PostGame Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[Rob0729]

I agree that's how you evaluate but good luck finding a $5m receiver in free agency who is better than Agholor. Not happening.

It isn't $5 million receiver. It is $5 million receiver in cap space in 2022. Personally I think they can find a much better WR than Agholor for that much cap space.

The cap is likely going to explode 2023 and beyond. We already know that the TV deals that kick in starting 2023 are significantly higher than the current deals and they still haven't sold the Sunday Ticket package which could be significantly higher because they are going to sell the streaming rights separately. I think a lot of teams are going have more backloaded contracts this free agency.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In 3 games vs us Josh Allen ran 24 times for 169 yards.

This season, before TN game:
QBs: 25 carries 48 yards (we did ok vs Herbert)

TN game and after:
QBs: 52 carries for 264 yards (this group includes (Tanny, Allen 3 times, Wentz, Tua once and Lawrence)

We sucked vs mobile QBs. No speed at LB, not enough people up front b/c everyone is in zone covering.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Good season with the rookie. The hardest thing to watch was that bum Singletary have success and run his mouth all night. Talk about horrible fantasy rb. Jeez, what a bad night for the defense.

 

[Rob0729]

not to disagree or be a contrarian, but I've read where receivers talk about Mac throwing very easy to catch balls and he just floated it up there with too much air allowing Micah to make that great play. NFL safeties are fast and can close the gap quickly. Don't know if this speaks to Mac's arm strength or choice of delivery but while I agree with your take on Agholor not fighting for the ball, I do think it floated too much for the NFL.

The thing is Agholor was streaking down the field and didn't have to stop to catch the ball. Here is the play. Agholor isn't breaking stride on the pass. That means the there wasn't too much air or it was a floater. It came down exactly when it was supposed to.



When a ball gets too much air or is a floater that allows the defender to adjust on the ball to make a play, it usually either has the receiver breaking stride to wait for the ball or the receiver is flat footed. But you are hitting the area the receiver is in stride on a deep pass, the problem isn't the ball velocity. If he threw that ball with more velocity, he would have overthrown Agholor.

 

[Patriot Missile]

In 3 games vs us Josh Allen ran 24 times for 169 yards.

This season, before TN game:
QBs: 25 carries 48 yards (we did ok vs Herbert)

TN game and after:
QBs: 52 carries for 264 yards (this group includes (Tanny, Allen 3 times, Wentz, Tua once and Lawrence)

We sucked vs mobile QBs. No speed at LB, not enough people up front b/c everyone is in zone covering.

That 169 yards for Allen is a staggering stat.just wow. If BB can’t come up with something to rectify that next year than it’s obvious he’s lost his marbles.

 

[Brotherblues]

Something weird happened last night. I don’t know how to rationalize it. This defense isn’t THAT bad. It really didn’t make sense. They looked absolutely horrendous. That was quite literally the worst defensive performance in nfl history.
But if they truly were way too slow and old, etc… there’s simply no way they could have been that effective this year. If they were so slow and old, they would have had to have been a very bad defense.
I get that a mediocre defense can unravel against great competition in the playoffs.
I don’t think you can get exposed as being the worst defense in the nfl if you were a good defense.
If I’m to believe they’re close to as bad as last night looked, it doesn’t make sense that they didn’t struggle way more this year. It’s difficult to know how to view them going into the offseason

I think we did see it in the regular season. Decent offenses faced without a big assist from weather: Cowboys, Chargers, Colts, Buffalo. In 3 of those 4 games they were throughly abused defensively. Add the playoff game and that's 4 of 5. Pretty telling.

 

[gitgronked82]

What bothers me the most is the lack of energy that came from our defense. Where was the passion?

Its ok to lose and yes its fine to get beaten down if you just arent good enough, but show some fight. They seemed so disinterested yesterday.

I really agree, which shocked me. To start, dugger could have absolutely made a play on the ball or pushed Knox out on the first td.
And I remember a play in the red zone where jc basically got out of the way of Singletary on a collision. Really disappointing.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That 169 yards for Allen is a staggering stat.just wow. If BB can’t come up with something to rectify that next year than it’s obvious he’s lost his marbles.

Only way you stop Allen from running around is....

Tight man coverage in the secondary, Make him hesitate.
Sideline to sideline speed at DE, Edge and LB
Tackle great
Containment by the DTs and DEs
Blow him up.
Pray

These are designed runs we are talking about. Just gashed. Christ.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Only way you stop Allen from running around is....

Tight man coverage in the secondary, Make him hesitate.
Sideline to sideline speed at DE, Edge and LB
Tackle great
Containment by the DTs and DEs
Blow him up.
Pray

These are designed runs we are talking about. Just gashed. Christ.

The pats used to be great at tackling running QBs...I don't think we ever saw Roethlisberger beat us with his legs they way Allen has done.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

Well, that was ugly... . Lots of decisions to make from the top down.

The remaining games will be great. Good game at 2:00. I will keep cheering for TB12.

...but yeah this game exposed us big time. This team should have no shortage of work to do between now and training camp.

Try and enjoy the playoffs gang, still lots of good football left to enjoy.

 

[50-yard-line]

Dead money is a complete misnomer. It’s all spent anyway, it’s a sunk cost.

The question is - is that extra $5m better spent by having Agholor on the roster or using it on someone else? If the answer is Agholor, you keep him. If the answer is someone else, you cut him. You don’t decide to keep someone because you might have a $10m dead cap charge if you don’t. That’s how you perpetuate bad decisions.

Finding a receiver with Agholor's talent for under $5 million? Good luck with that. There are only so many Kendrick Bournes out there, adn even if they find one, Agholor is still worth $5.

The games he missed let the other D clog the middle even more.

