Game Day Thread Official Post Game Day Thread- Pats beat the Jets

[Real fan 02]

You will see.

More Mac Ints, sacks and fumbles are in your future.

Not if Hunter Henry gets move involved..

 

[upstater1]

Here is a still photo from the failed 4th-and-1 attempt late in the 2nd quarter.

I'm not QB guru but it sure seems Henry is open for a 1st down if the ball was delivered to him on time. Jones' doesn't appear to be looking in the right place.

Henry seems to be a legitimate receiving option on this play given how he's entering his route and looks to be getting his head around to the QB (I only bring this up because I saw it debated earlier if Henry was setting up to block here or if he was actually an option to pass the ball to. Again, I'm not a coach, but it sure seems Henry is a viable receiving option on this play).

That is not what I said.

I didn't say Henry is setting up to block here.

I said once Mac started moving upfield he is blocking.

Watch this on replay in motion and you'll see the big problem with play design on this play.

The timing is off because Mac is doing RPO, and by the time he sees the spy and realizes he can't run, Henry has already completed his route and he's by the sideline. If the play design was to look for an open Henry immediately as first option, that's one thing. But the easiest way to get a yard there is for Mac to run it. Once that is taken away, you have wide open space for an easy TD as the spy commits to Mac. And what happened? Jakobi is running toward the LOS, Henry is blocking, and there's wide open space behind both of them. That's an easy TD. Why was the play designed that way? It's bad.

Watch it on replay in motion instead of this freeze frame and you'll see the timing is off.

 

[Triumph]

The Pat's have a really good team

Defensive backfield is solid. Great running game. Plenty of adequete recievers. The OL is good enough.

I hope the team does not revolt sticking with a Loser at QB. Ints, fumbling and taking sacks costing the team wins.

 

[Rob0729]

@Rob0729 has repeatedly tried to pass off opinion as fact. Made lazy, lazy arguments towards the QB discussion that add nothing but filler to the topic and obviously is bias when talking about the QB position.

Constantly trying to frame it as Mac is being set up to fail. It's bs and casual nonsense you'd probably hear on talk radio.

Thats fine if he wants to do that but theres also nothing wrong with calling it what it is. I mean I'm not going after him personally. I'm saying the quality and stuff he post is garbage. It's not personal man.

Why does it bother you if someone thinks you or someone else is a bad poster?

Like I mentioned above you have repeatedly tried to pass off opinion as fact regarding this topic and made lazy arguments towards the subject. Many people have noticed this I'm sorry if it bothers you but it's been happening.

I'm definitely not trying to speak for anyone. Apologies if it came off that way. Just giving my opinion. I'm wrong a lot and could be here.

LOL! I have repeatedly stated the narrative that Patricia is calling plays to set up Jones to fail is stupid and wrong. I have said that Patricia calls the offense the way he ideally wants the offense to run with Jones despite not having the proper talent to run those plays and that, most likely because Zappe is an inexperience rookie, Patricia calls plays to put Zappe in a position to succeed. But that changed in the second half of the Bears game where he stopped call play action all together or letting Zappe line up under center and threw him exclusively in the shotgun.

But I get why you don't respect me. You are just too stupid to read. Maybe I will just dumb down my posts so you can follow along.

 

[catent]

I mean, when every.single.darn.mistake Jones makes is chalked up to some combination of OL play, play-calling, or coaching, and never Jones himself - and I mean every.single.one - it's hard not to see the obvious bias with some posters.

Of course Jones' play is contingent on others. Of course the OL hasn't been great. Yes, there is a somewhat new offensive structure in place. But you don't have to look far to see Jones playing poorly despite all of that.

Pocket awareness is lacking, footwork and pocket mobility (the ability to move subtly to create a bit more time/space) is lacking, this leads to a lack of timing and rhythm, which then have a trickle down impact on his mechanics, causing poor throws, soft throws lacking zip. And none of that touches on his ability to see the field and make good, decisive decisions, which has also been an issue. All of these were present yesterday (although a bit better than they had been on the balance of the season, but not consistently better, the bad habits still came out).

I laud Jones for the mental and physical toughness he showed yesterday. Beyond that, he didn't play the QB position particularly well, at all.

 

[Real fan 02]

The Pat's have a really good team

Defensive backfield is solid. Great running game. Plenty of adequete recievers. The OL is good enough.

