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Yesterday, every concern I raised about the rules/officiating came true


Thanks...didn't know that. I think they should enforce it during the play because protecting the feelings of other players is critical.
In college they would enforce it from the spot. Heck, in college, if you dive into the end zone unnecessarily, that's 15 yards and the TD doesn't count.

Regardless, the NFL was way too inconsistent with calling that penalty this year. It is like some crews decided to call it tight and others just completely ignored it.
 
1. If you must have a stupid taunting penalty, hedge the errors of applying it randomly, and make it less draconian. If taunting is really a concern, make it a 5 yard penalty and no automatic first down. In addition, give the player a warning, with the next one resulting in ejection. Problem solved, and the games will actually be decided by football and not refs incomplete understanding of the exchange and their ever changing sensitivity levels.
I think this is an excellent idea. Consider taunting to be a form of delay of game, which can be offensive or defensive. 5 yards, no automatic 1st down.
 
My rules changes:

Touchback on kickoff to the 20
Kickoff from 30
Every play reviewable
Narrow the goal posts

Most of these suggestions are to make it more difficult in game tying/winning FG situations at the end of games. When teams start at the 25, even with a minute left - especially if they have even just 1 timeout - it is WAY TOO EASY to move the ball to the opponents' 35 or 40 to make what is not just about a routine kick for half the league's kickers not named Folk. When you know you have 4 downs to move 35-40 yards it is very easy for more than half the teams in the NFL when you consider how hard it is to play defense in today's nfl.

Make kickoffs matter again - kickoffs used to be a great time for the kicking team to cause a fumble and get the ball back in days of yore...
That's not gonna happen. They are slowly phasing it out.
 
I think this is an excellent idea. Consider taunting to be a form of delay of game, which can be offensive or defensive. 5 yards, no automatic 1st down.
Yes taunting penalties are stupid. But the league has bigger priorities than what true football fans prefer, and what’s best for competition. Political correctness comes first and how can you live with a winner celebrating in front of a loser. Next they will take away participation trophies and ban dodgeball.
 
I think this is an excellent idea. Consider taunting to be a form of delay of game, which can be offensive or defensive. 5 yards, no automatic 1st down.

The #1 benefit to reducing all of these is simple: you get, literally, a 30-yard swing by penalizing the wrong team! A 15 yard penalty should have gone one way and instead went the other way. And sometimes the it really is a 51/49 situation where the refs believe one player crossed a line, even though both guys are jawing or pushing. We can all live with a 5 yard slap on the wrist...just like a false start penalty, it's going to infuriate the coaches.
 
Okay, so let's just start with this: I believe the better, and more worthy team, won both games. The Bucs were extremely lucky to even be in the game with FOUR fumble recoveries. The Chiefs are just one of those teams that always seems to find a way. But the games were marred in my opinion. Not the results, but the actual officiating processes and rules were a goddamned disaster once again. All year, I've made the same points over and over again, whether the Patriots, Bucs, or some other teams were playing:
  • Taunting Penalties are incredibly stupid because they're draconian, almost equaling a turnover in many cases, and mostly because the officials will never enforce them consistently, making the games even more random and based on bad calls. It's okay that bad calls happen for actual football plays, and that's hard enough to get right; now you're adding an impossible task of also interpreting dumbass trash talk that crosses an arbitrary line.
  • QB helmet to helmet hits should be reviewable, since they're also equal to a turnover when they're called. These are huge penalties, and to enforce them arbitrarily is the same as awarding turnovers arbitrarily. Why not be able to review a helmet to helmet on a QB, considering it's an automatic penalty (black and white, intent is irrelevant.) There was a Bears-Ravens game this year that was an absolute clinic in ridiculously bad, inconsistent applications of this rule.
So yesterday, let's run through what happened in the games, starting with the absolute worst, but one that we should have all seen coming:

1. After an entire season of watching stupid taunting penalties decide games, the player who was a main reason for the rule, Tyreek Hill, blatantly taunts in front of everyone, but the refs decide that isn't taunting, due to their arbitrary standards.

Tyreek Hill's "deuces" sign was arguably the biggest impetus for the rule. After Hill got leveled in SB55, Antoine Winfield, Jr. gave him the deuces and got a 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. The competition committee then passed the rule. If you Google the taunting rule, an actual photo of either Hill or Winfield is often displayed as the example, with headlines sometimes saying things like "no more deuces." Now, all year I've *****ed and moaned that taunting won't be enforced fairly because sometimes refs will just take the attitude of "oh chill, man, it's fun" and other times will blow the whistle which can be extremely costly.

