Paul Perillo Made an Excellent Point on Mac vs. Zappe

[Actual Pats Fan]

A fact you miss, BGC is the TO margins over the last 2 games, EIGHT. as well as the 4th down stops (8 in the last 2 games) Those are numbers Mac didn't have in those first 3 game when the Pats had only a couple of TO's

The announcers made an interesting stat after one of Jacobi's fumbles. He mentioned, IIRC, something like, the NFL has had 37 fumbles this year where last year there were only 17 at this point of the season. If true, its kind of interesting and perhaps one of the reasons you could have made a LOT of money playing the under so fare this season.

It's simply a fact to me that who the quarterback is, and what he does and how he plays, has a profound effect on the defense and special teams. His leadership, confidence and clutch play is as infectious for his teammates as it is for us fans watching.

It also affects the opponent's strategy, attitude and play.

When a defense sees that the offense is making the most of their drives, doing everything they can not just to score but protect the ball and take as much pressure off the defense as they can, they see that, appreciate it and are more focused (and fresh) to make plays.

We got some guys banged up yesterday, so that has to be handled in preparation for Monday night.

 

[Captain Cliche]

I think Mac was forcing things and thinking too much.
His accuracy was off, which should be his strong point.

This is a nice little reset.
Patricia was forcing a new system and working on his play calling. Mac was pressing. Zappe comes in and they simplify things a little.
Now they can fold in more downfield dynamic plays at a more moderate pace. Everyone was trying to do too much too soon.
If Mac continues to be a turnover machine, he gets a timeout.

I was never a big Hoyer fan. He is non-clutch and taking up a roster spot at this point. They already have a QB coach.
Zappe's a credible backup minimum.
I hate to quote Curran, but they can continue to take late round flyers on developmental QB's.
They just won 2 games with their starting QB out. It's a nice situation to be in.

 

[catent]

No he doesn't get out of plays. I haven't seen him give the "alert," once. (Tapping the helmet with both hands).

A majority of his plays have been one-read plays.

He is only identifying the mike for protection purpose; he hasn't changed protection because he saw a free rusher open up or rolled to the line (although to be fair, Mac still has a problem doing this).

Clips 4, 5, 6 appear to be simple mike IDs.
Clip 2 he appears to "alert" to potential blitzer off the edge
Clip 3 he appears to ID the mike and then also "alert" to potential blitzer by pointing towards someone on the edge
Not sure what all is going on in clip 1. Mike ID and then some funky stuff.

 

[patfanken]

It's simply a fact to me that who the quarterback is, and what he does and how he plays, has a profound effect on the defense and special teams. His leadership, confidence and clutch play is as infectious for his teammates as it is for us fans watching.

It also affects the opponent's strategy, attitude and play.

Maybe if the QB is Tom Brady or PMahomes and Allen. But I think the QB being the end all and be all is WAY over rated. There have been many really good QB's who haven't had the TEAM success.

Listen we have all been affected by the Tom Brady Cult. I understand that having a GOAT QB, who was here for 20 years can have that kind of effect on people. But the FACT remains that on EVERY offensive play, the success of that play is dependent 10 other guys.

I guess you can make the point that the QB is the most important player on offense since he and the C are the only guys who touch the ball on every play. I'd agree to that. But I'm afraid that the media's cult of the individual player has created the myth that one guy can make or break a team and a lot of fans have bought it. But football doesn't work that way and that is why we love it, because of all the pro sports teams, FOOTBALL is the one sport where the individual's success is so dependent to so many OTHER people, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

A fact you miss, BGC is the TO margins over the last 2 games, EIGHT. as well as the 4th down stops (8 in the last 2 games) Those are numbers Mac didn't have in those first 3 games when the Pats had only a couple of TO's.

Young inexperienced QB's, especially back ups who don't get many snaps in practice, EVENTUALLY hit a wall. Yesterday the Dallas QB, who hadn't thrown a pick in 5 games, threw 3 against Philly. The Superbowl MVP has 8 picks already, but ironically has a 71% completion rate which is by FAR the best of his career, so stats can be selective depending on the narrative you want to say.

I didn't miss or forget about the TO or 4th down stops, Ken. Sure they might have benefited Mac and gave him more opportunities but they weren't the reason he's got multiple TO worthy plays a game. It's football, there's other factors involved that shape an individual outcome but the fact that we've had more TO recently doesn't mean Mac would have played the position any better. They wouldnt have stopped him from bad decision making, poor passes and mechanics. Even with an offense that's not as open in terms of the playbook. Mac hasn't looked good and if we're being objective he hasn't looked good for a minute now. Dating back to last year. That rookie wall you brought up stopped Mac in his tracks and looked like it was still lingering this year.