I hope the team does not revolt sticking with a Loser at QB. Ints, fumbling and taking sacks costing the team wins.

Agreed, if they can make the playoffs again it would be impressive given all the weird things that have happened this season... we would be doing this with no all pro level players outside of judon..

 

[Real fan 02]

The old Mac sucks axx, but who would you draft?

There is no one in the draft that I see, I'll take Mac any day, the kids potential is far from being reached..

 

[Rob0729]

I mean, when every.single.darn.mistake Jones makes is chalked up to some combination of OL play, play-calling, or coaching, and never Jones himself - and I mean every.single.one - it's hard not to see the obvious bias with some posters.

Of course Jones' play is contingent on others. Of course the OL hasn't been great. Yes, there is a somewhat new offensive structure in place. But you don't have to look far to see Jones playing poorly despite all of that.

Pocket awareness is lacking, footwork and pocket mobility (the ability to move subtly to create a bit more time/space) is lacking, this leads to a lack of timing and rhythm, which then have a trickle down impact on his mechanics, causing poor throws, soft throws lacking zip. And none of that touches on his ability to see the field and make good, decisive decisions, which has also been an issue. All of these were present yesterday (although a bit better than they had been on the balance of the season, but not consistently better, the bad habits still came out).

I laud Jones for the mental and physical toughness he showed yesterday. Beyond that, he didn't play the QB position particularly well, at all.

Except that isn't happening. I think most of the people defending Jones has been pointing that he wasn't playing well at least at times during this game. I blame for the pick six that was overturned. I think he made some questionable decisions and hesistancy he had (mostly in the first half for the latter).

But to not acknowledge that the offensive line was awful yesterday and Patricia isn't a good OC when discussing Jones is the same exact thing you are accusing people that defend Jones of. I mean Strange was so bad that he was benched for Wynn who hasn't played guard in like three years.

 

[Real fan 02]

Quick question for all the moaners and Mac haters -
Do you feel better this morning or last Tuesday morning?
We're too used to thinking the Jets are worthless and we should crush them by 30 every time we play.
Their D is legit. Our O is going through growing pains.
Be happy we went into NY and got a much needed divisional win to get back to .500, and Mac is much better than Wilson.
Moving on!

Preach!! That jets front is probably the best they're going to see all season.. Even better than Buffalo.. I think Allen is in trouble next week facing a pissed of jets d... however everything you stated was spot on!

 

[Sicilian]

Late to this party, but it is really disappointing how much vitriol posters have towards one another here. Especially after a win, regardless of how the win might have "felt" to some. I'm not immune to this either. I think we all need to take a few breaths and remember why we like football. Beating the Jets on the road should be good for at least 24 hours of happiness, and certainly shouldn't result in personal insults and people arguing against other posters, rather than against that poster's arguments.

 

[upstater1]

It was an interception that was called back due to RTP. Hence the phrase "the INT that wasn't".

You seriously take issue with my phrasing, or feel it's unfair to Jones? Really?

I completely disagree. I think you're getting way too defensive over how that was described. I would put it the exact same way had the QB's name been anything other than "Jones", too.

Called back turnovers happen all the time.

If you go to the game thread, you'll see me saying that was a horrendous decision by Jones.

Belaboring this as an INT that should've counted against him is, yes, bad. And worse are the people questioning the flag.

Why am I saying this? Because this happens every week, flags overturn turnovers, and it's just not held against players when it happens, even if it was a poor decision or throw.

 

[ashley]

@captain stone will appreciate this performance by one of his favorite players, Isaiah Wynn, and as you can see from the below clip, this is not pretty and almost got Mac killed:

 

[upstater1]

You do realize that it is recognized that Zappe has a weaker arm than Jones?

It's even worse than this.

I don't think Zappe can make NFL throws. That's my main problem with him.

But... Zappe has some functional advantages over Mac. He sets better, has better mechanics, and that gives his throws more zip, which is all that really matters in the end. I don't care how strong your arm is if you don't have a proper base and good mechanics. A guy with half your arm will throw with much better velocity if he moves better in the pocket, sets better, has a quicker release.

My problem in all of this is that Mac can make throws that Zappe can't, that Mac has much better accuracy (and you can see that on a few throws even yesterday), and that Zappe's good plays from this year speak to a limited sample against some weak defenses when he was playing from in front. Over the course of the season, he'd be exposed the way Mac has been.