 

[archstanton543]

But, guys, the Pats have the #2 scoring defense in the league!

What a joke that stat is.

 

[archstanton543]

Need a LT. thought they had one the whole time with Trent Brown but I defer to the coaches. Wynn could be a great guard imo. Onwenu is a head scratcher, from one of the most promising rookie campaigns to a backup that plays 18 snaps? It will never be addressed to fans just like the Butler benching I guess. So I’ll just assume Michael kicked Nike and slept with Linda in the offseason.

You mean Trent Brown who managed to eff up a fake spike that he knew was coming?

 

[Patriot Missile]

You mean Trent Brown who managed to eff up a fake spike that he knew was coming?

Yeah. That guy.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Finding a receiver with Agholor's talent for under $5 million? Good luck with that. There are only so many Kendrick Bournes out there, adn even if they find one, Agholor is still worth $5.

The games he missed let the other D clog the middle even more.

Someone else mentioned it already though - it’s not so much a $5m receiver as it is a $5m cap charge receiver. They could sign a stud and only have a $5m cap charge for him in 2022 by completely backloading the contract.

Sort of what they did for Agholor himself but on a short deal. Could do a longer deal for a better talent.

I tend to agree with you that he’ll likely be back though, that I think the Pats will focus on defense instead and won’t want to invest long term I’m the type of upgrade that is required. And I certainly agree with you that he has value as evidenced by what happened when he wasn’t out there.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Last night our defense was without Mills, arguably our best DB of late. Also Dugger was very ineffective with an apparent broken hand; he'd have broken up that first Dawson TD otherwise. Also we lost Bentley early in the game, and Barmore was limited. Also going way back, losing Jonathan Jones was huge this year, both in coverage and as a spy on mobile QB's.

With all those guys healthy we'd have been more competitive for sure. That said, we need infusions on every level of the D, cause they let us down all year long. Tall task but rosters can change fast in this league so let's see what happens.

 

[50-yard-line]

Someone else mentioned it already though - it’s not so much a $5m receiver as it is a $5m cap charge receiver. They could sign a stud and only have a $5m cap charge for him in 2022 by completely backloading the contract.

Sort of what they did for Agholor himself but on a short deal. Could do a longer deal for a better talent.

I tend to agree with you that he’ll likely be back though, that I think the Pats will focus on defense instead and won’t want to invest long term I’m the type of upgrade that is required. And I certainly agree with you that he has value as evidenced by what happened when he wasn’t out there.

So do it - Agholor is a number 2 receiver and he's paid like a #2 receiver.

If you get a true #1, Agholor becomes a much better threat, as does Bourne, of course.

 

[long distance]

This is what I believe.

I believe the in-prime talent and quality depth on the defense is not where it needs to be. If this was the 01, 03, 04,14 or 16 defense we aren't having this discussion. That is THE root of the problem. More talent on D improves your chances for victory and success....and covers up for coaching misses.

I still have full confidence BB is a defensive mastermind but he's playing with a short hand.

I think it's important to look at the DC job here historically and who gets it and when.

BB draws a clear distinction between when a coach has earned the "DC" title and when he hasn't. He has said what makes a DC is his ability help him with the game plan, make in-game adjustments, call the game, marry personnel to the game plan, etc.

Let's look at the DC history.

No DC in 2000. It was BB and in 2001 got RAC to do the job.

In 2005 after RAC left, the official title went to Mangini. Bill felt he was ready. Fine.

Bill felt Pees was qualified to be DC and was from 06-09.

In 2009 after Pees left, a DC was not named and Fat Matt was ultimately given that title 2 years later in 2012

When Fat Matt left after the 2017 season, BB did not name Flo as DC. Had he stayed I believe Flo would have been named DC.

When Flo left after 2018, BB named no one DC and that has not changed. Schiano declined the job and we are going on 3 years w/o a DC and it was reported BB named himself DC.

What we can conclude is for whatever reason BB does not think his son has earned the title. Also maybe he thinks he has earned it but for other reasons he won't give it to him. I don't know.

I can't sit here and say BB Jr sucks b/c for all intents and purposes the DC is BB and BB Jr is calling plays I believe BB has told him to call and executing the game plan BB put together.

With that said, does that take extra load take away from BBs ability to oversee other aspects of the team and fix what is needed to be fixed (like those maddening pre-snap penalties, special teams snafus or dumb mistakes that have popped up at the worst possible moments?)

So, does getting someone senior been there-seen that kinda guy like RAC, Pees, Fat Matt to take the load off so BB has the bandwidth to fix other areas during prep week?

Only he can answer that. Tough situation for BB.

Thanks for the run down. Id say at least part of it is typical BBs dont let the outside know more than they have to.
Part of not giving titles outside was prob a bit of a “hiding“ coaches he didnt want to lose too early. I felt that was the case with Flores, maybe Mayo as well. With unprecedented success came also unprecedented “poaching“ of NE staff and this might be one way to slow the bleeding a bit..

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The thing is Agholor was streaking down the field and didn't have to stop to catch the ball. Here is the play. Agholor isn't breaking stride on the pass. That means the there wasn't too much air or it was a floater. It came down exactly when it was supposed to.



When a ball gets too much air or is a floater that allows the defender to adjust on the ball to make a play, it usually either has the receiver breaking stride to wait for the ball or the receiver is flat footed. But you are hitting the area the receiver is in stride on a deep pass, the problem isn't the ball velocity. If he threw that ball with more velocity, he would have overthrown Agholor.

It was a good throw. Hyde just made a sensational play.

 

[long distance]

According to Over the Cap, they still have $3.5 million even after factoring in Phillips' extension.

There were quite a lot of incentives met, bonuses.. Id go with Miguel on 2021 final books.