Man in the Arena Discussion

[SHOWTIME15]

I hear you on all of this but to the bolded - it is a tragedy IMO because of what the two of them were achieving together. It could have, should have continued. We will never ever see anything like it and knowing Brady still had championship years left and Bill still has IT as a coach, makes it all the more painful. But alas, you are right, we have to move on and root them both on. We have no other choice.

That's on Brady. He wanted to leave and abandoned the team when we didn't have the weapons to his liking. Personally, I'm not going to cry about Brady/Bill not getting ring #7 together. We had to look the future since Brady hadn't been clear (and hadn't expressed to Bill) on when he's retiring and left the team in a holding pattern.

 

[Steve102]

Montana

Gronk yes but i'm not aware of others. That's fine.

Sport absolutely. Maybe a little in the industry. Society? Not really.

Ali might be #1 in impact in all 3 categories.

I don't think it's a debate, really. Ali was on a level more like the Beatles at the height of beatlemania. I think you could argue that he was bigger worldwide than the Beatles. Both changed the world. Brady isn't even in that discussion when it comes to world changing personas.

 

[upstater1]

People downplay how painful 06 was. Up 21-3 in AFCC with a free ring from Rex Grossman just waiting for the winner of that game...

What about Troy Brown's OPI? What about Reche Caldwell's mugging in the end zone?

Sorry--had to do it.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

People downplay how painful 06 was. Up 21-3 in AFCC with a free ring from Rex Grossman just waiting for the winner of that game...

I was thinking if this was the start of my animosity towards the oc but then I remembered 2005 had the same crap. 2005 Brady got so beat up all the time in crappy spread shotgun, this was the year Brady found Guerrero and started the pliability stuff because of the physical beating he was taking from all the unprotected spread-formation passing.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

That's on Brady. He wanted to leave and abandoned the team when we didn't have the weapons to his liking. Personally, I'm not going to cry about Brady/Bill not getting ring #7 together. We had to look the future since Brady hadn't been clear (and hadn't expressed to Bill) on when he's retiring and left the team in a holding pattern.

Stop it.

Tom Brady AND the Patriots made a business decision.

The Patriots did not want to commit to a 43-year-old for more than one year.
TB12 wanted a commitment and guarantees that they would improve the team.

There was no money in 2020, so the only logical conclusion for BOTH parties was to move on.

TB12 won another SB.
Patriots rebuilt in less than 18 months, found their new QB and are now contenders again.

At the end of the day, everybody won (well, except us in 2020, we had to watch Cam Newton pretend to be a QB haha). No need for stupid narratives.

 

[Brotherblues]

What about Troy Brown's OPI? What about Reche Caldwell's mugging in the end zone?

Sorry--had to do it.

SHADDAP STAHP

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Stop it.

Tom Brady AND the Patriots made a business decision.

The Patriots did not want to commit to a 43-year-old for more than one year.
TB12 wanted a commitment and guarantees that they would improve the team.

There was no money in 2020, so the only logical conclusion for BOTH parties was to move on.

TB12 won another SB.
Patriots rebuilt in less than 18 months, found their new QB and are now contenders again.

At the end of the day, everybody won (well, except us in 2020, we had to watch Cam Newton pretend to be a QB haha). No need for stupid narratives.

Brady was the one who drove to Kraft's house to tell him he was leaving, to the surprise of Kraft. If both sides knew he was going to leave, apparently someone didn't tell the owner.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

Brady was the one who drove to Kraft's house to tell him he was leaving, to the surprise of Kraft. If both sides knew he was going to leave, apparently someone didn't tell the owner.

The Pats made their position pretty clear when they refused to give him more than one year.

Brady might have made the decision, but the Pats clearly put their cards on the table.

I mean, tell yourself the stories you want to tell yourself. At the end of the day, to me, all that matters are the actions each party took. Pats did not want to commit, Brady decided to leave. Both made a business decision and, at the end of the day, it seems like it was the right one for both. In business, there does not need to be a "loser" in a deal, both parties can win.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The Pats made their position pretty clear when they refused to give him more than one year.

Brady might have made the decision, but the Pats clearly put their cards on the table.

I mean, tell yourself the stories you want to tell yourself. At the end of the day, to me, all that matters are the actions each party took. Pats did not want to commit, Brady decided to leave. Both made a business decision and, at the end of the day, it seems like it was the right one for both. In business, there does not need to be a "loser" in a deal, both parties can win.

The Pats offered Brady what they've been offering Brady for each of the last several years. Brady didn't take it. That's on Brady. There's nothing different that the Pats did this time around. He was showing his moodiness for whatever reason in 2019 (and even dating back to 2017). It was clear he didn't want to be here anymore. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

What bs is that. Brady could retire at the end of this year, and would have spent 20 years with pats and 2 years with TB, and in your eyes a documentary about him is a "Tampa Bay player TV series". Like saying any documentary on Montana is just a "Kansas City Chief player TV series".