So with a minute left in the AFCDG, Tyreek Hill takes off for the endzone and he's going to make it. This is a guy who has been warned repeatedly about the deuces. The entire league knows about it, and that it's now illegal. And what does he do? He does, apparently, the exact type of defiance, from a repeat offender, who would have zero surprise that his transgression will result in a penalty. And the refs do nothing. Nothing.

You've gotta be kidding me. All year, we've heard, "letter of the law" and been told taunting is serious business and it's important to enforce the rule every time. By the way (as you'll see from the Mike Evans example), the penalty should have happened during the play and not after it. A taunting penalty should have backed the Chiefs up to the 30 yard line.



2. After the officials failed to call a blatant, textbook penalty on Von Miller against Tom Brady, Brady lost his ****...but Shawn Hochuli was bigger than the game and swearing is serious business, so Brady got a 15 yard penalty.

Shawn Hochuli is a ****sucker. We all know this. After the game, he claimed that the hit "didn't rise to the level of roughing the passer" despite blood literally being drawn on an automatic helmet to helmet penalty. In fact, it arguably violated three penalties: hitting the quarterback in helmet at all, helmet to helmet, and roughing the passer.

Now again, refs miss calls. That's going to happen. But, why the hell shouldn't this play be reviewable? A 15-yard penalty is huge in the NFL. Instead, Hochuli gave Brady the 15-yard personal foul in what, I really hope, was worth it and I hope we'll one day hear about the specific wordage Brady hurled at him. I'm not excusing Brady because he should have kept his cool, but again, look at the crappy rules/process here. A major, game changing penalty that's supposed to be black and white gets doesn't get called; the team has no recourse; and then, the official just can't let it go when a player loses it.

The result was a 30-yard swing. The Bucs did get a first down but missed the field goal due to that major field position swing.





3. Matthew Stafford blatantly kicks Nkamondong Suh in the balls. Suh gets a 15 yard penalty for "language" or something.

Here we go again with this officiating crew. Forget who Suh is...I get it...he's a dirty player. But NFL rules aren't supposed to base calls on a player's past, are they? Now, just simply watch the play taking the actual player name out of it. What do you see?

Yep...Stafford gave Suh a cheap shot. And you know what? **** happens. But then, after Suh said something back, he got hit with a 15 yard penalty. **** happens back. Once again, the penalty is game changing, and if the correct call had actually been made, it's another 30-yard swing.





4. Mike Evans gets a vicious helmet to helmet hit, but a technicality means the Bucs don't keep possession.

I'm not going to argue with the application of this rule, but it's clearly a stupid rule and needs to be fixed. On fourth down, Evans was targeted down the leftt sideline and was subject to a blatant, illegal hit. Now, it was incredibly obvious that the hit was part of the play. On a roughing the passer call, the team with the ball would retain possession regardless of where the ball landed or when it landed. However, since the ball technically hit the ground first, the Rams got the ball back and the 15 yard penalty was assessed. I would even argue that the illegal act of launching began before the ball hit the ground, even if the helmet wasn't actually hit yet.

Regardless, it seems like yet another stupid application of the rules.


SUGGESTIONS

I'm going to just keep beating this drum because it's getting so hard to watch these games:

1. If you must have a stupid taunting penalty, hedge the errors of applying it randomly, and make it less draconian. If taunting is really a concern, make it a 5 yard penalty and no automatic first down. In addition, give the player a warning, with the next one resulting in ejection. Problem solved, and the games will actually be decided by football and not refs incomplete understanding of the exchange and their ever changing sensitivity levels.

2. In addition, stop the 15 yard, automatic first down for any penalty that doesn't effect the game and doesn't pose a safety threat. Taunting has made all of this worse, but penalties are stupid in general with 15 yards awarded for things that don't actually have an impact on the game. The only 15 yard penalties should be for serious injury risk plays. A hand grazing a QB's helmet or a late push should be five yards; a blatant helmet to helmet should be 15 with the first down.

3. Make every play reviewable if the determination is based on a clear, unambiguous event. I don't think every play should be reviewable because the fact is, there's always going to be some intent-based calls, "know it when you see it" calls, context calls, etc. We saw how this was a disaster with the pass interference replay attempt. However, any play where the call is based on video evidence only should be reviewable. If a helmet to helmet hit occurs, it's a penalty and should be reviewable. If the defender hit the player's chest, it should be reversible. When a quarterback gets hit in the head, it's reviewable. When the defender actually didn't hit the head, it should be reversible. When a QB is out of bounds and gets hit, it should be a penalty. When the QB was not out of bounds first (like this year with Allen on the sidelines) a penalty should be reversible.

I like your thinking.
 
