Man in the Arena Discussion

[SHOWTIME15]

As soon as he won the SB and was named MVP. The media completely changed their narrative on his career. For folks who believed he was more a product of the NE system and Bills coaching, they changed their position dramatically (the Kellermans, Wrights, Sharpes, etc). Pretty much any article written on him post SB put him and his career in an entirely different light.

LOL, the vast majority of the Media didn't change their narrative. He was already the GOAT, a status which he earned as a NEP.

 

[amfootball]

Love ya man but I don't read, listen or watch to the same **** as you do nor will I give exactly 2 ****s if Tom wins SI Sportsman of the Year.

The media spins this BS just to create garbage discussion nor does it (in)validate anything Tom has achieved.

That's fine if you don't care. But that doesn't change the fact that the narrative of his career has changed. Winning does that.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He was universally considered to be the GOAT before he left for TB. That was the accepted narrative by every reasonable football fan with a brain.

He was universally recognized as the GOAT, but there was still a fairly large segment of fans who referred to him as the GOAT By Accomplishment. Or they’d say he’s objectively the greatest because of his resume and accomplishments, but then they’d project theoretical scenarios where Manning played with Belichick or Brady was drafted by the Lions. There was a divide between Greatest and Best. Kind of like Gonzalez/Gronkowski a few years ago. After the Tampa Bay win, there is no longer any argument about what GOAT quarterback means. Greatest and best are the same.

As an example, remember the Patriots/Packers game in 2018? The GOAT versus the BOAT. A joke, for sure, but many people bought into that line of thinking. That narrative is gone…not even ESPN and co. can attempt that any more without universal eye rolling.

 

[amfootball]

You are. Thinking Brady needs to win without Belichickbto further his legacy is detracting from what he did because Belichick was there.
No one has ever won more than 4. Brady didn’t need a 7th for any reason to support his legacy.

You are confusing legacy with career narrative. Legacy is about a players accomplishments. Career narrative is about the story of their career. Or in other words the journey of the player while achieving those accomplishments.

For brady, winning the 7th ring away from Bill changed his career narrative. It changed precisely because he won apart from Bill. If that upsets you because you somehow think it tarnishes Bills legacy then that's really your issue.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's fine if you don't care. But that doesn't change the fact that the narrative of his career has changed. Winning does that.

Sorry.

It hasn't in the least and never did.

You've let the ******** pollute your sensibilities.

He is the GOAT. A BS narrative from some asshat is irrelevant.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was universally recognized as the GOAT, but there was still a fairly large segment of fans who referred to him as the GOAT By Accomplishment. Or they’d say he’s objectively the greatest because of his resume and accomplishments, but then they’d project theoretical scenarios where Manning played with Belichick or Brady was drafted by the Lions. There was a divide between Greatest and Best. Kind of like Gonzalez/Gronkowski a few years ago. After the Tampa Bay win, there is no longer any argument about what GOAT quarterback means. Greatest and best are the same.

As an example, remember the Patriots/Packers game in 2018? The GOAT versus the BOAT. A joke, for sure, but many people bought into that line of thinking. That narrative is gone…not even ESPN and co. can attempt that any more without universal eye rolling.

Who ****ing cares?

I swear this whole "narrative" is perpetuated from the TB12 fandom's insecurities or bad acid trip. I can't decide.

It annoys the F out of me i'm arguing with fans who buy into ESPN/NFLN/Skip Bayless/Felger ********.

Jesus.

 

[Disco Volante]

According to posts I've seen on this forum:

-Tom Brady joining the 7-9 Bucs was equivalent to Kevin Durant joining the Golden State Warriors
-Rooting for the continued success of the greatest player in your franchise's history is not being a "real fan"
-Him winning a 7th Super Bowl ring, with a different team in his first year, did absolutely nothing to improve his legacy

I swear to god the **** I see posted about Brady on this forum is dumber than the stuff that rival fans said about him while he was in New England.

 

[amfootball]

Who ****ing cares?

I swear this whole "narrative" is perpetuated from the TB12 fandom's insecurities or bad acid trip. I can't decide.

It annoys the F out of me i'm arguing with fans who buy into ESPN/NFLN/Skip Bayless/Felger ********.

Jesus.

You can't be this narrow minded, can you? The narrative isn't just about the media. It's about everyone that is associated with the NFL and professional sports in general - from former players to current players to coaches to analysts to Hall of Fame players, etc.

This extreme sensitivity to say that Brady's legacy/career narrative changed from winning another super bowl apart from New England is beyond ridiculous. Of course it changed. How could it not?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You can't be this narrow minded, can you? The narrative isn't just about the media. It's about everyone that is associated with the NFL and professional sports in general - from former players to current players to coaches to analysts to Hall of Fame players, etc.

This extreme sensitivity to say that Brady's legacy/career narrative changed from winning another super bowl apart from New England is beyond ridiculous. Of course it changed. How could it not?

The problem with you is that you want universal approval from every NFL fan and media person that Brady is the GOAT. It's not going to happen. The vast majority thought he was the GOAT before he left for Tampa, but there will always be some naysayers. For some reason, you and IceBrady care about the remaining stragglers. These are the same people who will continue to say that Brady came from "cheating organization" and only has 1 legitimate ring. As RobertWeathers says, who cares what they think?

