Dan Shaughnessy: Biggest douche bag of them all?

[Kontradiction]

Yes

Tom Baby tampered with 2 different teams. The people that claim that Brady didnt tamper are wrong. There is "legal tampering" and "Illegal tampering" protocol clearly stated in the NFL rules for players. NFL teams are supposed to reject solicitation from under contract players that approach them to tamper.

Which part of the rule?

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

 

[Pape]

This seems to be fake outrage because it didnt help the Patriots. Neither did this im sure. Should the Patriots have suspended Bill?

He replied to that... Called it garbage

What does BB exercise in NE? Complete control of football operations.

Would he be able to get that elsewheres? Based on the way those teams are run, and have been run the answer is no...So i believe him, not some unsourced rumors written to get clicks...

In the end this is just another example of whataboutism... One that the Brady cult of personality pink hat brigade rolls out and surrounds themselves with so they don't have to admit it to themselves that Brady acted like a **** ... Try looking straight ahead instead of up bradys ass all the time... Might help clear up somethings for you

 

[Pape]

Which part of the rule?

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

Is this directed at me? I don't understand what you are supposed to be referencing. Care to clarify?

Unless it's not directed at me, then meh, no worries... Then I will take it for what it seems to be... More deflection

 

[Kontradiction]

The league did determine that the actions were detrimental to the Patriots and said so.

So why didn’t they suspend him or fine him? How, specifically, were his actions detrimental to the Patriots? Here are the rules:

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

Are you claiming otherwise? Are you saying that Brady having multiple, detailed conversations with Miami wasn't detrimental to the Patriots and their negotiations with Brady during and after the 2019 season?

What negotiations? They waited on a response from Brady and Brady left. They didn’t extend any long term offers to Brady multiple times in the lead-up to the 2020 season. The team had multiple chances to lock him up, and didn’t.

and why didn't the NFL suspend brady? the league deals with the teams when it comes to tampering, not players...

Bingo. Miami tampered. The most Brady did was respond. The Patriots with Brady made the playoffs, and had the best record in the league at one point in 2019. Brady, early in 2019, was leaps and bounds the best QB in the league after the contact with Miami. There is no evidence whatsoever that this was detrimental to the New England Patriots.

its up to the teams to deal with contract violations like that, not the league ... and what team would suspend a player they are in the middle of negotiating with or want to keep due to tampering?

Weaksauce. The NFL can certainly suspend Brady if they felt he did anything wrong. See Deflategate. But he didn’t. It’s right there in the rules you keep pointing to.

So why didn't the Patriots suspend Brady? Because they didn't know about his SECRET dealings with Beal...

You mean the ones about Brady serving as an executive in Miami, and “perhaps” playing for the team? Before he went on to start out 8-0 for the Patriots? Before he signed in Tampa? Are those the dealings that were so detrimental to the team?

It absolutely was within their right to do so... however, as stated in the last sentence - they would have to know about the illicit contact when it occurred... This was bombshell... even Wickersham didn't sniff this one out - or at least the extent of it... otherwise it would have been mentioned before this week, most likely having its own chapter in his book...

If the Patriots had known about this they would have filed tampering charges... and depending on the results of the investigation, made in a timely manner instead of 4 years after the fact, one must wonder how long ago these conversations started? we know it was all of 2019... could it have gone back into the 2018 season? If so, the team could have potentially filed a grievance, and pushed to nullify Bradys no tag clause...

The team filing tampering charges is irrelevant to the question I asked you. You’re merely attempting to move the goal posts. Why isn’t the LEAGUE suspending him or fining him if the rules so clearly specify that what he did was conduct detrimental, which was your original argument? Try to answer that question without guesswork or conspiracy.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is this directed at me? I don't understand what you are supposed to be referencing. Care to clarify?

Unless it's not directed at me, then meh, no worries... Then I will take it for what it seems to be... More deflection

It’s directed at Triumph.

 

[Pape]

It’s directed at Triumph.

Ahhh ty ... Have that dude blocked... Will reply to your other post when I am not on my phone... Easier to read/manage the reply

 

[Kontradiction]

Ahhh ty ... Have that dude blocked... Will reply to your other post when I am not on my phone... Easier to read/manage the reply

Well, he agrees with your take. In your own words that you directed at me a couple of weeks ago: “nuff said.”