Okay, so let's just start with this: I believe the better, and more worthy team, won both games. The Bucs were extremely lucky to even be in the game with FOUR fumble recoveries. The Chiefs are just one of those teams that always seems to find a way. But the games were marred in my opinion. Not the results, but the actual officiating processes and rules were a goddamned disaster once again. All year, I've made the same points over and over again, whether the Patriots, Bucs, or some other teams were playing:
  • Taunting Penalties are incredibly stupid because they're draconian, almost equaling a turnover in many cases, and mostly because the officials will never enforce them consistently, making the games even more random and based on bad calls. It's okay that bad calls happen for actual football plays, and that's hard enough to get right; now you're adding an impossible task of also interpreting dumbass trash talk that crosses an arbitrary line.
  • QB helmet to helmet hits should be reviewable, since they're also equal to a turnover when they're called. These are huge penalties, and to enforce them arbitrarily is the same as awarding turnovers arbitrarily. Why not be able to review a helmet to helmet on a QB, considering it's an automatic penalty (black and white, intent is irrelevant.) There was a Bears-Ravens game this year that was an absolute clinic in ridiculously bad, inconsistent applications of this rule.
So yesterday, let's run through what happened in the games, starting with the absolute worst, but one that we should have all seen coming:

1. After an entire season of watching stupid taunting penalties decide games, the player who was a main reason for the rule, Tyreek Hill, blatantly taunts in front of everyone, but the refs decide that isn't taunting, due to their arbitrary standards.

Tyreek Hill's "deuces" sign was arguably the biggest impetus for the rule. After Hill got leveled in SB55, Antoine Winfield, Jr. gave him the deuces and got a 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct. The competition committee then passed the rule. If you Google the taunting rule, an actual photo of either Hill or Winfield is often displayed as the example, with headlines sometimes saying things like "no more deuces." Now, all year I've *****ed and moaned that taunting won't be enforced fairly because sometimes refs will just take the attitude of "oh chill, man, it's fun" and other times will blow the whistle which can be extremely costly.

So with a minute left in the AFCDG, Tyreek Hill takes off for the endzone and he's going to make it. This is a guy who has been warned repeatedly about the deuces. The entire league knows about it, and that it's now illegal. And what does he do? He does, apparently, the exact type of defiance, from a repeat offender, who would have zero surprise that his transgression will result in a penalty. And the refs do nothing. Nothing.

You've gotta be kidding me. All year, we've heard, "letter of the law" and been told taunting is serious business and it's important to enforce the rule every time. By the way (as you'll see from the Mike Evans example), the penalty should have happened during the play and not after it. A taunting penalty should have backed the Chiefs up to the 30 yard line.



2. After the officials failed to call a blatant, textbook penalty on Von Miller against Tom Brady, Brady lost his ****...but Shawn Hochuli was bigger than the game and swearing is serious business, so Brady got a 15 yard penalty.

Shawn Hochuli is a ****sucker. We all know this. After the game, he claimed that the hit "didn't rise to the level of roughing the passer" despite blood literally being drawn on an automatic helmet to helmet penalty. In fact, it arguably violated three penalties: hitting the quarterback in helmet at all, helmet to helmet, and roughing the passer.

Now again, refs miss calls. That's going to happen. But, why the hell shouldn't this play be reviewable? A 15-yard penalty is huge in the NFL. Instead, Hochuli gave Brady the 15-yard personal foul in what, I really hope, was worth it and I hope we'll one day hear about the specific wordage Brady hurled at him. I'm not excusing Brady because he should have kept his cool, but again, look at the crappy rules/process here. A major, game changing penalty that's supposed to be black and white gets doesn't get called; the team has no recourse; and then, the official just can't let it go when a player loses it.

The result was a 30-yard swing. The Bucs did get a first down but missed the field goal due to that major field position swing.





3. Matthew Stafford blatantly kicks Nkamondong Suh in the balls. Suh gets a 15 yard penalty for "language" or something.

Here we go again with this officiating crew. Forget who Suh is...I get it...he's a dirty player. But NFL rules aren't supposed to base calls on a player's past, are they? Now, just simply watch the play taking the actual player name out of it. What do you see?

Yep...Stafford gave Suh a cheap shot. And you know what? **** happens. But then, after Suh said something back, he got hit with a 15 yard penalty. **** happens back. Once again, the penalty is game changing, and if the correct call had actually been made, it's another 30-yard swing.





