Florio: League destroyed their PSI measurements

[TomPatriot]

When they refused to publish the data, everyone knew. It was just a question of who was willing to admit that they'd been wrong.

They think they're never wrong and they are arrogant AF, even after they lose.

 

[XLIX]

He, himself, is close to billionaire status. Never mind the revenue that his wife still gets from all the modeling she did.. She's been the one of the top 5 paid (if not the top paid) models for like 20 years now..

Your estimate for Brady's net worth is significantly higher than the overall general consensus. I am not going to get into a "who's right who's wrong" argument other than to point out that the overwhelming consensus (from people who know these things) puts Brady at the $250 to $400 million range and the 2 of them combined do not reach $1 billion.

They simply don't have the money to be majority holder in an NFL team. They could most certainly put together a group if they wanted, but can't do it alone.

 

[XLIX]

They could have forced him to sell the team. Like what they did with Jerry Richardson in Carolina.

Doubtful. Richardson was an entirely different case because he was guilty of misconduct, creating a hostile work environment, sexual harassment and racism.

 

[XLIX]

Al Davis is not an owner you should ever aspire to emulate for his last few decades and it’s intellectually dishonest to not recognize that the NFL in 2015 was an immeasurably larger power house than it was when Al Davis took it on.

The League is an immeasurably larger power house but so is each individual team. If the overall pie gets bigger than each individual slice gets bigger by the same proportion. Al Davis was 1 versus 27. A modern day lawsuit would be 1 versus 31. Those are reasonably equivalent odds.

Al Davis was a constant thorn in the Commissioner's side. I sure wish we still had one of him today.

 

[venecol]

They could have forced him to sell the team. Like what they did with Jerry Richardson in Carolina.

Nah. I don't believe that. Kraft is too smart. It took him a long time to make it into the inner circle of the owners. He wasn't about to piss it all away over a fight he knew he couldn't win.

He did enough (website, letter to Goodell) to appease the fans (not enough for many), but he made a business decision to make sure he stayed within the clique of influential owners.

Luckily it payed off, after he fell in love with Mingbi down in So Fl and came away unscathed.

 

[Pape]

Doubtful. Richardson was an entirely different case because he was guilty of misconduct, creating a hostile work environment, sexual harassment and racism.

Doubtful? Maybe.

Would you be willing to risk a four billion dollar franchise on that theory?

I wouldn't.

 

[Pape]

Nah. I don't believe that. Kraft is too smart. It took him a long time to make it into the inner circle of the owners. He wasn't about to piss it all away over a fight he knew he couldn't win.

He did enough (website, letter to Goodell) to appease the fans (not enough for many), but he made a business decision to make sure he stayed within the clique of influential owners.

Luckily it payed off, after he fell in love with Mingbi down in So Fl and came away unscathed.

I'm not saying it was probable, only possible.

As I said, it was my own belief that he was threatened. I have absolutely nothing to back that up with though.

 

[XLIX]

Doubtful? Maybe.

Would you be willing to risk a four billion dollar franchise on that theory?

I wouldn't.

Then I guess you're the type to eagerly kowtow to Goodell. At least you admit where you stand.

 

[Pape]

Then I guess you're the type to eagerly kowtow to Goodell. At least you admit where you stand.

Sometimes you got to learn how to read a room there Rambo. Some decisions are bigger than the ones you'd typically make

For Kraft, it's not make-believe. It a decision that could quite possibly affect the lives of thousands of people.

But hey i guess common sense doesn't play a part in it for a macho never back down keyboard warrior such as yourself

 

[h0c2000]

Say what you will about Kraft backing down.

New England Patriots value 2014 $2,600,000,000.00
New England Patriots value 2021 $5,000,000,000.00

He's got a lot more skin in the game than all of us combined.

 

[borisman]

Say what you will about Kraft backing down.

New England Patriots value 2014 $2,600,000,000.00
New England Patriots value 2021 $5,000,000,000.00

He's got a lot more skin in the game than all of us combined.

.05% of that would figure be life changing to me right now. I guess he needs to buy more skin as an 80-year old

 

[QuantumMechanic]

No - only applies to public companies.

If there is active litigation, then despoliation of evidence may become an issue. But I don't think there was any active litigation at the time.

My own take (from having read pretty much everything on the topic, including new Seth Wickersham book), is that the Patriots, including Brady and Kraft, weren't certain what Jastremski may or may not have done in the bathroom. We know that Brady liked the balls on the low side, and so it is quite plausible Jastremski routinely let out a bit of pressure before games. They still might well have been within regulation pressure before the ideal gas law did its thing though.

