers rebuilding for example?

I dunno. I don't follow the San Fran fanbase or media.

Every team has needs, the greatness of a quarterback definitely helps cover up those weaknesses for sure...But again, if we are holding out for teams to get Allen/Mahomes/Brady/Rodgers, etc...Then we will be waiting for a while

I don't know who's sitting here waiting for generational talent at the QB position to manifest on the Pats. Mac (with proper coaching and development and improvements to the OL), is the right caliber of player a team can win with. And, yes, he still has to show improvement next season. It's an important season because next season, the Pats are going to have to decide to pick up his option or not. If they don't, that will tell you all you need to know. If they do, that will tell you something too.

Sure, but the history shows that Hall of Fame quarterbacks are the ones winning the super bowls with their teams. Again, if youre searching for a franchise qb, what are you implying? Are you happy with Cousins? Goff? Mac? What level of franchise qb are you looking for?

I just said a Top 10 QB or one of the fringes.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

am saying that he still needs time to develop under a real QB coach and OC. I mean, look at the leap Daniel Jones took for the Giants this year with a proper offensive minded coach (and who was the coach that got fired before Dabol took over. I'll hang up and listen). Coaching matters and bad coaching can stunt a player's development.

Jones took a leap and it’s still not good enough. The Giants aren’t going anywhere with him at QB and Daboll will get rid of him the first chance he gets.

Mac is not the problem but he is not the solution either. The Patriots aren’t winning anything significant with him at QB IMO.

Bill really screwed things over this year because normally when you enter year 3 you know what you have and it’s the moment where you decide to invest money to make a push for your young QB on a rookie contract like for Tua and Hurts.

Now what do you do if you are the pats ? We are entering year 3 and we don’t know if Mac is the guy. Do you invest draft capital and cap space to sign or trade for star pieces ? But if Mac is not the guy you found yourself with and expensive talented team And no QB to lead it. But in the other end, if you don’t, it’s more difficult to evaluate Mac.

I know people will not like it but another way of doing it, it’s to bring a known veteran QB like Jimmy G or someone else and bring talent around that guy. It might be safer doing it that way.

 

[All3Phases]

You're reading way too much into my comment.

Here, let's try another mind reading experiment, I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 100. Tell me which number I'm thinking of.

No thanks

I dunno. I don't follow the San Fran fanbase or media.

I don't know who's sitting here waiting for generational talent at the QB position to manifest on the Pats. Mac (with proper coaching and development and improvements to the OL), is the right caliber of player a team can win with. And, yes, he still has to show improvement next season. It's an important season because next season, the Pats are going to have to decide to pick up his option or not. If they don't, that will tell you all you need to know. If they do, that will tell you something too.

We arent disagreeing on Mac, im just not going to say every team without a great quarterback is rebuilding...Especially the teams not looking to upgrade theirs yearly

I just said a Top 10 QB or one of the fringes.

Right, so in your opinion, is a team like the 49ers rebuilding? Theyve gone through 3 quarterbacks this season, they have no idea what they have in Lance, Jimmy isnt their long term answer and Purdy is 7th round rookie...Again I think my point is, because theyre good, people wont say theyre rebuilding and they arent, just that we gives these teams a long leash with that term

 

[archstanton543]

I know people will not like it but another way of doing it, it’s to bring a known veteran QB like Jimmy G or someone else and bring talent around that guy.

Jimmy G is not walking through that door.

If they do sign a vet it's going to be someone to hold a clipboard (or, I guess, tablet these days).

 

[archstanton543]

No thanks

We arent disagreeing on Mac, im just not going to say every team without a great quarterback is rebuilding...Especially the teams not looking to upgrade theirs yearly

Right, so in your opinion, is a team like the 49ers rebuilding? Theyve gone through 3 quarterbacks this season, they have no idea what they have in Lance, Jimmy isnt their long term answer and Purdy is 7th round rookie...Again I think my point is, because theyre good, people wont say theyre rebuilding and they arent, just that we gives these teams a long leash with that term

This is going to be my last post on this here because we are way off topic and you're being unreasonable.

Yes, the 49'ers are rebuilding.

Now, if you want to talk about Bailey's or Jones' suspension I'd be willing to do that.

 

[All3Phases]

This is going to be my last post on this here because we are way off topic and you're being unreasonable.

Not being unreasonable at all

Yes, the 49'ers are rebuilding.

Thats fair, at least youre consistent

Now, if you want to talk about Bailey's or Jones' suspension I'd be willing to do that.

 

[h0c2000]

Besides Michael Bennett, I can't recall a starting player ever being suspended by the team. Now there's 2? Bailey won't be back is clear but I wonder if they try to trade Jack Jones now too.

On the bright side, Matt Araiza's a FA.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Yes, the 49'ers are rebuilding.

No they aren’t. The 49ers are in a win now situation.

 

[archstanton543]

No they aren’t. The 49ers are in a win now situation.

I'm just trying to placate a guy who clearly needs another cup or coffee or needs to switch to decaf. I haven't decided yet.

But enough about that. How 'bout them suspensions?

 

[All3Phases]

I'm just trying to placate a guy who clearly needs another cup or coffee or needs to switch to decaf. I haven't decided yet.

Dont forget you responded to my post, and we were having a normal conversation based on your response

But enough about that. How 'bout them suspensions?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Besides Michael Bennett, I can't recall a starting player ever being suspended by the team. Now there's 2? Bailey won't be back is clear but I wonder if they try to trade Jack Jones now too.

On the bright side, Matt Araiza's a FA.

Terry Glenn

Deaderick started a few as well.

Other players were deactivated for various infractions over the years.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

How 'bout them suspensions?

With the J Jones comments from his agents I think this one is probably warranted. I think the Bailey one is Bill trying to get out of a bad contract.