An FYI On Mac Jones

[Bill Lee]

And for what it’s worth, when Belichick was asked who the starter will be when Jones is healthy, he hedged and said they’ll see when they get there.

Knowing BB he very well could’ve said “we have every expectation Mac will be the starter when he’s healthy”, that wouldn’t be out of character for him.

Instead he said they’ll see, and I think that’s an accurate reflection of how he’s approaching the situation.

Some direct quotes:

In the wake of his efficient performance, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked whether or not the rookie might supplant second-year pro Mac Jones as the team’s starting quarterback.​

​

“Yeah, I’m not going to get into a lot of hypotheticals on all the different things that might or might not happen and all that,” Belichick told WEEI Radio in Boston on Monday morning.​

​

“That’s, to me, a waste of time. I’m not going to sit around here and dream up scenarios and all that. We’ll take things as they come and go from there. Obviously, Mac wasn’t active [Sunday], so it wasn’t any part of the decision [Sunday],” Belichick added.​

Source: Bill Belichick Asked if Bailey Zappe Could Supplant Mac Jones - Sports Illustrated

I posted about this same topic in another thread, and tend to agree this is just the media cherry-picking his response to make something out of nothing.

Overall IMO it was his standard non-answer answer, keeping his own thoughts on the matter to himself.

Put another way, do you really expect him to say “we have every expectation Mac will be the starter when he’s healthy”?

Why help other teams game plan by just tracking Mac's progress during practices?

Why not keep as much info to yourself?

Phil Perry said after the game he asked a coach if Zappe could supplant Jones, and that coach just laughed.

Bottom line, everyone knows that Jones is going to be the starter as soon as he's healthy, and mediots get paid by the click.

 

[notex]

I dont see any scenario where Mac gets benched for Zappe. Even if he plays well.. Next year training camp could get interesting if Mac continues to play poorly.

 

[n1997y]

I dont see any scenario where Mac gets benched for Zappe. Even if he plays well.. Next year training camp could get interesting if Mac continues to play poorly.

I agree. Most likely scenario is Mac gets his job back when healthy, and Zappe gets a chance to win the job in camp next summer.

One thing that might throw a monkey wrench into things is if Mac tries to come back before the ankle is 100% healed, reinjures it and Zappe seizes the opportunity when he gets more playing time. I’d rather see Mac sit another game or two just for his own benefit, to make sure his ankle is at full strength when he does try to play on it.

 

[Brotherblues]

There is just so much amiss here, foremost attempting to assess quarterback play in a vacuum sans considerations for experience level, OL cohesion, receivers, opponents, etc., etc. Let alone believing one can accurately discern intangibles (confidence, character, command, etc.) from watching on TV. Just like early last season with Mac, Zappe has been/will be tightly scripted. But one telltale difference regarding Zappe vs. Mac is the coaches don't (so far) trust Zappe to throw vertically in the red zone.

Yes, Zappe appears poised and has done well enough on a short leash but it's just too small a sample size to suggest he's starter material. IF Zappe strings together three or four turnover-free wins maybe we can have a discussion. But Mac right now is the better player in all respects -- athletically, arm strength, knowledge of the playbook and knowledge of how to attack NFL defenses. Also as a leader acknowledged by teammates, which manifested in last year's training camp.

OL play has so much to do with whether the QB appears "calm" and possesses pocket awareness. The Patriots OL early this season has been unsettled both personnel-wise (Strange getting acclimated, RT position in flux) and adjusting to a new system. The combination of not being asked to do much vs. a weak opponent in the Lions greatly helped the OL and Zappe put things together. This reminded me of what Jacoby Brissett did a few years ago vs. the Texans, after which people here were singing Brissett's praises as Brady's heir apparent. And we know how that turned out.

One fair criticism of Mac this season appears to be his cautious buy-in to Patricia's system re. significant changes to last year's playbook, whereas Zappe knows nothing any different while being asked to do far, far less. Ignorance is bliss in Zappe's case, but the real proof in the pudding with him can only come with extended playing time.

