Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[Deus Irae]

I'm not talking about his post game standard speal. If you got him one on one, he would absolutely acknowledge he got outcoached. I believe him to be a man with integrity. He knows it. Most of us know it. The homers will continue to be blind to it.

In this case, I'd say that the issue was much more about things other than the coaching. We've seen this before in games (and even seasons), with both Brady/OC (offense) and BB/DC. There just comes a point where the lack of talent/playmaking/officiating cannot be overcome. Let's look to that, just with examples, and see how things might well have been different (and I realize that can be done by most teams in most games, but that's sort of the point).


Officiating:

The call-then-non-call on the late hit resulted in a 30 yard swing. Instead of a Patriots first down deep in Buffalo territory, with the team having a chance to cut the Bills lead down from seven, it becomes 2nd and 18 from the Patriots 32 and, essentially kills the drive.


Playmaking:

Jackson making the INT would have significantly improved the Patriots chances of winning. Judon's lack of impact gave Allen plenty of time, and a lot of comfort, behind the line.


Talent:

Jalen Mills and Myles Bryant in those roles. Really, nothing more needs be said here, I think, but I'll add that the rookie QB just wasn't good enough, particularly early on, and some of that may very well have been because of the WRs that were either on the shelf (Agholor) or limited while coming back from illness (Bourne).


I'm not saying that the coaching was anything near perfect. I'm just saying that Allen was able to take advantage of far too many things that weren't Patriots' coaching issues for me to put the blame on a lack of coaching adjustments that mostly would have been doomed to failure. But maybe you're seeing something I'm missing on this.

 

[Scotty]

Good film breakdown from Lazar on YT as to why the Pats defenders were out leveraged by the Bills.....why did our defence coaches not pick this up and adjust .....the example with Judon looks bad

 

[archstanton543]

Good film breakdown from Lazar on YT as to why the Pats defenders were out leveraged by the Bills.....why did our defence coaches not pick this up and adjust .....the example with Judon looks bad

Care to post a link to it?

 

[Scotty]

@archstanton543

I am not good at these things try this , apologies if I get this wrong

 

[Scotty]

I need to get my kids to show me how its done....lol

 

[amfootball]

The 1 time I said "Ill have to watch the play again" is why you thought I was "arguing Buffalo's dirty plays weren't dirty"? I guess I dont understand that, but ok.

And yes, agree to disagree on the ball punch. Where I grew up, you dont punch a ball in someones stomach when the play is over.

Judon is dirty. He was a Raven. There really isn't more to say.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Clear penalty.
Swings after Allen is on the ground.
Thank you for finding it.

You're a hoot. Judon started his swing when Allen's butt was at least a foot off the ground and basically pulled it back (plus he got all ball). Ref was right there and disagreed with you. Very obviously not a penalty.

 

[Ross12]

Clear penalty.
Swings after Allen is on the ground.
Thank you for finding it.

I don't understand what you're watching. I pulled up that video and slowed it down to 0.25x speed. Even at that speed, Judon is ****ing his arm back while Allen is still above the ground. Judon's arm comes forward as Allen touches the ground. Even if Judon somehow knew Allen's backside was touching the ground (impossible to tell from a view above the player), Judon makes contact roughly a half second after Allen touches the ground (Allen touches down at 0:20, Judon's punch makes contact at 0:20). You're not gonna flag a guy for being a half-second late on a ball punch. And even then - he didn't punch Allen in the slightest, he only hits the ball, so there's quite literally nothing wrong here.



On what planet is hitting your hand on the football a penalty?

 

[Jim Beankie]

@archstanton543

I am not good at these things try this , apologies if I get this wrong

Thanks for that. We were clearly outcoached. Hopefully next week will be better. Curious to see how much leeway receivers have (probably zero) with breaking off called routes right off the bat based on the start of the coverage (like the 1st play with Jakobi's guy getting inside leverage).

 

[DropKickFlutie]

To me, so far, Allen is Brett Favre, stylistically.

He's a better runner though. I was thinking a bit like Elway.

.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't understand what you're watching. I pulled up that video and slowed it down to 0.25x speed. Even at that speed, Judon is ****ing his arm back while Allen is still above the ground. Judon's arm comes forward as Allen touches the ground. Even if Judon somehow knew Allen's backside was touching the ground (impossible to tell from a view above the player), Judon makes contact roughly a half second after Allen touches the ground (Allen touches down at 0:20, Judon's punch makes contact at 0:20). You're not gonna flag a guy for being a half-second late on a ball punch. And even then - he didn't punch Allen in the slightest, he only hits the ball, so there's quite literally nothing wrong here.

