Desmond Howard SB kick return - holding?

[sb1]

Never noticed this before.

Not that Vinatieri likely catches Howard at full speed but he was still the last guy and looks to me like they might have gotten away with one here.
Huh.

 

[Pape]

Or a block to the back?

was that even a rule back then?

oh well... they aint bringing the trophy to foxboro... id rather not be a rams fan and continuously wallow in misery over what coulda beens

 

[Triumph]

Jambalayagate

 

[Triumph]

Why kick it to him?

 

[Pape]

Why kick it to him?

hason graham whiffing on the tackle... quarter second too late... coulda stopped him

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Why kick it to him?

This was either Vinatieri’s fault for not continuing with the game plan of not kicking it to Howard or the pats coaching staff changed things up foolishly.

If you watch the actual footage, you can see there was no penalty. Those screenshots by the OP are misleading

 

[sb1]

This was either Vinatieri’s fault for not continuing with the game plan of not kicking it to Howard or the pats coaching staff changed things up foolishly.

If you watch the actual footage, you can see there was no penalty. Those screenshots by the OP are misleading

Sure looked like holding to me looking at the screenshots. Nothing misleading about that. Flags are thrown lots of times on a bang-bang play that isn't obvious in real time.

Also you picked a couple of Super Bowls which weren't really dominated by defense - in one game they allowed 350+ passing yards to Donovan McNabb including 122 yards on 14 catches to a guy recovering from a broken leg and before that a record-setting QB passing performance in another one. Super Bowl 49 was offense backed up by clutch plays (the obvious one in particular) on defense. Super Bowl 53 was defense backed up by clutch plays on offense.

 

[Patriot Missile]

2001 took the sting off of that one just a short time later. That 96 team was very good but it just wasn’t ready yet. Very young squad. Greenbay was the best team that year and the better team won. NE did keep it close and interesting despite some bone headed interceptions and a very bad blown coverage vs Robert Brooks? Can’t reverse what happened just like with the Ohara hold on Seymour in 07.

 

[italian pat patriot]

That play killed me

 

[Patriot Missile]

Sure looked like holding to me looking at the screenshots. Nothing misleading about that. Flags are thrown lots of times on a bang-bang play that isn't obvious in real time.

Also you picked a couple of Super Bowls which weren't really won by defense - in one game they allowed 350+ passing yards to Donovan McNabb including 122 yards on 14 catches to a guy recovering from a broken leg and before that a record-setting QB passing performance in another one. Super Bowl 49 was offense backed up by clutch plays (the obvious one in particular) on defense. Super Bowl 53 was defense backed up by clutch plays on offense.

Shabby defense in 38. But 39 they seemed to control the flow of the game. Although McNabb threw for 357 and 3 TD’s, he also threw 3 picks and 21 incompletions which the Pats defense definitely were a part of.

Meanwhile Brady threw for 236 yards with 2 tds and a mistake free 0 ints with Dillon pitching 75 yards and a td. Overall it was just a big team win all around.

 

[Ian]

If you watch the actual footage, you can see there was no penalty. Those screenshots by the OP are misleading

LOL, those of us who are older and watched it live would disagree with you. Those screenshots aren't at all misleading. Many of us felt the same way at the time and having seen Vinatieri previously drag down Hershel Walker, he had some pretty good wheels and might have had a chance to get to him or at least slow him down.

Again, what's done is done, but the decision and the non-call, as well as the outcome, had a lot of us frustrated.

 

[Pape]

LOL, those of us who are older and watched it live would disagree with you. Those screenshots aren't at all misleading. Many of us felt the same way at the time and having seen Vinatieri previously drag down Hershel Walker, he had some pretty good wheels and might have had a chance to get to him or at least slow him down.

Again, what's done is done, but the decision and the non-call, as well as the outcome, had a lot of us frustrated.

And it further exacerbated the situation with Parcels have a side piece stashed away in the swamps of Jersey...

