Dan Shaughnessy: Biggest douche bag of them all?

[Wozzy]

I’m saying there’s no proof that a detailed, two-way conversation with Brady actively discussing a contract happened. That’s buttressed by the fact that he didn’t sign there when he could have. You seem to think that a lame duck coach could have overruled Ross. There’s no evidence of that either. As a matter of fact, it’s a laughable contention.



Yep. And they didn’t punish Brady or Payton for it. They only punished Miami. Brady’s level of involvement is very much up for debate since the transcripts are available for public consumption and he didn’t sign in Miami.



I have? I’m pretty clearly on the logical side of this debate. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have felt the need to jump in. Proving me wrong would entail Brady either signing in Miami in 2020 (he didn’t) or more proof coming out. The transcripts would be helpful.



What else would you call a theory that he didn’t sign in Miami because a lame duck coach overruled the owner? I could call it “crap” or “idiotic,” but I’m trying to be nice.



Do the other morbidly obese involuntary celibates in your over-40 Patriots chat room find this material funny? Go outside and let your feet touch grass. There’s more to life than rooting for the Patriots.

So you’re in denial and dancing around the facts to protect your sacred cow… got it.

I’ve got to go, my girlfriend gave me a post limit once she read your dating advice for me. Maybe you should take your own advice.

Keep up the good fight white knight…

 

[Ring 6]

Interesting. So you think Brian Flores overruled Stephen Ross and did not want Tom Brady to come in and win with, and that he would have rather had Tua? And he kept his job after that? That might be the weakest conjecture yet. It doesn’t have any basis in reality unless you can produce proof of that, as well. I won’t hold my breath.

The same NFL investigation that you’re pinning your hopes on here also found that Flores was not offered $100k to throw games, even though he claimed that was also the case. Whether you want to pin your argument on the league or Flores (you can’t do both), it doesn’t hold water.

Now, without trending toward mere guesswork, conjecture, or conspiracy theory that a proven liar (since you trust NFL officials so much) could overrule his office and turn down the GOAT to run his offense, why don’t you tell me why such detailed conversations didn’t end with Brady signing in Miami.

I am not understanding why you are clinging to the qualifier that for the tampering to have impacted Brady he would have had to sign when Miami.
If Miami drove a wedge between Brady and the team and Brady decided Miami persuaded him that he would be happier there, the damage is done, even if he ends up deciding a different option is better.

I am not talking about tampering in March, I am taking about tampering in August.
If it had no impact why did Brady get a $9 million raise, with 2 void years added and no true extension while the patriots forfeited their right to tag.
What possible reason could there be for the Patriots to agree to that. The only one I can think of is that he threatened to hold out and refused to agree to anything else. I’m open to other explanations but that is one of the most telling pieces of evidence here.

 

[Wozzy]

I am not understanding why you are clinging to the qualifier that for the tampering to have impacted Brady he would have had to sign when Miami.
If Miami drove a wedge between Brady and the team and Brady decided Miami persuaded him that he would be happier there, the damage is done, even if he ends up deciding a different option is better.

I am not talking about tampering in March, I am taking about tampering in August.
If it had no impact why did Brady get a $9 million raise, with 2 void years added and no true extension while the patriots forfeited their right to tag.
What possible reason could there be for the Patriots to agree to that. The only one I can think of is that he threatened to hold out and refused to agree to anything else. I’m open to other explanations but that is one of the most telling pieces of evidence here.

I wouldn’t bother, he’s already shown the truth and facts are irrelevant to him.

Brian Flores was in his second year after a promising start, the Phins were a team on the rise and he still had some juice there. He wanted a rookie QB to build the team in his image… that’s why they didn’t go after him aggressively.

Ross would have had to fire his star on the rise head coach, Tom probably would have balked at that… oh yeah, and Tampa was right up the road and had a superteam everywhere except LT and QB… it was a perfect landing spot.

 

[Ring 6]

I wouldn’t bother, he’s already shown the truth and facts are irrelevant to him.

Brian Flores was in his second year after a promising start, the Phins were a team on the rise and he still had some juice there. He wanted a rookie QB to build the team in his image… that’s why they didn’t go after him aggressively.

Ross would have had to fire his star on the rise head coach, Tom probably would have balked at that… oh yeah, and Tampa was right up the road and had a superteam everywhere except LT and QB… it was a perfect landing spot.

I disagree. Clearly Ross makes that decision. He isn’t letting Flores tell him don’t bring in Brady.
I don’t think there was ever a chance of Brady ending up in Miami unless they became a contender that year. Remember when they started tampering in was preseason.
I fully believe the primary goal of tampering was to get him out of New England and the secondary goal was to get him to Miami immediately but also keep after him until they had a team he could win with.

Truth is none of us know. But not knowing doesn’t support nothing happened more than it supports the worst happened. “Prove he cooperated” is the same thing as “prove he didn’t”

 

[Kontradiction]

So you’re in denial and dancing around the facts to protect your sacred cow… got it.