I've been surprised there hasn't been more leaking from the NFL offices - usually once people leave they are happy to screw their old bosses.

There absolutely was active litigation in 2015 (when Florio says Pash destroyed evidence) -- Brady wasn't suspended until 2016 as the case finally ended during the summer of 2016 when Brady chose not to appeal the Second Circuit's decision.

And I know it is highly unpopular around here, but I totally believe Jastremski and the other guy had hatched some scheme. Their excuses about their text messages are not credible at all.

I'm basically on the same tack you are:
* NE submits the balls at the lowest allowable pressure of 12.5psi.
* The refs do whatever they do with the ball. As we know from the texts the refs sometimes pump them up.
* Jastremski & co check the balls when the refs are done.
* Possible option A: if the refs have inflated them to over 13.5, Jastremski brings them down to 13.5.
* Possible option B: if the refs inflated them at all (i.e. they are anything over the 12.5 NE submitted them at) Jastremski deflates them down to 12.5.
* And finally, no changes were made to the balls in the AFCCG -- the NFL's own bought & paid for numbers from their "second-hand smoke is fine!" consultants prove the balls were right in line with science within the margin of error of the gauges the refs used. Presumably NE submitted at 12.5 and the refs left them alone that night.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It IS relevant because it goes to the NFLs penchant for lying to the detriment of the Patriots. While we KNOW what would happen, that data would have exonerated the Patriots. Destroying that sort of evidence and claiming that they "didn't actually record the PSI of the game balls at different stadiums" when they said they were doing so only reinforces that narrative.

Not just that, but Judge Chin of the Second Circuit even said that "evidence was overwhelming" at the balls had been tampered with. He would have had quite the different take had the evidence that Pash destroyed been before him during the appeal.

 

[XLIX]

Sometimes you got to learn how to read a room there Rambo. Some decisions are bigger than the ones you'd typically make

For Kraft, it's not make-believe. It a decision that could quite possibly affect the lives of thousands of people.

But hey i guess common sense doesn't play a part in it for a macho never back down keyboard warrior such as yourself

Wow. Looks like I hit a nerve there.

This is a football forum. Don't take it so seriously.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

you can disagree all you want

Judge Bermans original ruling, which I agreed with, was overturned on an appellate level by the 2nd circuit. The majority opinion, which I also disagree with, stated herr goodell acted within his scope of powers, and acted within established labor law in doing so. At that point, there was no chance the soctus was going to hear the case.

In my opinion - There is no question Brady and the Patriots got screwed. There is no question the arbitration in this case was unfair and partial. But I also understand that life is unfair.

The other problem with appealing to SCOTUS is not knowing when the cert decision would come down. If he had appealed he likely could have kept playing. But then if SCOTUS denied cert in, say, late December, Brady's suspended for the playoffs. By not appealing Brady could take the suspension at a known time so the team could plan for it.

 

[Koma]

farkin' Denny Chin....this insulated SOB didn't even KNOW what the NFL was, nevermind what a football actually looked like. That is why the NFL had the case heard in the southern district Federal court...a stone's throw from 345 Park Ave. and all those high priced clip joints catering to politicians, judges and other movers and shakers in NYC.

Chin and John Mara went to law school together. Mara was publicly in favor of all the deflated football punishments. Chin also completely bought the NFL’s version of events. I guess it’s possible that that was a coincidence.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not just that, but Judge Chin of the Second Circuit even said that "evidence was overwhelming" at the balls had been tampered with. He would have had quite the different take had the evidence that Pash destroyed been before him during the appeal.

Don't forget, Chin said it was also "compelling" and "..and there was evidence to support a finding that Brady knew about it, consented to it, encouraged it.”

I bet he spent all but 10 minutes going over the case while he was taking a crap.

Lazy prick.

 

[Guts]

So I guess TB destroying his phone was the way to go. Look at all the false narratives and leaks from the league

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

They think they're never wrong and they are arrogant AF, even after they lose.

Wish someone had the guts to ask Goodell a tough question at his annual press conference. They would likely be a pariah afterwards and the answer would be a BS one but I can dream....
"Mr. Goodell, why did Mr Pash delete all the records of the measurements taken and if not, why have those never been released?"

 

[Pape]

Wow. Looks like I hit a nerve there.

This is a football forum. Don't take it so seriously.

hit a nerve? Nah.

Just tired of passive aggressive pussies like you taking thinly veiled pot shots