Don't see anything wrong with praising Zappe for his pocket movement and not panicking once through two games. Whatever factors may or may not have been in Zappe's favor are irrelevant to me because I am not clamoring for Mac to get benched.

What *is* relevant is that I would like Mac to develop that aspect of his game more, and I'm absolutely, fully confident it will click for him. Not sure what is amiss with that.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I agree. Most likely scenario is Mac gets his job back when healthy, and Zappe gets a chance to win the job in camp next summer.

One thing that might throw a monkey wrench into things is if Mac tries to come back before the ankle is 100% healed, reinjures it and Zappe seizes the opportunity when he gets more playing time. I’d rather see Mac sit another game or two just for his own benefit, to make sure his ankle is at full strength when he does try to play on it.

As others have said what BB says is intended to provide as little as possible that can help other teams or provide talking points if things don't go as they seem at this moment in time. I hope that the team can and will protect Mac from himself, even if the narrative for the press puts pressure on him to return ASAP. Having a young starter and backup at QB that work well together would be an excellent outcome from this season.

 

[Tunescribe]

Don't see anything wrong with praising Zappe for his pocket movement and not panicking once through two games. Whatever factors may or may not have been in Zappe's favor are irrelevant to me because I am not clamoring for Mac to get benched.

What *is* relevant is that I would like Mac to develop that aspect of his game more, and I'm absolutely, fully confident it will click for him. Not sure what is amiss with that.

I lumped you in on the response because of your comment attempting to contrast Mac's alleged "jittery pocket movements" with Zappe. Mac is just fine in the pocket when there IS a pocket and he can go through his progressions. Zappe has been very well protected in addition to not being asked to do nearly as much.

 

[patfanken]

Some direct quotes:

In the wake of his efficient performance, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked whether or not the rookie might supplant second-year pro Mac Jones as the team’s starting quarterback.​

​

“Yeah, I’m not going to get into a lot of hypotheticals on all the different things that might or might not happen and all that,” Belichick told WEEI Radio in Boston on Monday morning.​

​

“That’s, to me, a waste of time. I’m not going to sit around here and dream up scenarios and all that. We’ll take things as they come and go from there. Obviously, Mac wasn’t active [Sunday], so it wasn’t any part of the decision [Sunday],” Belichick added.​

Source: Bill Belichick Asked if Bailey Zappe Could Supplant Mac Jones - Sports Illustrated

I posted about this same topic in another thread, and tend to agree this is just the media cherry-picking his response to make something out of nothing.

Overall IMO it was his standard non-answer answer, keeping his own thoughts on the matter to himself.

Put another way, do you really expect him to say “we have every expectation Mac will be the starter when he’s healthy”?

Why help other teams game plan by just tracking Mac's progress during practices?

Why not keep as much info to yourself?

Phil Perry said after the game he asked a coach if Zappe could supplant Jones, and that coach just laughed.

Bottom line, everyone knows that Jones is going to be the starter as soon as he's healthy, and mediots get paid by the click.

Seems like everyone is now reading into what BB says to fit their own narrative to the point where it is almost like the old cold war days when people would make all kinds of narratives based on who was standing next to who during the May day parade. God I LOVE the way BB plays these mediots, which why they are so eager to bang him up whenever the chance occurs....and even when it doesn't.

 

[venecol]

It's so obvious how posters are making every excuse in the book to minimize Mac's poor play in his 3 games and also minimize Zappe's good plays in his 2 games. I've defended Mac from 100% culpability and held Patricia more responsible for his poor play. But at the end of the day, Mac has played poorly so far in his 2nd season.

Positives that are being discounted:
1. By all accounts Mac had a great offseason of preparation in nutrition, strength conditioning, throwing mechanics & arm strength that was wildly praised.
2. 2nd season w/ a full TC w/ 1st team reps;
3. Familiarity & chemistry with 88% of his skill players (WR, TE, RBs);
4. Expected 2nd year growth by this same group of skill players.

Negatives that are valid:
1. New OC/QB coaches and schemes (on BB);
2. Though only 1 new G, the OL was revamped & new schemes introduced (on Patricia).

