Mahomes will never be better than Brady

[Zarozzor]

not that i disagree but this thread sounds a lot like what 49ers fans said of the brady/montana debate after super bowl 42 lol. a lot can happen

This feels different because Brady was still only 1 ring behind Montana.

Now Mahomes is 6 rings behind Brady, and has lost head to head in the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl.

 

[Wax Frog]

Will Mahomes ever be better than Mahones?

 

[amfootball]

This feels different because Brady was still only 1 ring behind Montana.

Now Mahomes is 6 rings behind Brady, and has lost head to head in the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl.

Exactly. Brady after 4 seasons as a starter was only one chip behind Montana. Brady beating Mahomes put a chasm the size of the grand canyon between the two (6 rings, 4 SB MVPs) and Brady has beaten him twice in 3 years. Brady getting to play Mahomes is really the icing on the cake for the debate.

 

[TB12GOATQB]

Agree with many that Mahomes style of play will be his undoing. Hes already been banged up. It's a matter of time before he misses another season or more. And does anyone see him running around like this in 10 plus years ? He's a great talent but people are way ahead of themselves. He'll be lucky to win 3 or 4.

 

[TB12GOATQB]

Two storylines the media needs to give up on.

1. Brady had a pedestrian day. They were up 31-9 and basically just slowed it down just to avoid a Falconesque debacle. If KC's offense was keeping pace there's nothing that indicates Brady and the Bucs couldn't have just kept scoring and passing.

2. The calls on the Chiefs defense. They were all valid. If the 2018 AFCCG was called that way the Pats would have won by a huge margin as well. Instead KC was allow to mug the Pats all day long while on the other side they were calling everything on the Pats DBs. They hold every single play. Granted they're coached up well to keep it right on the line of what the officials will normally call but Sunday they were well over the line on all of those.

You're asking the media to report accurately. Not going to happen.

 

[TB12GOATQB]

I agree with this in large part but he has 2 losses to Brady already. 2 rings taken off his finger and put on Brady. His 2 worst games of his career are his SB games. I think those are the things you are getting at which I agree with. He does not have to win 8 but after 3 seasons the chasm between him and Brady is enormous.

Imagine if those games went the other way. Brady would have 5 and Mahomes maybe 3 already! It would be a much different discussion wouldn't it.

 

[Joker]

Imagine if those games went the other way. Brady would have 5 and Mahomes maybe 3 already! It would be a much different discussion wouldn't it.

I don't "imagine" gaa gaa goony fantasy geekaloid crap like this because I'm a firm believer in being ROOTED IN REALITY... Imagine if your mother was a lesbian before your birth...YOU'D be a potted fern on a coffee table ...

 

[lancerman]

Exactly. Brady after 4 seasons as a starter was only one chip behind Montana. Brady beating Mahomes put a chasm the size of the grand canyon between the two (6 rings, 4 SB MVPs) and Brady has beaten him twice in 3 years. Brady getting to play Mahomes is really the icing on the cake for the debate.

Tbf, Brady had a whole 9 season go without a title. That does give Mahomes or anybody some wiggle room to catch up if they can win between the ages of 27 and 36.

Brady has a massive lead over everyone, but there's space. Especially when you consider that Mahomes isn't sharing a conference with a Peyton Manning type QB who will 3 times knock you out of the playoffs and in 5 occassions take the 1 seed from you.

Not that it's likely but there are some nuances and benefits that Mahomes has. The biggest issue Mahomes really has right now are 2 fold.

1. He has a blowout where he didn't get a TD in a Super Bowl. Can't say that about Brady or Montana. It would be like if Jordan got swept in a finals. It's a huge black mark on the resume and it's almost like Lebron's 2011 Finals where it's going to be held against him.

2. He lost a Super Bowl to Brady straight up. That's always going to lead to an unfavorable comparison. Mahomes could get 7 and people would still say "yeah but when the real GOAT was here, you couldn't hang".

