Former Patriots Tackle Trent Brown visits practice

[Patsgofor4]

 

[borisman]

I know it won't happen and I understand why it won't happen but it would make for a good line with Brown at LT and Wynn at LG.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hoping a massive Thanksgiving feast will enable Brown to recover his strength lost to a vicious calf pull so he can play LT & LG simultaneously.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Is he sore yet?

 

[Froob]

I know it won't happen and I understand why it won't happen but it would make for a good line with Brown at LT and Wynn at LG.

Karras has been very good at LG. Are we sure Wynn would be better?

 

[borisman]

Karras has been very good at LG. Are we sure Wynn would be better?

I do, actually. He played quite a few games there at UGA and was outstanding. And we already know Brown can play LT and Onwenu at RT. This conversation has been beat to a dead horse a while back so I don't want to contribute further. It's why I said "I know it won't happen and I understand why it won't happen".
I'm just tired of seeing Mac getting smashed at least once every game because of Wynn. And some of it may have to do with coaching. Wynn may have lost his way a bit. I'm not saying he's terrible or anything but he has his lapses.

 

[Froob]

I do, actually. He played quite a few games there at UGA and was outstanding. And we already know Brown can play LT and Onwenu at RT. This conversation has been beat to a dead horse a while back so I don't want to contribute further. It's why I said "I know it won't happen and I understand why it won't happen".
I'm just tired of seeing Mac getting smashed at least once every game because of Wynn. And some of it may have to do with coaching. Wynn may have lost his way a bit. I'm not saying he's terrible or anything but he has his lapses.

I'm curious as to why the Patriots haven't entertained Wynn yet at guard considering that's where he played there in college.

 

[jah]

I'm curious as to why the Patriots haven't entertained Wynn yet at guard considering that's where he played there in college.

Until this year, there was no real need to consider it, because he was on the path to becoming a high quality starting LT. Things have obviously changed this year with the way most people, myself included, evaluate Wynn.

I still don't see much point in shaking up our OL just a few weeks after we finally figured out an arrangement that seems to work. Part of that means keeping Karras on the field.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Until this year, there was no real need to consider it, because he was on the path to becoming a high quality starting LT. Things have obviously changed this year with the way most people, myself included, evaluate Wynn.

I still don't see much point in shaking up our OL just a few weeks after we finally figured out an arrangement that seems to work. Part of that means keeping Karras on the field.

So keep Trent off the field then ? I think there are multiple not-terrible combinations on the left side but all involve keeping Onwenu at RT.

 

[jah]

So keep Trent off the field then ? I think there are multiple not-terrible combinations on the left side but all involve keeping Onwenu at RT.

I've thought about that idea and it might be one of the ways you could go. Like I said, something seems to be working right now so I'm not sure how I feel about change in general, which would include putting Brown back in the lineup.

 

[50-yard-line]

I do, actually. He played quite a few games there at UGA and was outstanding. And we already know Brown can play LT and Onwenu at RT. This conversation has been beat to a dead horse a while back so I don't want to contribute further. It's why I said "I know it won't happen and I understand why it won't happen".
I'm just tired of seeing Mac getting smashed at least once every game because of Wynn. And some of it may have to do with coaching. Wynn may have lost his way a bit. I'm not saying he's terrible or anything but he has his lapses.

Not happy with Wynn's play, either, but last week, the smash on Mac (and Harris) was on Mason - or really, on play design that had Mason trying to get across the line in time to intercept the speedy Burns.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Not happy with Wynn's play, either, but last week, the smash on Mac (and Harris) was on Mason - or really, on play design that had Mason trying to get across the line in time to intercept the speedy Burns.

It was the exact same crappy-designed play on both the Mac fumble and Harris injury. Should have noticed in practice this play was a dud and never made it into the play sheet.

.

 

[captain stone]

Karras has been very good at LG. Are we sure Wynn would be better?

Eventually, yes...the dude's a naturally-built LG.

Karras' real value to me is as the top C/G backup, so that the useless Thanksdad Ferentz never, ever is used in that role ever, Ever again.

 

[TomPatriot]

Eventually, yes...the dude's a naturally-built LG.