It's difficult to know if the negatives have outweighed the positives in his development and performance so far. There's no doubt he's looked both uncomfortable and frustrated out there. I personally blame the negatives.

In comparison, Zappe had none of the positives or any of the negatives as a rookie 3rd string QB. So to me, his performance is a better indication of his raw ability and talent. He's performed very well with what he's asked to do. It's clear he can do more. He's unfazed by the moment, remains calm, and per Belichick:

“... made a lot of good decisions. Was accurate with the ball. Thought he showed some poise there in some pressure situations where he got out of it and found an open receiver, made good decisions. He does a good job of seeing the game and can come off and identify and articulate what he saw, what happened — and that’s usually right. What he saw is usually what I saw or, maybe, when you look at the film, maybe there’s something that’s a little gray in there, his explanation is actually good. It was the way he saw it. Maybe he might not have done the right thing, but he saw the game."

He's saying that Zappe is seeing the game in real-time the way Bill is seeing it. That certainly sounds like a guy that processes info fast and can read defenses.

Not sure if this is known, but Bailey was calling his own plays in college. He was given the freedom to adjust and change plays. There aren't enough practices that can teach that level of decision making, regardless of the competition.

Obviously, Mac is the starter when he returns and Zappe is QB2. I would like to see more of Zappe as a starter while Mac recovers completely. These next games should be wins against below average teams, so why not see what else this kid can do. It's a win-win for the team.

Discounting Zappe as: not a starting NFL QB or a career back-up is disingenous. Just because you bought a Mac jersey doesn't mean you have to sh*t on Zappe.

 

[catent]

Many people quite sure of things that I do not think anyone not in that building can be so sure of.

 

[Real fan 02]

Some interesting numbers from last season:



Jones got a lot of his turnovers out of the way early last year too and then settled down. Plenty of reason to believe that will be the case when he gets back out there. All he has to do is say, "I'm not throwing it to DeVante Parker unless he's wide open. Period."

Problem solved

I really wish people would take a deeper look and appreciate Mac, the guy was excellent as a rookie all be it under a seasoned OC. This season Learning a new offensive scheme took some adjustments.. I feel the time off for him.. even though being injured may have helped him. Mac was great against Baltimore! He is our starter and that's how it should be.. I know he wants to be out there as the competitor he his however if he isn't 80 to 90 percent let the kid play another week.. the season is a long grind.. I say we can win every game left on our schedule except for the bills I'll concede those losses...

 

[Real fan 02]

If Zappe improves every week Mac's in trouble. Zappe is far from a finish product but you have to love the little bite sizes. You can see the warts in Mac's game hope he plays with a chip on his shoulders when he gets healthy. IF not he's going have to constantly look over his shoulders. Zappe ain't going anywhere for now sorry Mac.

.. I think the idea is for all the QBs to improve save for Hoyer.. so did Mac have warts in his game last year when he broke rookie records, played well in an ESTABLISHED OFFENSE with a creative play caller?.. Mac has that fire and competitive fight in him.. he's respected by a lot of players across the league.. that's telling! Look zappe great kid, love his attitude love his story..nice to have a qb that we know can fill in going forward.. because let's be honest hoyer wasn't it! I feel this recent time off all be it for injury was good for Mac.. to see his mistakes this season, continue to see film ect.. the off-season we looked terrible on offense and it carried over in to the season.. I just don't get all the Mac hate.. MJ10 is the key to any success going forward we shall have...

 

[Tunescribe]

I really wish people would take a deeper look and appreciate Mac, the guy was excellent as a rookie all be it under a seasoned OC. This season Learning a new offensive scheme took some adjustments.. I feel the time off for him.. even though being injured may have helped him. Mac was great against Baltimore! He is our starter and that's how it should be.. I know he wants to be out there as the competitor he his however if he isn't 80 to 90 percent let the kid play another week.. the season is a long grind.. I say we can win every game left on our schedule except for the bills I'll concede those losses...