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

As much as I hate to say it, I’ll try to be fair and consistent: Brady’s absolute dominance since 2015 makes me respect Peyton Manning’s game more. Yes - Peyton did lack the balls that Brady has, and they responded to pressure in opposite ways. Brady has about 20 legendary clutch moments in the postseason while Manning has maybe 1. But even still, I am astonished at how difficult it is in the NFL for a QB to actually remain on top (or near the top) for so many years, in the “golden age of quarterbacking.”

The rule changes have led to passer numbers, more longevity, and more overall QB-centered win/loss correlation, BUT has not led to an easier path to win multiple championships or stay on top of the league.

So with Mahomes, it’s not that he can’t catch Brady or that he necessarily needs 8 rings. It’s that I feel like I’ve seen this story so many times and am guilty myself of counting rings in advance. He’s just so, so far away from all-time greatness, even being “projected” as a top-10 all-time guy and earning mention on those types of lists.

In the last 20 years, since Brady:

• The only question about Aaron Rodgers in 2011 was “how many?” as he was on his way to five championships. He’s 0-4 in the NFCCG since then.
• Drew Brees has failed worse than Rodgers since his championship in 2009. Combined, since their Super Bowl wins, Brees and Rodgers have gone 21 seasons without winning the NFC again.
• Russell Wilson told Chris Collinsworth he wanted to win six Super Bowls and appeared to be on the verge of #2 before Butler’s interception. He hasn’t been back in the NFCCG in the six seasons since.
• Andrew Luck was “the future” and taking the tourch from Brady; he was thought to be a generational talent in a class with Manning and Elway destined for multiple championships. Anyone who thinks “the physical toll” isn’t a big problem should look no further. But also, Luck wasn’t as great as he was heralded to be and probably wouldn’t have become that much better.
• Might mention here that RG3 was possibly the most hyped QB ever after he was better than Luck In year one.
• Ben Roethlisberger was ”a big game QB” who “knows how to win.” He was headed for his 3rd Lombardi in 2010, which would have tied Brady. He was 10-2 in the playoffs at the time. He lost to the Packers, Polamalu retired and the defense faded. He is 3-7 in the playoffs since.

I’ve just seen so many “he’ll be back” guarantees and estimated ring counts that I can’t say with any certainty that Mahomes will win a handful of rings and be great for 15 years like many are predicting. Just in the last few years, significant doubts have risen for other promising stars like Wentz, Prescott, L. Jackson, etc. This really is the Not For Long league.

 

[Tony2046]

As much as I hate to say it, I’ll try to be fair and consistent: Brady’s absolute dominance since 2015 makes me respect Peyton Manning’s game more. Yes - Peyton did lack the balls that Brady has, and they responded to pressure in opposite ways. Brady has about 20 legendary clutch moments in the postseason while Manning has maybe 1. But even still, I am astonished at how difficult it is in the NFL for a QB to actually remain on top (or near the top) for so many years, in the “golden age of quarterbacking.”

The rule changes have led to passer numbers, more longevity, and more overall QB-centered win/loss correlation, BUT has not led to an easier path to win multiple championships or stay on top of the league.

So with Mahomes, it’s not that he can’t catch Brady or that he necessarily needs 8 rings. It’s that I feel like I’ve seen this story so many times and am guilty myself of counting rings in advance. He’s just so, so far away from all-time greatness, even being “projected” as a top-10 all-time guy and earning mention on those types of lists.

In the last 20 years, since Brady:

• The only question about Aaron Rodgers in 2011 was “how many?” as he was on his way to five championships. He’s 0-4 in the NFCCG since then.
• Drew Brees has failed worse than Rodgers since his championship in 2009. Combined, since their Super Bowl wins, Brees and Rodgers have gone 21 seasons without winning the NFC again.
• Russell Wilson told Chris Collinsworth he wanted to win six Super Bowls and appeared to be on the verge of #2 before Butler’s interception. He hasn’t been back in the NFCCG in the six seasons since.
• Andrew Luck was “the future” and taking the tourch from Brady; he was thought to be a generational talent in a class with Manning and Elway destined for multiple championships. Anyone who thinks “the physical toll” isn’t a big problem should look no further. But also, Luck wasn’t as great as he was heralded to be and probably wouldn’t have become that much better.
• Might mention here that RG3 was possibly the most hyped QB ever after he was better than Luck In year one.
• Ben Roethlisberger was ”a big game QB” who “knows how to win.” He was headed for his 3rd Lombardi in 2010, which would have tied Brady. He was 10-2 in the playoffs at the time. He lost to the Packers, Polamalu retired and the defense faded. He is 3-7 in the playoffs since.

I’ve just seen so many “he’ll be back” guarantees and estimated ring counts that I can’t say with any certainty that Mahomes will win a handful of rings and be great for 15 years like many are predicting. Just in the last few years, significant doubts have risen for other promising stars like Wentz, Prescott, L. Jackson, etc. This really is the Not For Long league.

Brady is such trophy hog. If Brady baked up a twenty year sized trophy pizza for the AFC, he'd take 9 slices for himself and leave the rest of the crumbs for the other fifteen teams to scrap over.

It's time to share a slice with the other clubs.

Sincerely,

The Parity Police

 

[amfootball]

As much as I hate to say it, I’ll try to be fair and consistent: Brady’s absolute dominance since 2015 makes me respect Peyton Manning’s game more. Yes - Peyton did lack the balls that Brady has, and they responded to pressure in opposite ways. Brady has about 20 legendary clutch moments in the postseason while Manning has maybe 1. But even still, I am astonished at how difficult it is in the NFL for a QB to actually remain on top (or near the top) for so many years, in the “golden age of quarterbacking.”

The rule changes have led to passer numbers, more longevity, and more overall QB-centered win/loss correlation, BUT has not led to an easier path to win multiple championships or stay on top of the league.

So with Mahomes, it’s not that he can’t catch Brady or that he necessarily needs 8 rings. It’s that I feel like I’ve seen this story so many times and am guilty myself of counting rings in advance. He’s just so, so far away from all-time greatness, even being “projected” as a top-10 all-time guy and earning mention on those types of lists.

In the last 20 years, since Brady:

• The only question about Aaron Rodgers in 2011 was “how many?” as he was on his way to five championships. He’s 0-4 in the NFCCG since then.
• Drew Brees has failed worse than Rodgers since his championship in 2009. Combined, since their Super Bowl wins, Brees and Rodgers have gone 21 seasons without winning the NFC again.
• Russell Wilson told Chris Collinsworth he wanted to win six Super Bowls and appeared to be on the verge of #2 before Butler’s interception. He hasn’t been back in the NFCCG in the six seasons since.
• Andrew Luck was “the future” and taking the tourch from Brady; he was thought to be a generational talent in a class with Manning and Elway destined for multiple championships. Anyone who thinks “the physical toll” isn’t a big problem should look no further. But also, Luck wasn’t as great as he was heralded to be and probably wouldn’t have become that much better.
• Might mention here that RG3 was possibly the most hyped QB ever after he was better than Luck In year one.
• Ben Roethlisberger was ”a big game QB” who “knows how to win.” He was headed for his 3rd Lombardi in 2010, which would have tied Brady. He was 10-2 in the playoffs at the time. He lost to the Packers, Polamalu retired and the defense faded. He is 3-7 in the playoffs since.

I’ve just seen so many “he’ll be back” guarantees and estimated ring counts that I can’t say with any certainty that Mahomes will win a handful of rings and be great for 15 years like many are predicting. Just in the last few years, significant doubts have risen for other promising stars like Wentz, Prescott, L. Jackson, etc. This really is the Not For Long league.

He also has Reid as his HC who has massive brain farts in big games. I like Veach a lot but that contract he gave Mahomes in an albatross to try and carry and build a chip team every season.

 

[mariomega]

Let Mahomes agonize like Russel Wilson.
I'm enjoying every lil second of it.