Why don't you show me proof of any single NFL media person who said Brady wasn't the GOAT before he left for Tampa and that his Tampa super bowl suddenly changed the narrative? I doubt you'll find anyone. Sure, there were those who said that it proves Brady wasn't system QB, but there were few people who thought he was a system QB to begin with.

 

[amfootball]

The problem with you is that you want universal approval from every NFL fan and media person that Brady is the GOAT. It's not going to happen. The vast majority thought he was the GOAT before he left for Tampa, but there will always be some naysayers. For some reason, you and IceBrady care about the remaining stragglers. These are people who will continue to reiterate that Brady came from "cheating organization" and only has 1 legitimate ring. As RobertWeathers says, who cares what they think?

Why don't you show me proof of any single NFL media person who says Brady wasn't the GOAT before he left for Tampa and that he did become the GOAT afterwards? I doubt you'll find anyone.

As usual, you have missed the entire point of the conversation.

 

[Ring 6]

You are confusing legacy with career narrative. Legacy is about a players accomplishments. Career narrative is about the story of their career. Or in other words the journey of the player while achieving those accomplishments.

For brady, winning the 7th ring away from Bill changed his career narrative. It changed precisely because he won apart from Bill. If that upsets you because you somehow think it tarnishes Bills legacy then that's really your issue.

You are making up definitions, a sure sign you know you are wrong.
There was no “narrative” change. Brady is the GOAT. Brady wins SBs, more than anyone else. Winning again didn’t change the narrative.
Nothing in your post upsets me, I am just pointing out that you are wrong, because you have an agenda you are selling out the integrity of your posting to.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

As usual, you have missed the entire point of the conversation.

And as usual, when you can't respond to my point you'll avoid answering it directly...

 

[RobertWeathers]

You can't be this narrow minded, can you?

I'm trying to be rational with you but if that's where you want to take this discussion......

Can you think for yourself?

The narrative isn't just about the media. It's about everyone that is associated with the NFL and professional sports in general - from former players to current players to coaches to analysts to Hall of Fame players, etc.

Who? Brady is already the GOAT. Who cares?

This extreme sensitivity to say that Brady's legacy/career narrative changed from winning another super bowl apart from New England is beyond ridiculous.

Exactly. It's extreme. Why do you care? Brady could have had a good year, gone 8-8 and nothing would have changed. He'd still be the GOAT.

Of course it changed. How could it not?

But you say it changed. So you bought into the extremism?

 

[amfootball]

I'm trying to be rational with you but if that's where you want to take this discussion......

Can you think for yourself?



Who? Brady is already the GOAT. Who cares?

Exactly. It's extreme. Why do you care?


But you say it changed. So you bought into the extremism?

Why do I care? I am on a Patriots fan form, the same as you. So yeah I care how my team and favorite players are portrayed within the game that I love.

I take great pleasure in knowing that the Patriots are the greatest football dynasty that has ever existed. The fact that that is acknowledged by those closest to the game means something.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why do I care? I am on a Patriots fan form, the same as you. So yeah I care how my team and favorite players are portrayed within the game that I love.

I take great pleasure in knowing that the Patriots are the greatest football dynasty that has ever existed. The fact that that is acknowledged by those closest to the game means something.

You aren't defending the Patriots.

 

[amfootball]

Hint- You aren't defending the Patriots.

What difference does it make? Whether it's Brady or the Patriots, you're saying you don't believe in the career narrative. That you prefer to think for yourself, right?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Tom Brady joining the 7-9 Bucs was equivalent to Kevin Durant joining the Golden State Warriors

This is the bizarre one. While the Bucs had talent from recent drafts, they haven’t made the playoffs since 2007. Then there’s the “Buc’s were a QB away” to minimize Brady. No, they were a Tom Brady away from Super Bowl contention. We’ve seen many QB’s have tons of talent around them throughout the years, but for some reason they can’t get it done. So what makes you think they’d do any different in Tampa?

 

[RobertWeathers]

What difference does it make? Whether it's Brady or the Patriots, you're saying you don't believe in the career narrative. That you prefer to think for yourself, right?

You are defending/justifying Brady's legacy because you think it was still compromised/unwritten/uncertain after he left NE.

I feel there was no need to defend it because it was already etched in stone. He was the GOAT in my eyes.

 

[amfootball]

You are defending Brady's legacy because you think it was still compromised/unwritten/uncertain after he left NE.

I feel there was no need to defend it because it was already etched in stone.

Where did I say that? I am not defending his legacy at all. I agreed with you when you said he was the goat before he joined Tampa and won the super bowl.

I specifically said his career narrative changed which it has. He added to his career story when he left New England and won in Tampa. I really don't see how that can be denied? This doesn't imply that his career in New England was unfinished or compromised. It just means he added to his career narrative. He added another brick to his goat status.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Where did I say that? I am not defending his legacy at all. I agreed with you when you said he was the goat before he joined Tampa and won the super bowl.

I specifically said his career narrative changed which it has. He added to his career story when he left New England and won in Tampa. I really don't see how that can be denied? This doesn't imply that his career in New England was unfinished or compromised. It just means he added to his career narrative. He added another brick to his goat status.

What narrative and why does it matter?

He was already the GOAT.

He won somewhere else.

Great.