I'm not going overboard on Zappe at all even though I've been following him before Big Bill. He's been serviceable to good for an NFL QB. It's just I'm also objective about Mac. At his best he was an average NFL QB last year. Promising for a rookie but certainly spectacular. Like for all the optimism, fact remains we haven't seen special or anything close to it from Mac. So I'm not married to either. I think it's crazy for anyone to be at this point. Both have been here for an hour and a half and neither has shown any real special traits.

I personally believe Bill will give Mac the job back no matter what. He's just a safe > sorry guy whether it's coaching or front office.

 

[patfanken]

Clips 4, 5, 6 appear to be simple mike IDs.
Clip 2 he appears to "alert" to potential blitzer off the edge
Clip 3 he appears to ID the mike and then also "alert" to potential blitzer by pointing towards someone on the edge
Not sure what all is going on in clip 1. Mike ID and then some funky stuff.

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Interesting stuff, though I wish you had let the play, play out. For the record, a pop warner QB could point out the Mike vs Cleveland on these play. To my mind I'm thinking that a LOT of Zappe's seeming command of the offense comes down to good coaching and good preparation. He should get ALL the credit for his execution. But to my mind, the fact we seem to have a LOT more open receivers the last few games should be laid at the feet of the coaches who are scheming those routes, AND perhaps some weaker defenses of the teams we played

I really don't want to be seen as someone who is demeaning what Zappe has accomplished. For a low pick rookie 3rd string QB who wasn't supposed to play this year, it's been spectacular. But the fact remains that the Pats aren't going to average 4 TO's a game, or four 4th down stops.

I want to see a healthy Mac (GOD we have WAY too many freakin' Jones' on this team) get some of the same advantages and see if he can play as well as we saw him last year. Christ maybe you want to bring back Hoyer as the starter after all in his one drive of the year, he marched the team down for easy FG. Why can't we be happy that we stumbled on another good young QB. Given the number of QB's that have gone down this year, even WITH all the protections they get, it should be nice that we might have great QB for the next decade.

 

[sambam94]

Zappe played against the freaken Lions and Browns and played with the lead. Mac is way ahead of Zappe and will be the starter as soon as he is healthy. Yes, Zappe looked OK, but jeez, tap the darn brakes.

 

[VrabelJr]

I personally believe Bill will give Mac the job back no matter what. He's just a safe > sorry guy whether it's coaching or front office.

That has to be the first time BB has ever been referred to as a "safe rather than sorry" type of coach/GM. BB makes in game decisions such as 4th & 2 or UDFA rookie Malcolm Butler as the inside leverage corner on a goal line stand in the Super Bowl, personnel decisions like trading Richard Seymour or turning a former college wrestler Stephen Neal into an NFL guard, and draft decisions like Cole Strange, Jamie Collins, and others that make most football pundits thinks he's some eccentric contrarian out thinking himself. That is, until said pundits see the results.

BB's process is why he's such a divisive coach among football players. The players that feel entitled and want star treatment they've always received since high school or younger can't stand him. BB is incredibly calculated. He plays the best prepared football players on a weekly basis. That's it.

 

[Wozzy]

He was also trying to bring them back, especially against the Ravens. I’m not excusing the Int’s, but context is important. As far as the offense goes it is clearly a work in progress on every level, from coaching to QB and every unit on it. The run game is looking good, but the OL has to cut the penalties out. The passing game is improving, but still a long way from where it will need to to seriously compete in the playoffs. And both QB’s have to keep improving, and I think the competition will push that going forward.

It was 14-13 at the half, the Pats scored first coming out of the tunnel… then Mac fell completely apart.

There was nothing to come back from at that point except the hole he kept digging for himself by turning the ball over.

 

[Jlaff]

Tom E Curran has been preaching this since "zappe fever" started. Zappe has been great. But it's recency bias. Mac Jones looked just as good last year.

I have recency bias with how below average Mac looked this year.

 

[rochrist]

And yet Mac Jones is getting his job back when he's healthy. Probably will make his debut next Monday night.

What does that tell you about what the coaches think?

It tells me we have no idea who will play next Monday. The Patriots certainly haven't given out any hints.

 

[Bill Lee]

Per Curran's opinion. I have not seen anyone (Curran included) unequivocally state, "per my sources, Jones is the starter". He said "I think", and "can't imagine". He's speculating based on his own opinion, which is worth about as much as yours and mine.

I listened to the Curran/Perry podcast after the DET game and Phil asked an unnamed coach if Zappe could take Mac's job and he said that coach just laughed. Single-sourced anonymous media guy report, but that's what he said.

Maybe this is what he was alluding to when he wrote:

There is no quarterback controversy in New England. Mention of that particular phrase was met with laughter at One Patriot Place on Sunday. When Mac Jones is healthy, he'll be the starter.

Source: Perry's Report Card: Zappe's recall impresses Belichick, teammates

Some more recent words from Perry from yesterday before the game poo-pooing the notion of a QB controversy:

Perry: People in NFL don't see Zappe beating out Mac Jones

Phil Perry breaks down what he’s hearing from league sources about how opinions have or haven’t changed about Bailey Zappe in recent weeks.

www.nbcsports.com

He says league people think Zappe has (EDIT noticeable limitations and projects as a career backup.