I’ve got to go, my girlfriend gave me a post limit once she read your dating advice for me. Maybe you should take your own advice.

“My girlfriend” might be the funniest thing you’ve posted in this thread. Do you tell her to stop bothering you when people are wrong on the other free board that you spam, too?

Keep up the good fight white knight…

Says the grown man whose entire personality is built around simping for a 70 year old professional football coach who wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire. You’ve been on here the entire offseason. Take a vacation, chief. If you can’t afford one, set up a GoFundMe and I’ll help you out.

 

[Wozzy]

I disagree. Clearly Ross makes that decision. He isn’t letting Flores tell him don’t bring in Brady.
I don’t think there was ever a chance of Brady ending up in Miami unless they became a contender that year. Remember when they started tampering in was preseason.
I fully believe the primary goal of tampering was to get him out of New England and the secondary goal was to get him to Miami immediately but also keep after him until they had a team he could win with.

Truth is none of us know. But not knowing doesn’t support nothing happened more than it supports the worst happened. “Prove he cooperated” is the same thing as “prove he didn’t”

We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors but Flores clearly had some pull in the first couple seasons there. If he drafts Herbert and other rookies instead, we’re probably calling him a genius.

Remember when Brady said “you’re sticking with that mofo?” Apparently he was talking about Ryan Fitzpatrick, who was the ultimate bridge guy to a rookie QB.

Owners stick their necks into their head coaches business at their own peril… it didn’t work out so well when Jerry Jones did it with Jimmy Johnson or that time Kraft did it with Parcells. Smart leaders hire people smarter than them to run businesses they know nothing about.

 

[Wozzy]

“My girlfriend” might be the funniest thing you’ve posted in this thread. Do you tell her to stop bothering you when people are wrong on the other free board that you spam, too?



Says the grown man whose entire personality is built around simping for a 70 year old professional football coach who wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire. You’ve been on here the entire offseason. Take a vacation, chief. If you can’t afford one, set up a GoFundMe and I’ll help you out.

Now all you’re left with is insults… the last bastion of a lost argument.

Nite nite Felicia, sorry the facts didn’t work in your favor here.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am not understanding why you are clinging to the qualifier that for the tampering to have impacted Brady he would have had to sign when Miami.

Because it doesn’t make sense that he would sign elsewhere given the money and years they were likely to throw at him if it was a two-way street.

If Miami drove a wedge between Brady and the team and Brady decided Miami persuaded him that he would be happier there, the damage is done, even if he ends up deciding a different option is better.

Not sure why you’re clinging to this one. The wedge was clearly already there. The team also had the chance to sign him until 45 years of age for two straight seasons, and decided not to. If they had, this contact would have been a non-starter.

I am not talking about tampering in March, I am taking about tampering in August.

So am I.

If it had no impact why did Brady get a $9 million raise, with 2 void years added and no true extension while the patriots forfeited their right to tag.

That’s not a new deal, though. There was no new deal after the 2018 offseason. It was the same deal. You’re also forgetting to mention that he signed it with the request that they forfeit their right to tag him when they declined to give him the years he wanted.

What possible reason could there be for the Patriots to agree to that. The only one I can think of is that he threatened to hold out and refused to agree to anything else. I’m open to other explanations but that is one of the most telling pieces of evidence here.

Occam’s Razor should tell you that they were simply ready to move on from him. Hence the dressed up two-year deals that were really year-to-year. Add in the report that there was a rift between him and BB dating back to 2017, and you have the most simple answer there is without having to piece together communications that you don’t have, and then drawing a conclusion without them.

 

[Kontradiction]

We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors but Flores clearly had some pull in the first couple seasons there. If he drafts Herbert and other rookies instead, we’re probably calling him a genius.

Remember when Brady said “you’re sticking with that mofo?” Apparently he was talking about Ryan Fitzpatrick, who was the ultimate bridge guy to a rookie QB.

Owners stick their necks into their head coaches business at their own peril… it didn’t work out so well when Jerry Jones did it will Jimmy Johnson or that time Kraft did it with Parcells. Smart leaders hire people smarter than them to run businesses they know nothing about.

We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors… but clearly Flores overruled Ross. Makes sense.

 

[Kontradiction]

Now all you’re left with insults… the last bastion of a lost argument.

Nite nite Felicia, sorry the facts didn’t work in your favor here.

You started with the ad hominem, my guy. I’m just responding to you in kind. You’re an easy target because you’re clearly a massive loser without much of a social life.

If the facts weren’t working in my favor, Andy wouldn’t have felt the need to come in and try to save your bacon.

 

[Wozzy]

We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors… but clearly Flores overruled Ross. Makes sense.

You spend entirely too much time here to insult others for posting… you don’t see the irony though.