 

[Kontradiction]

I’m not big on suspending players.
He surely violated his contract. I do think the Patriots should be compensated.

The league didn’t find that Brady violated his contract. If the Patriots are to be compensated, it’s because Miami tampered.

 

[All3Phases]

He replied to that... Called it garbage

What does BB exercise in NE? Complete control of football operations.

So he just denied it means it didnt happen? Are you that gullible?

Would he be able to get that elsewheres? Based on the way those teams are run, and have been run the answer is no...So i believe him, not some unsourced rumors written to get clicks...

Yes, he would. McDaniels and Zeigler have complete control in Vegas and hes not nearly as established as BB.

In the end this is just another example of whataboutism... One that the Brady cult of personality pink hat brigade rolls out and surrounds themselves with so they don't have to admit it to themselves that Brady acted like a **** ... Try looking straight ahead instead of up bradys ass all the time... Might help clear up somethings for you

No, the difference is I know everybody acts like a **** and dont care about any of it. I just dont care for the hypocrites. Just like im sure you excuse Spygate, as every other team did it...Just because it was the Patriots and your team

 

[Ring 6]

The league didn’t find that Brady violated his contract. If the Patriots are to be compensated, it’s because Miami tampered.

Brady violated his contract. There is no question about that. What the league chooses to do has always been beyond comprehension.

 

[Pape]

So why didn’t they suspend him or fine him? How, specifically, were his actions detrimental to the Patriots? Here are the rules:

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018%20Policies/7-2018%20Anti-Tampering%20Policy-Clean%20Version.pdf

The league? 1. I never said he should be suspended. 2. Its not the leagues purview to suspend players in tampering cases.
The team? Not in their best interest to do so.
So how specifically was the conduct detrimental to New England? Simple - it lets the player know what is available as an alternative months before he should know... That weakens the Patriots negotiating position right out of the gate.

What negotiations? They waited on a response from Brady and Brady left. They didn’t extend any long term offers to Brady multiple times in the lead-up to the 2020 season. The team had multiple chances to lock him up, and didn’t.

What negotiations? Interesting you frame it that way ... So he didnt bother to respond to the contract offer the Patriots put out there? Gee I wonder why... Because he already knew he'd find greener pastures out there? That he'd assuredly get a deal more to his liking? Thank you for making my point for me.

Bingo. Miami tampered. The most Brady did was respond. The Patriots with Brady made the playoffs, and had the best record in the league at one point in 2019. Brady, early in 2019, was leaps and bounds the best QB in the league after the contact with Miami. There is no evidence whatsoever that this was detrimental to the New England Patriots.

The most he did was respond? By respond you mean have multiple, serious discussions with another team while under contract with the Patriots...

Weaksauce. The NFL can certainly suspend Brady if they felt he did anything wrong. See Deflategate. But he didn’t. It’s right there in the rules you keep pointing to.

Weaksauce? The difference being that the ability to suspend a player for tampering is not part of the collectively bargained for CBA. You yourself posted the policy. So how is it weaksauce? Its not. It simply is what it is.

You mean the ones about Brady serving as an executive in Miami, and “perhaps” playing for the team? Before he went on to start out 8-0 for the Patriots? Before he signed in Tampa? Are those the dealings that were so detrimental to the team?

Absolutely, 100%, especially since we know that it wasn't just one contact. It was multiple contacts that moved beyond the ownership talk...

The team filing tampering charges is irrelevant to the question I asked you. You’re merely attempting to move the goal posts. Why isn’t the LEAGUE suspending him or fining him if the rules so clearly specify that what he did was conduct detrimental, which was your original argument? Try to answer that question without guesswork or conspiracy.

Move the goal posts? That's quite literally impossible... My whole point has been that Brady was a **** for talking to the dolphins to the detriment of the Patriots... and agreed - the filing tampering charges is irrelevant now - because the Patriots didn't learn about it until 4 years had passed. But four years ago? If they did? Means we get into the first round...

Well, he agrees with your take. In your own words that you directed at me a couple of weeks ago: “nuff said.”

Haven't read what he said, so I cant speak to that.

As for the "nuff said" ... lol ... good to see that had its intended effect.

