Wickersham book discussion

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You are free to ignore me, but for whatever reason, you keep responding. You are as nonsensical as vencol or ice ice brady who call me a troll and then respond to me more than anyone on this board.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

it's called the ignore button

 

[Pats1971]

This is 100% spot on. But the Bradyites simply blame Bill for everything. Every loss that occurred...it's Bill's fault! Every win...it was all Tommy! Notice how quiet they are this week after Brady only mustered 1 TD drive the entire game. 6 super bowls require the GOAT QB and GOAT HC.

Brady won didnt he? Yeah I think winning still matters. It used to for pats fans, but some have fallen to moral victories anymore. Brady is second in td's this year and first in yards. A sloppy game in the rain and he won....this is not fantasy football this is reality football. Since Brady left the pats they have been averaging 18 ppg....that is not good enough to win in this league, so maybe Belichick needed that.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Brady won didnt he? Yeah I think winning still matters. It used to for pats fans, but some have fallen to moral victories anymore. Brady is second in td's this year and first in yards. A sloppy game in the rain and he won....this is not fantasy football this is reality football. Since Brady left the pats they have been averaging 18 ppg....that is not good enough to win in this league, so maybe Belichick needed that.

For the record since Oct'19 even in Brady's last 9 games as a Patriot they were only averaging 17 points per game. So basically since AB was cut and Brady was checked out, our fraud OC has been running one of the worst scoring offenses in the league, consistent with when he flew St Louis and Denver straight into the ground.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady won didnt he? Yeah I think winning still matters. It used to for pats fans, but some have fallen to moral victories anymore. Brady is second in td's this year and first in yards. A sloppy game in the rain and he won....this is not fantasy football this is reality football. Since Brady left the pats they have been averaging 18 ppg....that is not good enough to win in this league, so maybe Belichick needed that.

If you are expecting the Pats to win the Super Bowl this year and are upset by this one loss, then you need to see the bigger picture. With a rookie QB, moral victories matter since bad bounces happen all the time in this sport. Would you be jumping for joy if Folk hit that field goal? Is that the difference between joy and misery - one field goal in a regular-season game that is non-conference?

BTW, Brady is tied for 3rd in TDs and is 2nd in yards.

 

[Ring 6]

For the record since Oct'19 even in Brady's last 9 games as a Patriot they were only averaging 17 points per game. So basically since AB was cut and Brady was checked out, our fraud OC has been running one of the worst scoring offenses in the league, consistent with when he flew St Louis and Denver straight into the ground.

I’m curious why you make up stats, get shown they are wrong, then keep using them?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I’m curious why you make up stats, get shown they are wrong, then keep using them?

You have the least credibility of anyone here, and it's further exacerbated by how tone deaf you are arguing 1 against 10 almost everyday here.

Don't be lazy and just pull up the game logs from 2019. The offense was pathetic from the moment AB was cut through end of year, averaging about 17 points per game. This is not debatable.

 

[Ring 6]

You have the least credibility of anyone here, and it's further exacerbated by how tone deaf you are arguing 1 against 10 almost everyday here.

Don't be lazy and just pull up the game logs from 2019. The offense was pathetic from the moment AB was cut through end of year, averaging about 17 points per game. This is not debatable.

I did the first time you said that and showed you that you were wrong. Yeah you keep repeating it.
Do you struggle with math?

 

[Ring 6]

You have the least credibility of anyone here, and it's further exacerbated by how tone deaf you are arguing 1 against 10 almost everyday here.

Don't be lazy and just pull up the game logs from 2019. The offense was pathetic from the moment AB was cut through end of year, averaging about 17 points per game. This is not debatable.

Brown cut after week 2. Patriots score 344 points on 14 games without him.
344/14 = 24. 344/14 does not equal
17.
It sure isn’t debatable, you are wrong, 100% wrong.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is 100% spot on. But the Bradyites simply blame Bill for everything. Every loss that occurred...it's Bill's fault! Every win...it was all Tommy! Notice how quiet they are this week after Brady only mustered 1 TD drive the entire game. 6 super bowls require the GOAT QB and GOAT HC.

Brady didn’t play well…he was tight and immediately lost trust in his secondary options. He didn’t play terribly, and there were a handful of drops in the red zone, but with the weapons TB has, the bottom line was well under what you’d hope for in a game like that.