 

[Wozzy]

You started with the ad hominem, my guy. I’m just responding to you in kind. You’re an easy target because you’re clearly a massive loser without much of a social life.

If the facts weren’t working in my favor, Andy wouldn’t have felt the need to come in and try to save your bacon.

Blah blah blah… you’re calling the facts released from an independent investigation and a lawsuit filed in a court of law a conspiracy theory… you can’t rationally discuss conjecture when you clearly can’t accept the actual facts. That’s the epitome of a bias, an agenda… Timmy doesn’t need your protection.

 

[XLIX]

It's been proven they spoke prior to that... try to keep up.

What else did you want to discuss or be wrong about?

But pretending facts don’t exist is some real Brady body pillow fanboy nonsense. You get the superfan award for today!

But fanboys gonna fanboy...

Now all you’re left with insults… the last bastion of a lost argument.

Nite nite Felicia, sorry the facts didn’t work in your favor here.

The lack of self awareness is beyond hilarious here....

 

[Kontradiction]

You spend entirely too much time here to insult others for posting… you don’t see the irony there though.

I was off the board for the entire offseason traveling. Nice try, though. How was your summer?

 

[Kontradiction]

Blah blah blah… you’re calling the facts released from an independent investigation and a lawsuit filed in a court of law a conspiracy theory… you can’t rationally discuss conjecture when you clearly can’t accept the actual facts. That’s the epitome of a bias, an agenda… Timmy doesn’t need your protection.

“We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors… but clearly Brady negotiated with the Dolphins. All of the other losers on the multiple message boards I post on agree.”

 

[Wozzy]

“We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors… but clearly Brady negotiated with the Dolphins. All of the other losers on the multiple message boards I post on agree.”

It’s been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt Brady was speaking to the Dolphins during the 2019 season.

But facts don’t matter to you as much as fandom, and you think “because I say so” matters more than legal discovery.

 

[Wozzy]

“We’re not privy to what happened behind closed doors… but clearly Brady negotiated with the Dolphins. All of the other losers on the multiple message boards I post on agree.”

It’s not proven Brady had Arians fired either… but one would have to be a drooling fanboy to deny it’s the most probable thing that happened.

Newsflash: Tom’s human.

 

[Ring 6]

Because it doesn’t make sense that he would sign elsewhere given the money and years they were likely to throw at him if it was a two-way street.

[/QUOTE]
It wasn’t about money.

Not sure why you’re clinging to this one. The wedge was clearly already there. The team also had the chance to sign him until 45 years of age for two straight seasons, and decided not to. If they had, this contact would have been a non-starter.

[/QUOTE]
Eh, you could argue the wedge was there forever, when you cite how he was coached and belichick running a tight ship.
Suddenly it mattered.
In 2016 he signed a 2 year extension to include 2018 and 2019 for 41 million.
In 2019 he wouldn’t sign a 2 year extension for 53 million. It would have taken him through 2021 just like the deal he signed in Tampa did.

Tampa didn’t sign him until he was 45.

So am I.

[/QUOTE]
So the impact of August tampering isn’t signing a contract. He can’t until the flooring March. The impact of August tampering is ****ing with your divisional rivals best player.

That’s not a new deal, though. There was no new deal after the 2018 offseason. It was the same deal. You’re also forgetting to mention that he signed it with the request that they forfeit their right to tag him when they declined to give him the years he wanted.

[/QUOTE]
They offered a 2 yr 53 mill extension, he didn’t want it.
Why would the Patriots want to hand him 9 mill extra for the year he is under contract waive the tag and get absolutely nothing in return?

Occam’s Razor should tell you that they were simply ready to move on from him. Hence the dressed up two-year deals that were really year-to-year. Add in the report that there was a rift between him and BB dating back to 2017, and you have the most simple answer there is without having to piece together communications that you don’t have, and then drawing a conclusion without them.

[/QUOTE]
Occam’s razor tells me something changed. It tells me teams tamper to disrupt player/team relationships. It tells me it happened exactly at those times.
It tells me it had an influence.

I also don’t buy “reports of a riff” as if they are truth, especially from people like Wickersham. I don’t think a story by Wickersham hold more weight than an investigation and pending lawsuit that confirmed frequent and detailed communications from Miami trying to exert an influence to break up the Patriots.

 

[Guts]

It’s not proven Brady had Arians fired either… but one would have to be a drooling fanboy to deny it’s the most probable thing that happened.

Newsflash: Tom’s human.

I'm not so sure about that one. If someone wanted me fired I wouldn't be patrolling the practice field or be anywhere near the facility like Arians is lol

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not so sure about that one. If someone wanted me fired I wouldn't be patrolling the practice field or be anywhere near the facility like Arians is lol

He has no clue what’s going on. When you have that much of an inferiority complex that you tie such a large part of your personality, time, and happiness to a football team, you’re not exactly the most unbiased guy in the world when it comes to issues peripheral to the team.