EDIT: It wouldn't be the first time such people were wrong, but as of right now, it looks like it's still Mac's job to lose.

 

[rochrist]

He says league people think Zappe has lots of limitations and projects as a career backup.

To be fair, there were a fair number of people LAST year who were saying the same thing about Mac.

 

[Bill Lee]

To be fair, there were a fair number of people LAST year who were saying the same thing about Mac.

True, he was just saying where he thought league opinion was currently about Zappe.

To be a bit more precise, in the last video Perry said Zappe was thought of as being a "high level backup".

IIRC the phrasing we heard around Mac during last year's draft was more like "mid-level starter" with Derek Carr being a frequent comparison.

In the video he was saying most people he talked to thought Mac too would have one the last two games against weaker teams while having a solid run game and with defensive scoring. Of course left unspoken was Zappe hasn't thrown INTs yet whereas Mac has.

 

[VrabelJr]

I listened to the Curran/Perry podcast after the DET game and Phil asked an unnamed coach if Zappe could take Mac's job and he said that coach just laughed. Single-sourced anonymous media guy report, but that's what he said.

Maybe this is what he was alluding to when he wrote:



Source: Perry's Report Card: Zappe's recall impresses Belichick, teammates

Some more recent words from Perry from yesterday before the game poo-pooing the notion of a QB controversy:

Perry: People in NFL don't see Zappe beating out Mac Jones

Phil Perry breaks down what he’s hearing from league sources about how opinions have or haven’t changed about Bailey Zappe in recent weeks.

www.nbcsports.com

He says league people think Zappe has (EDIT noticeable limitations and projects as a career backup.

EDIT: It wouldn't be the first time such people were wrong, but as of right now, it looks like it's still Mac's job to lose.

The first article is from October 10th. The video is from before the game yesterday. You have to figure yesterday's result had some impact.

 

[Bill Lee]

The first article is from October 10th. The video is from before the game yesterday. You have to figure yesterday's result had some impact.

True, that's why I wrote "after the DET game" and then "from yesterday before the game", but still, would yesterday's result, a good result against a banged up CLE defense, have that much impact?

 

[VrabelJr]

True, that's why I wrote "after the DET game" and then "from yesterday before the game", but still, would yesterday's result, a good result against a banged up CLE defense, have that much impact?

Well, we definitely didn't run for 200 yards and score touchdowns on defense.

 

[Bill Lee]

Well, we definitely didn't run for 200 yards and score touchdowns on defense.

Ok, but here's what was written about him before the draft:

Overall, Zappe's mental polish on a number of passing concepts combined with his pocket movement and anticipation on throws project him as a good back-up at the NFL level. His lack of size, arm strength and true athleticism limits his upside and viability to be an every-week starter. But his intelligence and timing would make him a nice addition for a quarterback room, and he could help get a team out of a game if an injury were to happen to their starter. However, those limitations would crop up with tighter windows and more athletic defenders at the NFL level if he had to see extended playing time.

Source: Bleacher Report

So, suppose instead of two starts against DET and CLE, we had extended playing time against more athletic defenders? Seems we don't know how that would go, do we?

I think there's a chance he's better than what this report suggests, but I also feel we'd need to see him against better competition and playing more from behind to get a more helpful evaluation of where he really is.

 

[rogerthat]

I didn't miss or forget about the TO or 4th down stops, Ken. Sure they might have benefited Mac and gave him more opportunities but they weren't the reason he's got multiple TO worthy plays a game. It's football, there's other factors involved that shape an individual outcome but the fact that we've had more TO recently doesn't mean Mac would have played the position any better. They wouldnt have stopped him from bad decision making, poor passes and mechanics. Even with an offense that's not as open in terms of the playbook. Mac hasn't looked good and if we're being objective he hasn't looked good for a minute now. Dating back to last year. That rookie wall you brought up stopped Mac in his tracks and looked like it was still lingering this year.

I'm not going overboard on Zappe at all even though I've been following him before Big Bill. He's been serviceable to good for an NFL QB. It's just I'm also objective about Mac. At his best he was an average NFL QB last year. Promising for a rookie but certainly spectacular. Like for all the optimism, fact remains we haven't seen special or anything close to it from Mac. So I'm not married to either. I think it's crazy for anyone to be at this point. Both have been here for an hour and a half and neither has shown any real special traits.

I personally believe Bill will give Mac the job back no matter what. He's just a safe > sorry guy whether it's coaching or front office.

Zappe has been 'serviceable'? I'm not sure what game you are watching, but yesterday the kid looked GREAT. Question for you- has Jones had ever looked as good as Zappe did yesterday for a full game? He's had good games, sure... but I would say no.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like Zappe may be a bit more mobile than Mac.