 

[Kontradiction]

Brady violated his contract. There is no question about that. What the league chooses to do has always been beyond comprehension.

There is very much a question about it. If you don’t believe so, show me the following:

1. His contract.

2. The specific rule he violated (I’ve linked the rules a few times already).

3. The transcript of his conversations with Beal.

And before you respond “just search for it,” I did. Couldn’t find all three. So help me out here.

 

[Ring 6]

There is very much a question about it. If you don’t believe so, show me the following:

1. His contract.

2. The specific rule he violated (I’ve linked the rules a few times already).

3. The transcript of his conversations with Beal.

And before you respond “just search for it,” I did. Couldn’t find all three. So help me out here.

The contract has language about acting only in the best interest of the team.
I think it’s clear that if there were ongoing conversations over the preseason, season and post season it wasn’t just Miami calling and Brady saying I can’t talk to you. Of course the transcript of the conversation is not available.

The rule you linked is the rule that applies to the teams. As we learn when Brady was railroaded just because there are rules affected teams, it doesn’t mean there are not also additional rules for players.

The discussions couldn’t last all season and post season of Brady wasn’t engaged in them.

 

[Pape]

So he just denied it means it didnt happen? Are you that gullible?

Are you so gullible that you believe every rumor that gets printed? Or is it just the ones you want to believe? Simple point of order is - he is still here.

Yes, he would. McDaniels and Zeigler have complete control in Vegas and hes not nearly as established as BB.

Was Oakland/Las Vegas on that list? No, I don't believe it was. Answer me this - was Las Vegas looking to replace both HC & GM? I believe they were - Different team, Different team needs. Strawman away, i guess.

No, the difference is I know everybody acts like a **** and dont care about any of it. I just dont care for the hypocrites. Just like im sure you excuse Spygate, as every other team did it...Just because it was the Patriots and your team

Oh... Right... You have high moral standards then, unbending in your principals ... but you dont care about Bradys behavior... because why? (I'm beginning to see a whole load of manure being spread here) ... Don't bradys actions speak to him being a hypocrite? Double dealing with another team while under contract... but you dont care for hypocrites ... wait... what... lol

Your intellect is dazzling

What a bastion of logical thought and purity you are... Maybe change your user name to The High Sparrow so we can all bask in your enlightened state of being?

 

[All3Phases]

Are you so gullible that you believe every rumor that gets printed? Or is it just the ones you want to believe? Simple point of order is - he is still here.

And Brady didnt go to Miami.

Was Oakland/Las Vegas on that list? No, I don't believe it was. Answer me this - was Las Vegas looking to replace both HC & GM? I believe they were - Different team, Different team needs. Strawman away, i guess.

No I pointed out a team that gave a guy, with MUCH less stature full control of a team, you didnt think BB could get that.

Oh... Right... You have high moral standards then, unbending in your principals ... but you dont care about Bradys behavior... because why? (I'm beginning to see a whole load of manure being spread here) ... Don't bradys actions speak to him being a hypocrite? Double dealing with another team while under contract... but you dont care for hypocrites ... wait... what... lol

Like I said, Im sure you were at the front of the gates to defend the team and Bill from Spygate. Im sure you claimed it happened everywhere to every team. Correct me if im wrong.

Your intellect is dazzling

What a bastion of logical thought and purity you are... Maybe change your user name to The High Sparrow so we can all bask in your enlightened state of being?

Thank you

 

[Kontradiction]

The league? 1. I never said he should be suspended.

Because you can’t. Because there’s no proof whatsoever that his conduct was detrimental.

2. Its not the leagues purview to suspend players in tampering cases.

Sure they can. It’s specifically stated right in the same rules you’ve been pointing to throughout this thread. Section 3, subsection B.

The team? Not in their best interest to do so.

Why not? After all, his conduct was detrimental to the team, was it not?

So how specifically was the conduct detrimental to New England? Simple - it lets the player know what is available as an alternative months before he should know... That weakens the Patriots negotiating position right out of the gate.

The entire world knew he was going to be a free agent after the team neglected to sign him to a long-term deal following the 2017 and 2018 seasons.

What negotiations? Interesting you frame it that way ... So he didnt bother to respond to the contract offer the Patriots put out there? Gee I wonder why... Because he already knew he'd find greener pastures out there? That he'd assuredly get a deal more to his liking? Thank you for making my point for me.