I not sure he’s quick and agile enough, though. The three interior positions are probably tougher than OT.

 

[PScottman]

It'd be a very appropriate week to swap Wynn out for big old Mr. Brown.

So is it just assumed that:

1. Brown is fully recovered.
2. Brown is fully integrated.
3. Brown has full knowledge of the calls.
4. Brown has full knowledge of the plays.
5. Brown has developed chemistry with the rest of the line mates.
6. Brown has full stamina.
7. Brown has full burst to get from stance to engagement.

There's like ten more. Players are not an algorithm based on mathematical formulas "Brown is an 87 on Madden while Wynn is just an 81!" where it's an automatic upgrade just because. They do not just "plug in" at the same level they played at in a previous stint with the team, more so at more team-based positions like OL where the whole unit has to be in synch to really perform (a WR can come in for certain plays and "just run this route" so much easier transition). Moreover, weren't people, even in this very thread title, calling for Brown's head because he is viewed as "milking" his injury? Is that the type of player that should just replace another automatically? I don't understand the thought process.

Do we remember how bad the line was early in the year - if the corollary is true that only statistics and potential determine outcome why did they need reps to round into a form where the QB was getting hit 12-15 times a game versus the now 5-8 times per game? Why has the running game improved? It was much more complicated than just statistical comparison. It wasn't just Onwenu moving either because Ferentz is a downgrade in most ways except that he is well versed in the system. That was part of the OL solidification, but getting the QB and OL to gel was just as, if not more, significant to their improvement as a unit.

Now over the longer term of 2-3 games, integrating Brown back into the mix for Wynn might just be the right move, but isn't the smart methodology to plug him a little more slowly to ensure he is healthy, he is an upgrade, etc?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So is it just assumed that:

1. Brown is fully recovered.
2. Brown is fully integrated.
3. Brown has full knowledge of the calls.
4. Brown has full knowledge of the plays.
5. Brown has developed chemistry with the rest of the line mates.
6. Brown has full stamina.
7. Brown has full burst to get from stance to engagement.

There's like ten more. Players are not an algorithm based on mathematical formulas "Brown is an 87 on Madden while Wynn is just an 81!" where it's an automatic upgrade just because. They do not just "plug in" at the same level they played at in a previous stint with the team, more so at more team-based positions like OL where the whole unit has to be in synch to really perform (a WR can come in for certain plays and "just run this route" so much easier transition). Moreover, weren't people, even in this very thread title, calling for Brown's head because he is viewed as "milking" his injury? Is that the type of player that should just replace another automatically? I don't understand the thought process.

Do we remember how bad the line was early in the year - if the corollary is true that only statistics and potential determine outcome why did they need reps to round into a form where the QB was getting hit 12-15 times a game versus the now 5-8 times per game? Why has the running game improved? It was much more complicated than just statistical comparison. It wasn't just Onwenu moving either because Ferentz is a downgrade in most ways except that he is well versed in the system. That was part of the OL solidification, but getting the QB and OL to gel was just as, if not more, significant to their improvement as a unit.

Now over the longer term of 2-3 games, integrating Brown back into the mix for Wynn might just be the right move, but isn't the smart methodology to plug him a little more slowly to ensure he is healthy, he is an upgrade, etc?

There's a fundamentally wrong assumption above, that it was just improved via more chemistry and reps. No. It literally got better because they stopped playing Durant/Herron at RT, moved Onwenu to RT, and played Karras at LG. The OLine is better because of Onwenu at RT and Karras at LG, not some vague "more reps" reason. The OLine sucked with Wynn-Onwenu on the left side and Durant/Herron at RT.

.

 

[stinkypete]

All we know at this point is that every game we play with a combination of Durant/Herron at RT takes a year off of Mac's life.

What we don't know yet is how the originally planned line of Wynn/Owenu/Andrews/Mason/Brown performs. That line played together for one series.