Hey now, don't concede ANYTHING! You never know, there could be a windstorm. Or Iron Horse Allen just might come up lame from calling his own number one too many times between now and then.

 

[amfootball]

I hope to see Zappe again this week.

 

[catent]

I hope to see Zappe again this week.

Yep, if for no other reason than to see if Zappe can replicate and build on the things he did last week.

Even if one feels Jones is the better option than Zappe when fully healthy, I don't think putting a 75% Jones on the field (with an injury that can be easily reaggravated) is a great idea, especially when we just witnessed quality QB play from the 100% healthy Zappe.

Let Jones get fully healthy, don't rush him. Get more data/info on Zappe against different teams, schemes, etc.

From a long-term planning perspective, it makes all the sense in the world to play Zappe for the time being, at least until Jones is at/very close to 100% (unless Zappe starts to suck eggs in the interim).

That way, when Jones is completely healthy, if he is deemed the better option, he'll re-take the field at 100% and hit the ground running. If, however, Zappe replicates what he did against Detroit over the next 1 ... maybe 2-3 weeks, then you have more certainty that his performance wasn't a fluke, and, should the team feel Zappe is the better option at that point in time, they can have more confidence in making that decision based on several games worth of data.

 

[catent]

I really wish people would take a deeper look and appreciate Mac, the guy was excellent as a rookie all be it under a seasoned OC. This season Learning a new offensive scheme took some adjustments.. I feel the time off for him.. even though being injured may have helped him. Mac was great against Baltimore! He is our starter and that's how it should be.. I know he wants to be out there as the competitor he his however if he isn't 80 to 90 percent let the kid play another week.. the season is a long grind.. I say we can win every game left on our schedule except for the bills I'll concede those losses...

Jones played well at times against Baltimore, but I'll be hard pressed to say any QB that throws 3 INTs in a game played "great".

One INT was unequivocally his fault, threw it right to the defender. One was borderline, can't know who ultimately received blame without being in the meeting room, but even if Parker could've done more, there is no doubt that throw from Jones was high-risk (especially given field position and score). The final INT came in garbage time and looked like a missed throw or a breakdown in communication between Jones and the receiver; that one was the least impactful given when it occurred.

He played pretty well for stretches of the game and was able to push the ball downfield a bit and get some chunk plays. But you simply cannot throw three (or two, if you will) interceptions in a single game with any regularity, especially without TDs to go with the interceptions.

 

[catent]

What I am finding most frustrating about this thread is what feels like an unwillingness (by some) to allow others to have a different perspective.

I've said, repeatedly, that those who feel Jones is the better option are allowed to feel that way, and I can definitely understand why someone would be confident in Jones and believe he is the starter. That's fair.

What isn't cool is telling anyone who has a differing opinion that they're wrong. I don't think I've told anyone in this thread that they're wrong, or just don't get it, are obviously ignorant/naive, etc. The most I've said is "I think we have different opinions of what we watched", and tried very hard to disclose/caveat my subjective opinion as just that.

I feel strongly and have conviction in what I've seen from Zappe, but I fully acknowledge my opinion could be wrong, that Zappe could flop in the coming weeks, so forth, and if that happens you'll see me here saying that my initial take on Zappe was wrong. I've also been really clear that one game is not a big enough sample size to conclude anything with certainty.

It would make for a more approachable discussion if others attempted to do similar.

 

[venecol]

THREAD SUMMARY:

Guys that want Mac to play this week: idiots.

Guys that want Zappe to play this week: idiots.

 

[venecol]

 

[Real fan 02]

Hey now, don't concede ANYTHING! You never know, there could be a windstorm. Or Iron Horse Allen just might come up lame from calling his own number one too many times between now and then.

Only hope is Allen being hurt for us to win.. he can't be stopped, at least not by us.. can't rush him he'll run for 10 yards, Diggs is unreal don't know why BB will never double him.. only way to beat Buffalo is to put pressure on thier defense like Baltimore did..

 

[PatsWSB47]

Maybe Zappe is more like a young Flutie without the college fame.

Or the mobility