 

[amfootball]

This is interesting. Brady thinks Mahomes has a shot at trying to catch him and cites taking less money. I just don't get that. He signed a $500 million contract with $45+mil hits starting after next season. And let's face it, once Mayfield or Lamar or Lawrence gets a bigger contract than Mahomes, he will want to renegotiate.

Tom Brady thinks only Mahomes can catch him as GOAT, says McCoy (insider.com)

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Sorry for bump.

But a good possibility Mahomes wins # 2 this year.

I personally don't believe Mahomes will win 7 SB's. It's too hard. Too many variables.

So two questions:

1. Do you think Mahomes wins 7 rings?

2. Can Mahomes be considered the GOAT without winning 7 rings? For instance, let's say he ends up with 5 rings and 5 NFL MVP's.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Sorry for bump.

But a good possibility Mahomes wins # 2 this year.

I personally don't believe Mahomes will win 7 SB's. It's too hard. Too many variables.

So two questions:

1. Do you think Mahomes wins 7 rings?

2. Can Mahomes be considered the GOAT without winning 7 rings? For instance, let's say he ends up with 5 rings and 5 NFL MVP's.

1. no
2. no. 5 MVPs and 5 rings wouldn’t be enough for anything except #2 greatest. he’s always going to have the fact that he lost a shootout at home in the CCG Game to 41 year old Brady and was blown out in a SB by a 43 year old Brady. this would be like prime/peak LeBron losing to an old Jordan in a series. if he even gets close to Brady, this will always be the tiebreaker

he also has 2 TD/4 INT in his 2 super bowl games. Montana was 11/0 and Brady is 21/6

maybe he can catch Montana for the #2 spot

 

[MahomestoKelce]

1. no
2. no. 5 MVPs and 5 rings wouldn’t be enough for anything except #2 greatest. he’s always going to have the fact that he lost a shootout at home in the CCG Game to 41 year old Brady and was blown out in a SB by a 43 year old Brady. this would be like prime/peak LeBron losing to an old Jordan in a series. if he even gets close to Brady, this will always be the tiebreaker

he also has 2 TD/4 INT in his 2 super bowl games. Montana was 11/0 and Brady is 21/6

maybe he can catch Montana for the #2 spot

Even catching Montana won't be easy.

Still two games to go though.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Even catching Montana won't be easy.

Still two games to go though.

yes and if he does, that’s still amazing. Montana was considered the gold standard by most until Brady just blew him away. the talk over the last half decade of Manning and Rodgers being greater than Montana blows my mind. he’s the clear #2 unless you’re counting the old guys and want to make an argument for Graham or Unitas

 

[MahomestoKelce]

yes and if he does, that’s still amazing. Montana was considered the gold standard by most until Brady just blew him away. the talk over the last half decade of Manning and Rodgers being greater than Montana blows my mind. he’s the clear #2 unless you’re counting the old guys and want to make an argument for Graham or Unitas

Absolutely.

Btw, Rodgers is now closer to 10th all time than anywhere close to 5th. He had by far the worst performance of any QB this weekend.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Absolutely.

Btw, Rodgers is now closer to 10th all time than anywhere close to 5th. He had by far the worst performance of any QB this weekend.

the people who parrot that Rodgers is top 5 (or GOAT) are probably the same people who scream that Curry is a top 5 basketball player ever.

if I had to make a prediction, I think Mahomes finishes anywhere from 2-5. but I also only rank qb’s who played most of their career in the SB era because I’m not knowledgeable enough about the greats that came before

 

[MahomestoKelce]

the people who parrot that Rodgers is top 5 (or GOAT) are probably the same people who scream that Curry is a top 5 basketball player ever.

if I had to make a prediction, I think Mahomes finishes anywhere from 2-5. but I also only rank qb’s who played most of their career in the SB era because I’m not knowledgeable enough about the greats that came before

Therein lies the issue for me.

I can't properly judge guys from the 40's to 60's.

If Mahomes wins this year, I have to put him over Brees. And he would be closing in on Elway possibly? Idk.