 

[sb1]

LOL, those of us who are older and watched it live would disagree with you. Those screenshots aren't at all misleading. Many of us felt the same way at the time and having seen Vinatieri previously drag down Hershel Walker, he had some pretty good wheels and might have had a chance to get to him or at least slow him down.

Again, what's done is done, but the decision and the non-call, as well as the outcome, had a lot of us frustrated.

That is true! Maybe I should not write off the idea he could have caught him....

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

LOL, those of us who are older and watched it live would disagree with you. Those screenshots aren't at all misleading. Many of us felt the same way at the time and having seen Vinatieri previously drag down Hershel Walker, he had some pretty good wheels and might have had a chance to get to him or at least slow him down.

Again, what's done is done, but the decision and the non-call, as well as the outcome, had a lot of us frustrated.

I would ask Adam.

We weren't going to get calls. That's just typical. We're the Patriots.

Sometimes we got officials who went ahead and made the right call anyway, who just did their job.

IMO our fate was sealed when the coaches decided to put the game in the big kid's hands. Trying hard is nice, but there just never was a there there with Drew. And of course I don't blame Max, either. Nobody can block White.

Our defense did its job, except for bombs to Rison & Freeman.

We had to pound them with Martin & Meggett. Dave already had a busy day, with nine returns, but it's the Super Bowl. You run Martin, you win. It's what the Cowboys did with Thomas, and they finally won one.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'll preface by saying the 1996 and 1997 Packers were the closest to a Pro Bowl team we saw since the early 90's Cowboys. However, what we didn't know was that Brett Favre was going to become a perennial choke artist.

Had Parcells had his head in the right place, the Pats may have had a shot at an upset. On the other hand, their defense really struggled against west coast type offenses.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

And it further exacerbated the situation with Parcels have a side piece stashed away in the swamps of Jersey...

It didn't help. Bill obviously couldn't wait to get get away from Kraft. Win or lose. I suppose it's a **** move, but I know how Robert can be obstinate and obtuse (see flying elvis, FakeGates I, II, III).

I don't think it had any effect on the outcome.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I'll preface by saying the 1996 and 1997 Packers were the closest to a Pro Bowl team we saw since the early 90's Cowboys. However, what we didn't know was that Brett Favre was going to become a perennial choke artist.

Had Parcells had his head in the right place, the Pats may have had a shot at an upset. On the other hand, their defense really struggled against west coast type offenses.

To have had a chance at an upset, the '96 Pats had to do one or two things different.

The '85 Pats had to do three or four things different, none of which Berry was going to do.

One of those is, rise to the moment.

Berry was a players' coach, but sometimes you've gotta crack the whip. This isn't tiddlywinks. The Bears were an historically dominant team.

Valvano's locker room speech to the players before the title game vs. Houston is as legendary as Brooks'.

"Slow it down? F*ck that!!!" We're taking it right to them!! We're playing OUR game!!"

Our game in 1985 was running the ball. Most teams that year would get behind and give up on it. Losing Dawson was one of the things that killed us that day.

 

[sb1]

I would ask Adam.

We weren't going to get calls. That's just typical. We're the Patriots.

Sometimes we got officials who went ahead and made the right call anyway, who just did their job.

IMO our fate was sealed when the coaches decided to put the game in the big kid's hands. Trying hard is nice, but there just never was a there there with Drew. And of course I don't blame Max, either. Nobody can block White.

Our defense did its job, except for bombs to Rison & Freeman.

We had to pound them with Martin & Meggett. Dave already had a busy day, with nine returns, but it's the Super Bowl. You run Martin, you win. It's what the Cowboys did with Thomas, and they finally won one.

Tough game for Milloy I think he was the one beaten on the Freeman TD. Rison TD looked like Otis

 

[denverpatsfan]

Feck Parcels. Best player on the field that day barely got any touches. Curtis Martin.

 

[Ian]

That is true! Maybe I should not write off the idea he could have caught him....

I was actually agreeing with you and disagreeing with the person who felt you were wrong for even thinking it might have been a penalty