The Patriots didn’t put a contract offer out there.

Report: Patriots never extended a contract offer to Tom Brady in free agency

We're starting to get a clearer picture of how Brady's departure from New England went down.

www.masslive.com

The most he did was respond? By respond you, mean have multiple, serious discussions with another team while under contract with the Patriots...

Post the transcripts, please.

Weaksauce? The difference being that the ability to suspend a player for tampering is not part of the collectively bargained for CBA. You yourself posted the policy. So how is it weaksauce? Its not. It simply is what it is.

They could have used the section and subsection to suspend or fine Brady quite easily if they felt that his level of involvement was egregious. They suspended him because they ignored the Ideal Gas Law, after all. They didn’t. As a matter of fact, they specifically said:

"The investigators found tampering violations of unprecedented scope and severity," Goodell said. "I know of no prior instance of a team violating the prohibition on tampering with both a head coach and star player, to the potential detriment of multiple other clubs, over a period of several years. Similarly, I know of no prior instance in which ownership was so directly involved in the violations."

Notice how there is nothing in there about either Brady or Payton?

Absolutely, 100%, especially since we know that it wasn't just one contact. It was multiple contacts that moved beyond the ownership talk...

Transcripts?

Move the goal posts? That's quite literally impossible... My whole point has been that Brady was a **** for talking to the dolphins to the detriment of the Patriots... and agreed - the filing tampering charges is irrelevant now - because the Patriots didn't learn about it until 4 years had passed. But four years ago? If they did? Means we get into the first round...

1. It was in August 2019 - 3 years ago.

2. You’re contradicting yourself here. Earlier in your post, you specifically said “it wasn’t in the team’s best interest” to act on that info - suspend him, file tampering charges, etc.

3. You still have not established how any of this contact was detrimental to the Patriots, outside of a supposed contract that they offered Brady which is very much in dispute.

Haven't read what he said, so I cant speak to that.

As for the "nuff said" ... lol ... good to see that had its intended effect.

Not sure what the intended effect was supposed to be.

 

[Kontradiction]

The contract has language about acting only in the best interest of the team.
I think it’s clear that if there were ongoing conversations over the preseason, season and post season it wasn’t just Miami calling and Brady saying I can’t talk to you. Of course the transcript of the conversation is not available.

If the transcript is not available, then how is any of that “clear?” Moreover, how is it clear that Brady was not acting in the best interest of the team?

The rule you linked is the rule that applies to the teams. As we learn when Brady was railroaded just because there are rules affected teams, it doesn’t mean there are not also additional rules for players.

So which rule did he violate, and how do you intend to prove that he violated it beyond a reasonable doubt if you cannot produce any of the three items I asked you for?

The discussions couldn’t last all season and post season of Brady wasn’t engaged in them.

People can text, email, or call someone who is stonewalling them. Happens all the time. Now, produce some evidence outside of guesswork or conspiracy that Brady was actually engaged with Miami. At this point, I’ll even accept a quote from an NFL official.

 

[Pape]

And Brady didnt go to Miami.

Irrelevant.

No I pointed out a team that gave a guy, with MUCH less stature full control of a team, you didnt think BB could get that.

No, you pointed out a team that fired both its head Coach and General Manager.

Like I said, Im sure you were at the front of the gates to defend the team and Bill from Spygate. Im sure you claimed it happened everywhere to every team. Correct me if im wrong.

Yup. Sure did. Also pointed out that other teams did the same thing. What was your take on spygate?

Thank you

YW

 

[Kontradiction]

Irrelevant.

No, you pointed out a team that fired both its head Coach and General Manager.


Yup. Sure did. Also pointed out that other teams did the same thing. What was your take on spygate?


YW

Perhaps you’ve explained this and I just missed it. But how is the fact that Brady went to Tampa instead of Miami “irrelevant” in the context of your argument? I mean, you’re arguing that the conversations were detailed and ongoing between Brady and Miami in the absence of fact. The end result is far from irrelevant.

 

[All3Phases]

Irrelevant.

It is extremely relevant to what you are crying about. When I posted that BB spoke with other teams years ago, you didnt care because nothing came of it. Nothing came of Brady speaking with Miami either. So what are you upset about?