View attachment 39290

On what planet is hitting your hand on the football a penalty?

Seemed to me Judon was late with the punch but hardly was of the personal foul variety.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Okay - found it (McCourty tackle made it very quick to find). That being said... Oh FFS - look at this video. Case closed.

(Edit as time link didn't work - fast forward to 0:12 - Q1 ~9:50 left)

lol, and Judon helps him up afterwards

GreenCow is being a little b**** haha, doesnt want his QB to get a booboo but doesnt mind Bills defenders committing 3 separate personal fouls against our rookie QB

Kindly go f*** off, GreenCow

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Clear penalty.
Swings after Allen is on the ground.
Thank you for finding it.

You're pathetic

Flush this troll down the toilet where he belongs

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Chad Pennington... Peyton after his injury.... Peterman... etc...


And, while you don't need to have Josh Allen's arm, having an adequate arm, that can make all the necessary throws, is essential in the NFL.

Chad Pennington already had a weak arm, but was still a very effective QB. It wasn't until he had his shoulder injury(ies?) where it really fell off to a below average level

Manning's arm was the result of nerve damage, and it was obvious he had no velocity whatsoever anymore, but he was still able to win a Superbowl throwing like a 10 year old

Mac may not have a strong arm, but he doesn't have a WEAK arm like Manning or Pennington did post injury. It's just an average NFL arm, but its still an NFL arm.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Why did Judon immediately offer his hand and help up Josh Allen right after the play? And how come Allen seemed totally fine with Judon and took his hand

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Chad Pennington already had a weak arm, but was still a very effective QB. It wasn't until he had his shoulder injury(ies?) where it really fell off to a below average level

Manning's arm was the result of nerve damage, and it was obvious he had no velocity whatsoever anymore, but he was still able to win a Superbowl throwing like a 10 year old

Mac may not have a strong arm, but he doesn't have a WEAK arm like Manning or Pennington did post injury. It's just has an average NFL arm, but its still an NFL arm.

When a rookie throws for 70% completion and is making over 7.5 yards per attempt, who cares that Mac doesn't have Field's arm ??? Mac can make all the throws when Wynn or the OLine aren't getting torched. One thing is to let him audible more to handle blitzes, whether it's to go quick to a WR or to bring in a RB or TE to block

 

[Ross12]

Seemed to me Judon was late with the punch but hardly was of the personal foul variety.

One other factor to consider is that Judon had run past Allen and so was spinning around 180 degrees while simultaneously attempting the punch, so in all likelihood he didn't have a good bearing of who was where or if so-and-so was on the ground or above the ground etc, he was just trying to make a play.

 

[RobertWeathers]

One other factor to consider is that Judon had run past Allen and so was spinning around 180 degrees while simultaneously attempting the punch, so in all likelihood he didn't have a good bearing of who was where or if so-and-so was on the ground or above the ground etc, he was just trying to make a play.

Yep! That's possible as well.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

One other factor to consider is that Judon had run past Allen and so was spinning around 180 degrees while simultaneously attempting the punch, so in all likelihood he didn't have a good bearing of who was where or if so-and-so was on the ground or above the ground etc, he was just trying to make a play.

Yes. Also, how often is an intentionally malicious action immediately followed up by offering your hand to help Josh Allen get up off the field....

 

[Rob0729]

Chad Pennington already had a weak arm, but was still a very effective QB. It wasn't until he had his shoulder injury(ies?) where it really fell off to a below average level

Manning's arm was the result of nerve damage, and it was obvious he had no velocity whatsoever anymore, but he was still able to win a Superbowl throwing like a 10 year old

Mac may not have a strong arm, but he doesn't have a WEAK arm like Manning or Pennington did post injury. It's just an average NFL arm, but its still an NFL arm.

Jones also doesn't have a lot of experience throwing in the elements. I think even a rookie QB with a really strong arm would still have take time adjusting to throwing in the elements if he spent his high school years in Florida and college years in the SEC. Really strong wind in places like Foxboro and Buffalo affects all passes by all QBs. Every QB has to adjust to it. QBs with stronger arms can adjust easier than ones with weaker ones, but it isn't like a Josh Allen is immune to wind because he has a strong arm.

But yes, people are making way too much of Jones' arm strength. He will enter his first year of true NFL conditioning this offseason. He will work on his strength and work with throwing coaches to improve his throws. I can almost guarantee you if he is dedicated to the offseason programing, his arm strength and velocity on the ball will improve markedly over the offseason and should continue to do so for the next few years at least.

That is what we saw with Brady in his early years. He didn't have the greatest arm strength when he came into the league and dedicated himself over the years to get one of the better arm strengths in the league.