4. Mike Evans gets a vicious helmet to helmet hit, but a technicality means the Bucs don't keep possession.

I'm not going to argue with the application of this rule, but it's clearly a stupid rule and needs to be fixed. On fourth down, Evans was targeted down the leftt sideline and was subject to a blatant, illegal hit. Now, it was incredibly obvious that the hit was part of the play. On a roughing the passer call, the team with the ball would retain possession regardless of where the ball landed or when it landed. However, since the ball technically hit the ground first, the Rams got the ball back and the 15 yard penalty was assessed. I would even argue that the illegal act of launching began before the ball hit the ground, even if the helmet wasn't actually hit yet.

Regardless, it seems like yet another stupid application of the rules.


SUGGESTIONS

I'm going to just keep beating this drum because it's getting so hard to watch these games:

1. If you must have a stupid taunting penalty, hedge the errors of applying it randomly, and make it less draconian. If taunting is really a concern, make it a 5 yard penalty and no automatic first down. In addition, give the player a warning, with the next one resulting in ejection. Problem solved, and the games will actually be decided by football and not refs incomplete understanding of the exchange and their ever changing sensitivity levels.

2. In addition, stop the 15 yard, automatic first down for any penalty that doesn't effect the game and doesn't pose a safety threat. Taunting has made all of this worse, but penalties are stupid in general with 15 yards awarded for things that don't actually have an impact on the game. The only 15 yard penalties should be for serious injury risk plays. A hand grazing a QB's helmet or a late push should be five yards; a blatant helmet to helmet should be 15 with the first down.

3. Make every play reviewable if the determination is based on a clear, unambiguous event. I don't think every play should be reviewable because the fact is, there's always going to be some intent-based calls, "know it when you see it" calls, context calls, etc. We saw how this was a disaster with the pass interference replay attempt. However, any play where the call is based on video evidence only should be reviewable. If a helmet to helmet hit occurs, it's a penalty and should be reviewable. If the defender hit the player's chest, it should be reversible. When a quarterback gets hit in the head, it's reviewable. When the defender actually didn't hit the head, it should be reversible. When a QB is out of bounds and gets hit, it should be a penalty. When the QB was not out of bounds first (like this year with Allen on the sidelines) a penalty should be reversible.

Thanks for all the work :thumbsup:
 
I kind of got the feeling the Brady call was a makeup call for the blatant OPI on the previous play by Evans. That play was 10x worse than Troy Brown’s OPI in 2006 AFC championship.
 
Ice..your pal Joe here...look, we're in the middle of "THE PANDEMIC!!!! WE'RE GONNA DIE UNLESS WE WEAR MASKS!!!!"...we got a numbnutz here who has posted thousands of these screaming whackjob idiocies the last 2 years. It dawns on me that, well, masks being mandatory, you could put on one of those "Killa Gorilla" masks on and drive your rented pickup truck right down Park Avenue in NYC...I know there's a ton of crazy traffic but so what if you happen to run a certain idiotic redheaded corporate criminal over just as he exits 345 Park Avenue? It'd just be an accident...terrible I know but...well...it's always anything can happen day, you know...so who would give 2 shyts? Later on you can address the NFL owners with your ideas and apply for the vacant commissioner spot. I know you'd get a ton of fan support.

Just a thought...
 
I mentioned this in the Bucs-Rams thread: some of the penalties complained about here could have been avoided had players shown restraint and kept their composure. How many times have we seen the guy reacting or retaliating "unjustly" flagged? That's the one officials ALWAYS see. Suh and Brady could have been 100-percent right claiming transgression yet 100-percent wrong in how they handled it. Brady, especially, should have known better -- you can't aggressively abuse a ref on the field. That sort of nonsense has to be nipped in the bud or else you're inviting chaos.
 
I mentioned this in the Bucs-Rams thread: some of the penalties complained about here could have been avoided had players shown restraint and kept their composure. How many times have we seen the guy reacting or retaliating "unjustly" flagged? That's the one officials ALWAYS see. Suh and Brady could have been 100-percent right claiming transgression yet 100-percent wrong in how they handled it. Brady, especially, should have known better -- you can't aggressively abuse a ref on the field. That sort of nonsense has to be nipped in the bud or else you're inviting chaos.
Brady was BLEEDING from the mouth...the idiot ref wouldn't call it...he SAW it. How about HE gets fired post game..immediately. The one negative from this exciting weekend was the absolute abhorrent performances from the NFL refs crews
 
Brady was BLEEDING from the mouth...the idiot ref wouldn't call it...he SAW it. How about HE gets fired post game..immediately. The one negative from this exciting weekend was the absolute abhorrent performances from the NFL refs crews

That's not the point, Joe. It happened in a split second, the ref calls what he sees and replay doesn't show a blatant helmet-to-helmet hit or late hit. Apparently, the helmet slid up Brady's pads high enough to nick him in the lip which is what he complained about. Maybe it could've been called but it wasn't obvious in real time and the play was over. Is the ref then supposed to throw a flag after the fact based on the player's complaint? I'm not saying Brady was wrong in protesting the non-call, but he hurt his team drawing a penalty for going overboard and absolutely should have known better.
 