No BS at all. It is how I see it. You do your thing I’ll do mine.

 

[sean10mm]

The Pats offered Brady what they've been offering Brady for each of the last several years. Brady didn't take it. That's on Brady. There's nothing different that the Pats did this time around. He was showing his moodiness for whatever reason in 2019 (and even dating back to 2017). It was clear he didn't want to be here anymore. There's nothing wrong with that.

Why was it not on the Patriots to make a competitive offer if they supposedly wanted him so much?

If I offer $20,000 for a new Ferrari, nobody says they were pricks for not taking it, I'm the dumbass for thinking I could get a new Ferrari for $20,000. If you lowball people they generally tell you to piss off, that's how markets work, be it for goods or labor.

(The real problem was that the Patriots couldn't make Brady a market value offer AND reload the offense AND keep under the 2020 salary cap simultaneously, but I'm guessing that nuance is wasted here.)

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

The Pats offered Brady what they've been offering Brady for each of the last several years. Brady didn't take it. That's on Brady. There's nothing different that the Pats did this time around. He was showing his moodiness for whatever reason in 2019 (and even dating back to 2017). It was clear he didn't want to be here anymore. There's nothing wrong with that.

Not offering him more years is a business decision. They knew the risk involved. If they were indeed surprised, they are stupid... and we know they are not. Hence, it was a business decision on both part. You do not offer something you very well know might not be accepted if you are not ready to move on.

 

[TheRainMaker]

LeBron is either 1A or 1B with Jordan.

Not sure what your ranking is with LeBron is.

Off topic, but he's a terrible GM. The roster he put together with the Lakers this is has been a disaster.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

Not sure what your ranking is with LeBron is.

Off topic, but he's a terrible GM. The roster he put together with the Lakers this is has been a disaster.

Well, in 2013, it would have been a formidable team

 

[upstater1]

Not sure what your ranking is with LeBron is.

Off topic, but he's a terrible GM. The roster he put together with the Lakers this is has been a disaster.

Not sure that people realize this is LeBron's 19th year. I'm not talking about the LeBron of today.

Comparing him to the greats of the past should be done by looking at his peak years. 19 years is a lot.

 

[upstater1]

Why was it not on the Patriots to make a competitive offer if they supposedly wanted him so much?

If I offer $20,000 for a new Ferrari, nobody says they were pricks for not taking it, I'm the dumbass for thinking I could get a new Ferrari for $20,000. If you lowball people they generally tell you to piss off, that's how markets work, be it for goods or labor.

(The real problem was that the Patriots couldn't make Brady a market value offer AND reload the offense AND keep under the 2020 salary cap simultaneously, but I'm guessing that nuance is wasted here.)

It wasn't even a matter of market value. It was years. Brady wanted 2

 

[Pats1971]

It wasn't even a matter of market value. It was years. Brady wanted 2

Yeah but they also offered him like 12 or 13 mil a year which is a flat out slap to the face.

 

[Pats1971]

The Pats offered Brady what they've been offering Brady for each of the last several years. Brady didn't take it. That's on Brady. There's nothing different that the Pats did this time around. He was showing his moodiness for whatever reason in 2019 (and even dating back to 2017). It was clear he didn't want to be here anymore. There's nothing wrong with that.

False. We all heard the offer, and no it was not even average Qb market value. Now, they probably didnt have a choice becaue they messed up the cap to that point, but it was a low ball offer that was pretty much a slap to the face.

 

[Pats1971]

The Pats made their position pretty clear when they refused to give him more than one year.

Brady might have made the decision, but the Pats clearly put their cards on the table.

I mean, tell yourself the stories you want to tell yourself. At the end of the day, to me, all that matters are the actions each party took. Pats did not want to commit, Brady decided to leave. Both made a business decision and, at the end of the day, it seems like it was the right one for both. In business, there does not need to be a "loser" in a deal, both parties can win.

Well...I mean one has won a superbowl and we will see what the other does. I have no issue with the Pats wanting to basically start over, but lets not call it even just yet.

 

[Pats1971]

That's on Brady. He wanted to leave and abandoned the team when we didn't have the weapons to his liking. Personally, I'm not going to cry about Brady/Bill not getting ring #7 together. We had to look the future since Brady hadn't been clear (and hadn't expressed to Bill) on when he's retiring and left the team in a holding pattern.

abandon? God you are an idiot. Brady didnt express to Bill? Yeah Brady has expressed how long he wants to play for the last 10 years. Brady wanted a 2 year deal commitment, the pats didnt or couldnt offer him much money and they didnt want to do the years, so brady left, so this notion its on Brady is about as stupid as your other Brady troll posts.