#FreeKendrickBourne -- Should Kendrick Bourne start against Steelers in Week2?

[upstater1]

Combination of huge overpay and not a great fit. Even the biggest of homers have to look at what the going rate was and have to say we overpaid given what other guys got.

Agholor isn't really an intermediate and YAC guy. Not sure why you'd pay him so much to do that.

Similar situation with Jonnu. They paid him and want him to be a conventional tight end but he's really just a YAC gadget guy.

The WR market has exploded.

500 yard catchers are regularly making Nelson's amount.

 

[upstater1]

Gross Overpay

patriots head WR scout should be fired

Nelson is open a lot more than people give him credit for. He was really good in Oakland his last year, and he'd be excellent here if our offense were more dynamic.

 

[PScottman]

I didn't say that.

But if you've shown over and over you can rebuild it, then it's not like hiring someone who never has.

Should Harbaugh be fired?

Also, since Marv Levy resigned 30+ years ago, the Bills went 30 years to finally find a good head coach.

They cycled through 9 of them.

Much of the NFL operates in the fashion.

Look at the 49ers after Bill Walsh.

Took them forever to find a good one

Then what's your criteria because your follow up above is the same end state that you said you didn't say - if it's too hard to find a replacement, might as well let the current HC coach for life.

As to your question on Harbaugh - under my criteria yes, they absolutely should've had the discussion internal to to the ownership. Doesn't mean automatic firing as there are variables - say the superstar QB is hurt for most of the year, but it's a discussion for sure - same as the players if there's no accountability or criteria for the coaches then they never innovate or change or improve - because there's no impetus to.

 

[jah]

He was late to a team meeting before a preseason game. He jumped into a fight in joint practices with Carolina and was a major instigator in a scrum that had nothing to do with him…. he ran all the way across the field to join in. This was all well documented. Teams need discipline, this isn’t fantasy football.

Playing Parker and Humphrey over Bourne is decreasing the team's probability of winning real football games. It seems counterproductive if the reason you're disciplining the player in the first place is ostensibly to make the team better (to win games).

Just like a certain Super Bowl.

 

[Brick27]

Sounds like revisionism, but felt like the Parker signing was sort of unnecessary from the beginning. Unless it had been a premiere WR available, would have rather punted on adding a very fringe #1 who’s really only had one great year in his career. There were already reasons to put optimism in the continuity with Meyers, Bourne and Agholor, especially with the latter two going on year 2 with the team. It was good to address WR in the draft with Thornton, just unfortunate luck with the injury. TBD until it’s shown the team was better off adding Parker as a supposed top WR, rather than holding pat and having a guy like Humphrey or Mixon in the back end of the WR chart instead.

 

[upstater1]

Then what's your criteria because your follow up above is the same end state that you said you didn't say - if it's too hard to find a replacement, might as well let the current HC coach for life.

As to your question on Harbaugh - under my criteria yes, they absolutely should've had the discussion internal to to the ownership. Doesn't mean automatic firing as there are variables - say the superstar QB is hurt for most of the year, but it's a discussion for sure - same as the players if there's no accountability or criteria for the coaches then they never innovate or change or improve - because there's no impetus to.

I didn't say coach for life.

 

[upstater1]

Playing Parker and Humphrey over Bourne is decreasing the team's probability of winning real football games. It seems counterproductive if the reason you're disciplining the player in the first place is ostensibly to make the team better (to win games).

Just like a certain Super Bowl.

How do you account for the wins due to team discipline versus the losses due to lack of discipline?

 

[upstater1]

Anyway...

Callahan: "FWIW, Matt Patricia dapped up all the #Patriots WRs pregame, and Kendrick Bourne grabbed him for an extended embrace. This has been your body language analysis tweet of the day."

 

[Bill Lee]

Thank you, Agreed, I’d pick a much better OC. I can judge many things very well from my couch. Aside from that, im Curious how your going to defend the dumpster fire mid season.
ill GLADLY be wrong, but the view from my couch is telling me different.

"Fat" Matt: 1-1
"Titled" OC Josh McD with all those coaches he stole from the Patriots, plus Davante Adams: 0-2

 

[Wozzy]

Playing Parker and Humphrey over Bourne is decreasing the team's probability of winning real football games. It seems counterproductive if the reason you're disciplining the player in the first place is ostensibly to make the team better (to win games).

Just like a certain Super Bowl.

3 Targets, two catches, 16 yards for Bourne… yet somehow we still won.

Poor takes abound…

 

[1960Pats]

I understand what you say about the long rebuild. BUT understand the Patriots sold out for the 2019 Super Bowl.

We were strapped to the cap.

Everyone left except for Slater and McCourty, who won't be around for long.

We brought in Jonnu, Henry, Judon, Agholor and Bourne.

In the meantime, we've had 1 bad draft and 2 decent ones.

This is a rebuild. A long one.

The funny thing is that they built up so much positivity over the last couple of decades that I don't think it will bother me as much if they go on a run of poor seasons. My fandom bank is overflowing.

You don’t let the lunatics run the asylum, or what you end up with is a madhouse. This is real life we’re talking here, not fantasy football.

I think there are plenty of less strict coaches who've been successful. As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Speaking of fantasy football, I see now that the NYFL is pushing fantasy more than ever. I guess the BBC won't be happy until they get every last dollar from the fans.