Brady was BLEEDING from the mouth...the idiot ref wouldn't call it...he SAW it. How about HE gets fired post game..immediately. The one negative from this exciting weekend was the absolute abhorrent performances from the NFL refs crews
Drawing blood isn’t a penalty though. I don’t see a penalty in the hit.
As far as the flag on Brady my opinion is that kind of response toward a ref consistently would destroy the product. Just look at WR/DB. There are a dozen of cases of those players expecting a flag every game. If they are allowed to get in the refs face and scream at him to try to get them to change the call you have anarchy.
I get that some might say give Brady a pass because he was pissed about the play but my take is on the rule and if you don’t enforce it you get bedlam.
After 22 years Brady knows that, knows better, and thats why he never did it before.
 
Drawing blood isn’t a penalty though. I don’t see a penalty in the hit.
As far as the flag on Brady my opinion is that kind of response toward a ref consistently would destroy the product. Just look at WR/DB. There are a dozen of cases of those players expecting a flag every game. If they are allowed to get in the refs face and scream at him to try to get them to change the call you have anarchy.
I get that some might say give Brady a pass because he was pissed about the play but my take is on the rule and if you don’t enforce it you get bedlam.
After 22 years Brady knows that, knows better, and thats why he never did it before.
Brady got hit in the head. THAT is illegal. You going to argue THIS?
 
Brady got hit in the head. THAT is illegal. You going to argue THIS?
The hit was to his chest/shoulder and after the hit Miller slid up and contacted around the chin.
My understanding is that is not an illegal hit, as initial, forcible, contact must be to the head area.
 
Ice..your pal Joe here...look, we're in the middle of "THE PANDEMIC!!!! WE'RE GONNA DIE UNLESS WE WEAR MASKS!!!!"...we got a numbnutz here who has posted thousands of these screaming whackjob idiocies the last 2 years. It dawns on me that, well, masks being mandatory, you could put on one of those "Killa Gorilla" masks on and drive your rented pickup truck right down Park Avenue in NYC...I know there's a ton of crazy traffic but so what if you happen to run a certain idiotic redheaded corporate criminal over just as he exits 345 Park Avenue? It'd just be an accident...terrible I know but...well...it's always anything can happen day, you know...so who would give 2 shyts? Later on you can address the NFL owners with your ideas and apply for the vacant commissioner spot. I know you'd get a ton of fan support.

Just a thought...

I love it, man. For some reason, I always veer into the direction of ginger haired scum.
 
That's not the point, Joe. It happened in a split second, the ref calls what he sees and replay doesn't show a blatant helmet-to-helmet hit or late hit. Apparently, the helmet slid up Brady's pads high enough to nick him in the lip which is what he complained about. Maybe it could've been called but it wasn't obvious in real time and the play was over. Is the ref then supposed to throw a flag after the fact based on the player's complaint? I'm not saying Brady was wrong in protesting the non-call, but he hurt his team drawing a penalty for going overboard and absolutely should have known better.

Really, this is my entire point: a play like this should be reviewable. Either video evidence is conclusive or it isn’t. A play was made. Depending on whether or not the helmet hit the other helmet, there are big consequences for each team. It’s no different from whether a ball hit the ground or a fingertip grazed a ball or a toe touched the sideline. Since this is a 15 yard penalty and first down, and it’s not open to interpretation, it should be challengeable. If they had thrown the flag, and Miller hadn’t hit his helmet, the Rams should be able to challenge as well.
 
you gys see what YOU see I see what I see...hit to the head is a penalty...unless Goodell has destroyed the application of this rule too...15 yards by the moron ref should be an arrestable offense...jeezus krist

 
Really, this is my entire point: a play like this should be reviewable. Either video evidence is conclusive or it isn’t. A play was made. Depending on whether or not the helmet hit the other helmet, there are big consequences for each team. It’s no different from whether a ball hit the ground or a fingertip grazed a ball or a toe touched the sideline. Since this is a 15 yard penalty and first down, and it’s not open to interpretation, it should be challengeable. If they had thrown the flag, and Miller hadn’t hit his helmet, the Rams should be able to challenge as well.

How would you go about picking and choosing which prospective penalties are reviewed to the point of possibly lodging a personal foul not called on the field? Or are you saying all plays should automatically be booth-reviewed with prospects of overruling the on-field refs? (I don't think the hit on Brady is a good example for this.)
 


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