I agree with the thought that we should break in the new combination slowly, if only for the sake of evaluation. The current group has played well for three games against three pretty good defensive fronts (as laughable as the Jets team is, their D line is solid). Any move to incorporate Brown back into the line disrupts two positions, which increases the potential that the unit as a whole collapses. I'd rather see Brown used primarily as a swing tackle for a few weeks, while keeping the interior intact, while saving any double switches (ie. Brown at RT and Owenu at LG, or Brown at LR and Wynn at LG) for situational packages or in garbage time. If a better line emerges, great, but I don't want to tinker too much with something that is working.

 

[n1997y]

I’m wondering if Brown could be ready to go against Garrett, at least part of the time. They had three weeks to activate him after he came off PUP and started practicing with the team, and they only took three days to do it.

 

[captain stone]

So is it just assumed that:

1. Brown is fully recovered.
2. Brown is fully integrated.
3. Brown has full knowledge of the calls.
4. Brown has full knowledge of the plays.
5. Brown has developed chemistry with the rest of the line mates.
6. Brown has full stamina.
7. Brown has full burst to get from stance to engagement.

There's like ten more. Players are not an algorithm based on mathematical formulas "Brown is an 87 on Madden while Wynn is just an 81!" where it's an automatic upgrade just because. They do not just "plug in" at the same level they played at in a previous stint with the team, more so at more team-based positions like OL where the whole unit has to be in synch to really perform (a WR can come in for certain plays and "just run this route" so much easier transition). Moreover, weren't people, even in this very thread title, calling for Brown's head because he is viewed as "milking" his injury? Is that the type of player that should just replace another automatically? I don't understand the thought process.

Do we remember how bad the line was early in the year - if the corollary is true that only statistics and potential determine outcome why did they need reps to round into a form where the QB was getting hit 12-15 times a game versus the now 5-8 times per game? Why has the running game improved? It was much more complicated than just statistical comparison. It wasn't just Onwenu moving either because Ferentz is a downgrade in most ways except that he is well versed in the system. That was part of the OL solidification, but getting the QB and OL to gel was just as, if not more, significant to their improvement as a unit.

Now over the longer term of 2-3 games, integrating Brown back into the mix for Wynn might just be the right move, but isn't the smart methodology to plug him a little more slowly to ensure he is healthy, he is an upgrade, etc?

Yeah today might not be a great day to introduce a new starting Left side... Best for now to use Brown as our Jumbo package lineman and see how it goes... Vs the Fail-cons on Thursday is a better time to begin the Brown-Wynn LT-LG combo, so that it's ready for the Titties game 10 days later.

 

[PScottman]

So is it just assumed that:

1. Brown is fully recovered.
2. Brown is fully integrated.
3. Brown has full knowledge of the calls.
4. Brown has full knowledge of the plays.
5. Brown has developed chemistry with the rest of the line mates.
6. Brown has full stamina.
7. Brown has full burst to get from stance to engagement.

There's like ten more. Players are not an algorithm based on mathematical formulas "Brown is an 87 on Madden while Wynn is just an 81!" where it's an automatic upgrade just because. They do not just "plug in" at the same level they played at in a previous stint with the team, more so at more team-based positions like OL where the whole unit has to be in synch to really perform (a WR can come in for certain plays and "just run this route" so much easier transition). Moreover, weren't people, even in this very thread title, calling for Brown's head because he is viewed as "milking" his injury? Is that the type of player that should just replace another automatically? I don't understand the thought process.

Do we remember how bad the line was early in the year - if the corollary is true that only statistics and potential determine outcome why did they need reps to round into a form where the QB was getting hit 12-15 times a game versus the now 5-8 times per game? Why has the running game improved? It was much more complicated than just statistical comparison. It wasn't just Onwenu moving either because Ferentz is a downgrade in most ways except that he is well versed in the system. That was part of the OL solidification, but getting the QB and OL to gel was just as, if not more, significant to their improvement as a unit.

Now over the longer term of 2-3 games, integrating Brown back into the mix for Wynn might just be the right move, but isn't the smart methodology to plug him a little more slowly to ensure he is healthy, he is an upgrade, etc?

So half right, half wrong - Trent Brown went the whole game at RT. Didn't think he'd go from zero to 60, but was correct in pooh-poohing he'd take over for Wynn.