 

[PScottman]

I didn't say coach for life.

And you didn't refute it through defining anything different either.

 

[upstater1]

The funny thing is that they built up so much positivity over the last couple of decades that I don't think it will bother me as much if they go on a run of poor seasons. My fandom bank is overflowing.



I think there are plenty of less strict coaches who've been successful. As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Speaking of fantasy football, I see now that the NYFL is pushing fantasy more than ever. I guess the BBC won't be happy until they get every last dollar from the fans.

I'll add one more thing about drafting.

If you get a top 15 pick, you can more easily get those premier players that become all-pros. Belichick often says those guys around 20 are graded the same as the guys at 40-50. So there always seems to be a big dropoff.

Not that you can tell anything about those guys that went 20 or later this year, but only Quay Walker and Karlaftis are showing anything so far. Granted, two positions of need for the Patriots. BUT we were also targeted to take a guy like Kaiir Elam, who is on the bench behind a 6th rounder rookie right now. And there are many players, like Devin Lloyd, who we were frothing after, who have been very underwhelming. I want to know who on this board was pushing Quay Walker instead of Lloyd, because there was a lot of Lloyd love here.

My point is that you can't pick bottom of the draft year after year, or lose premium picks to idiocy like Deflategate, and expect the roster to have All-Pros on it. It's hard to do. Even if you hit on your drafts, you might not get the difference makers.

 

[upstater1]

And you didn't refute it through defining anything different either.

Refute what? Something you claim I said? I didn't say it. Multiple times I didn't say it. What are you even talking about at this point? What is there to refute? Here's the FACT. I didn't say he should be Coach for Life. PERIOD.

 

[captain stone]

3 Targets, two catches, 16 yards for Bourne… yet somehow we still won.

Just think how productive he'd be if he had an OC & QB who didn't suck...

 

[PatsFan2]

3 Targets, two catches, 16 yards for Bourne… yet somehow we still won.

Poor takes abound…

Two First Downs too.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Need to play Bourne more.

 

[PScottman]

Refute what? Something you claim I said? I didn't say it. Multiple times I didn't say it. What are you even talking about at this point? What is there to refute? Here's the FACT. I didn't say he should be Coach for Life. PERIOD.

The question remains unanswered.

You posted that my criteria for when a coach should have to be accountable and his continued reign as HC & GM be examined: 3 years of declining results was not acceptable, but then when asked, declined to provide your own.

Upstater's criteria so far:

But it's really hard to come down from 20 years of dominance, and to allow a successful coach like Belichick what all successful coaches should be allowed: time to rebuild the roster.

and

Not when they are all time greats. You don't replace the greatest with Eric Bienemy.

Do you think the Ravens should replace Harbaugh if they have a losing record this year?

In 5 of the last 9 years, they've had middling records: 8-8, 5-11, 8-8, 9-7, 8-9.

Guess how many playoff games the Baltimore Ravens have won in the last 9 years?

TWO.

which once again doesn't set a time frame or criteria - just basically says "you don't do it."

And finally:

I didn't say that.

But if you've shown over and over you can rebuild it, then it's not like hiring someone who never has.

Should Harbaugh be fired?

Also, since Marv Levy resigned 30+ years ago, the Bills went 30 years to finally find a good head coach.

They cycled through 9 of them.

Much of the NFL operates in the fashion.

Look at the 49ers after Bill Walsh.

Took them forever to find a good one

With amorphous criteria of "showing over and over again you can rebuild it..." and a mention of "forever" which technically is not "for life" since no one lives forever. So I have to give you that one.

That said, unless there's a contradictory time frame you posted which I missed (entirely possible) - then the only conclusion I can make is the opposite of NO TIME FRAME must be true?? Or maybe it's the criteria of "not Eric Bienamy" - you did put that - I guess that's a criteria, but that still basically leaves the decision of whether or not a HC stays in their own hands without accountability to anyone for all other circumstances.

In short, you haven't stated anything as to what would facilitate a review of Bill Belichick's term as HC and GM of the Patriots for his continued employment in that position.

 

[upstater1]

The question remains unanswered.

You posted that my criteria for when a coach should have to be accountable and his continued reign as HC & GM be examined: 3 years of declining results was not acceptable, but then when asked, declined to provide your own.

Upstater's criteria so far:

and

which once again doesn't set a time frame or criteria - just basically says "you don't do it."

And finally:

With amorphous criteria of "showing over and over again you can rebuild it..." and a mention of "forever" which technically is not "for life" since no one lives forever. So I have to give you that one.

That said, unless there's a contradictory time frame you posted which I missed (entirely possible) - then the only conclusion I can make is the opposite of NO TIME FRAME must be true?? Or maybe it's the criteria of "not Eric Bienamy" - you did put that - I guess that's a criteria, but that still basically leaves the decision of whether or not a HC stays in their own hands without accountability to anyone for all other circumstances.

In short, you haven't stated anything as to what would facilitate a review of Bill Belichick's term as HC and GM of the Patriots for his continued employment in that position.

Crazy stuff.

Are you always like this?

 

[Deus Irae]

I understand what you say about the long rebuild. BUT understand the Patriots sold out for the 2019 Super Bowl.

That's the narrative, not the reality. BB's never sold out for a single season.