At the end of the day, Mac must develop, must get his mechanics set, or we have no QB at all.

My big fear is that Patricia is incapable of getting this offense to the place where it needs to be.

 

[Nunchucks]

Late to this party, but it is really disappointing how much vitriol posters have towards one another here. Especially after a win, regardless of how the win might have "felt" to some. I'm not immune to this either. I think we all need to take a few breaths and remember why we like football. Beating the Jets on the road should be good for at least 24 hours of happiness, and certainly shouldn't result in personal insults and people arguing against other posters, rather than against that poster's arguments.

Zappe love and Mac hatred had made people lose their minds. I thought this was a posy game discussion thread.

 

[Rob0729]

@captain stone will appreciate this performance by one of his favorite players, Isaiah Wynn and as you can see from the below clip, this is not pretty:

In fairness to Wynn, most of the o-line got pushed back right into Jones. It was awful protection all around. Wynn just may have been the worst of a really bad bunch on that play.

 

[upstater1]

No one hates Mac save for one or two crazies. I suspect the problem they have is the same ones I've been talking about since before the draft. Mechanics, post snap processing and arm talent equalling up to an average QB. And you simply aren't winning with average or "good enough" at the QB position.

I'm absolutely happy we won but it's easy to look around at the landscape and see the potential problems ahead. It's not about style points or beating the jete by a certain #. It's having an honest conversation about Mac and if he's good enough to be an elite QB. Those conversations aren't easy at times and it gets uncomfortable but we should be able to have them without drawing sides and teams.

What are you seeing that has Zappe with better arm talent than Mac?

I don't see that at all.

I see a guy who flutters long balls and is wildly inaccurate.

He is very good at processing, getting his mechanics right, compact delivery, and putting zip on those short throws.

But we're going nowhere with him.

 

[ashley]

In fairness to Wynn, most of the o-line got pushed back right into Jones. It was awful protection all around. Wynn just may have been the worst of a really bad bunch on that play.

Agree Rob, most of the line was bad on that play but Wynn was like a high schooler going against an all pro on that play, just no chance...In fact I think I could have put up more resistance than he did there. It kind of looked like he was playing on a sheet of ice getting ready to fall down.

 

[upstater1]

Constantly trying to frame it as Mac is being set up to fail. It's bs and casual nonsense you'd probably hear on talk radio.

I think we're mixing up arguments here.

There's the argument that the Patriots are purposely making Mac look bad for nefarious reasons (which is laughable to the extreme).

And then there's the argument that Patricia is doing a bad job at designing plays to put this offense in optimal positions.

Both can mean Mac is being set up to fail. But one argument says this is intentional, while the other one says it's a result of coaching ineptitude.

 

[Rob0729]

Agree Rob, most of the line was bad on that play but Wynn was like a high schooler going against an all pro on that play, just no chance...In fact I think I could have put up more resistance than he did there. It kind of looked like he was playing on a sheet of ice getting ready to fall down.

Don't sell yourself short Ashley, you look mighty strong in your avatar.

 

[Bill Lee]

No they are not. Have you gone over to their boards? They want to play Mike White.

I actually went over there to see if they had given up on him yet, or were clinging to some false hope. Seems most realize he's a bust.











Source: Zach Press Conference after Pats game

And Zach Wilson is proof that poor coaching can ruin a QB with raw talent. What is most wrong with Wilson is/was correctable with the right coaching staff. They need to teach him patience in the pocket and not get all sped up the first sign of trouble. The way you do that is by designing plays where he gets rid of the ball quickly and gets a rhythm. The Jets are asking him to throw down the field a lot (at least they do when they rely on him to be a big part of the offense). They don't do that with him.

I have no idea if Wilson could be a good QB with a good OC. But the Jets ruined the guy from the start. So we will never know unless he does a Gino Smith somewhere else. There are some parallels with what Patricia is doing with Jones.

Indeed.

Can you imagine this board if we used the #3 overall pick on a QB, Darnold, ruined him, then used the #2 overall pick on a QB, Wilson, and ruined him too?

It seemed obvious to me that Wilson was not NFL-ready coming out of college and that da Jete had an all-new staff in place that had no experience developing a raw quarterback so it was obvious they were taking a big risk. You have a young kid full of himself and a young coaching staff that knows it needs wins or it will get fired. Not a formula for success.