He was lucky the Bucs pulled it off. As much as people think Folk’s kick was a desperate try, that was a damn impressive field goal by Succop with that pressure, on the road, in the rain from 48 yards. One kicker nailed it; the other kicker missed by six inches. That’s why you can’t decide a legacy on one game, especially one where Bill‘s strategy bested Tom’s quarterbacking. It would be great to see them matchup like five times, even though that won’t actually happen. Maybe the NFL will consider pitting them next year for game 17. I’d love to see it again.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady didn’t play well…he was tight and immediately lost trust in his secondary options. He didn’t play terribly, and there were a handful of drops in the red zone, but with the weapons TB has, the bottom line was well under what you’d hope for in a game like that.

He was lucky the Bucs pulled it off. As much as people think Folk’s kick was a desperate try, that was a damn impressive field goal by Succop with that pressure, on the road, in the rain from 48 yards. One kicker nailed it; the other kicker missed by six inches. That’s why you can’t decide a legacy on one game, especially one where Bill‘s strategy bested Tom’s quarterbacking. It would be great to see them matchup like five times, even though that won’t actually happen. Maybe the NFL will consider pitting them next year for game 17. I’d love to see it again.

In the end, Patriots fans got the best of both worlds. Brady got the W and the yards record in his old stadium, Belichick called an outstanding game and limited Brady offensively. It would be the same as if Brady lit up the Patriots for 40 points in a losing effort.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

In the end, Patriots fans got the best of both worlds. Brady got the W and the yards record in his old stadium, Belichick called an outstanding game and limited Brady offensively. It would be the same as if Brady lit up the Patriots for 40 points in a losing effort.

Agree.

There’s no doubt if Brady had lost, you’d have moron pundits forever citing that Brady could “never beat” the Patriots while fluffing Manning, Brees, etc. A disingenuous argument but that’s what they do. So, at least that fuel to the fire isn’t an option.

Belichick had a brilliant strategy and displayed again why he’s great. As much as Brady would never acknowledge it, he absolutely looked confused and a bit rattled out there.

I thought the key to the game was whether the Patriots would make some big plays on offense because dink and dunking is the last thing you want to do against TB’s front 7, with those playmaking linebackers and the impossible task of sustaining long drives against that run D and pass rush. And with that vulnerable secondary, and an aggressive blitz, it would lead to some huge opportunities.

In the end, the Patriots didn’t make enough chunk plays, but it was still virtually a coin flip down the stretch. I don’t know if Mac will be able to be a strong downfield passer, but if he does develop there, he could actually be an elite QB. I mean, a force. He is years and years ahead of where he should be in many ways. That’s a great feeling knowing a guy has all the right mental and leadership skills. I mean, I’ve argued for years that field vision, decision making, etc. is also an innate skill just like arm talent. However, I have more confidence a guy can develop physically than I do mentally. He has the right height and body frame. So, I’ll take it.

Tom and Bill reconciling was good for the fans. Now we can feel less like we need to pick a side.

 

[Pape]

It would be great to see them matchup like five times, even though that won’t actually happen. Maybe the NFL will consider pitting them next year for game 17. I’d love to see it again.

2023 is a possibility, but only if the two teams finish in the same position

 

[sb1]

More content about the Pats 2007 season:

Book excerpt: The passion, pressure, profanity and near-perfection of the 2007 Patriots

On Oct. 12, ESPN senior writer Seth Wickersham's book, "It's Better To Be Feared," will be published. This condensed excerpt is from the chapters documenting the New England Patriots' historic 2007 season.

www.espn.com

 

[sb1]

In 1996, before Modell fired him, Belichick had planned to draft Ray Lewis, a star at the University of Miami, and later, as an assistant in New England under Bill Parcells, wanted to draft him, but the Ravens picked him first.

Huh.

 

[sb1]

Wow... so Bill nearly loses the locker room in 2007 because he was pushing the team as hard as he did without any sort of encouragement

"This performance is not going to be good enough," he told the team. Several players were starting to lose patience. The endless carping, the unrelenting pressure, the steadfast refusal to be proud of the team or to acknowledge how remarkable its accomplishments were -- it was all getting old. "We thought that was bull---," Hobbs recalled. "We were angry at Bill. We were trying to prove to him, this s--- is hard."

.....
The next afternoon, New England was up 42-7 in the fourth quarter. But Belichick gave some of the starters a rare rest -- and the wheels began to come off. After backup quarterback Matt Cassel threw a pick six, cutting the Patriots' lead to 42-21 with 10:30 left, Belichick inserted the entire first team, including Brady. He would rather risk injury to his stars than allow anyone on the team to think that a lack of focus was acceptable. In the locker room after the 49-28 win, Belichick was salty -- and the players were starting to lose patience.

"Hey, Bill," Hobbs said, "you said we'd come out and get our ass beat. You saw what happened." He lobbied for an extra day off.

"Yeah, don't press your luck, Hobbs," Belichick replied.

 

[sb1]

Belichick had once said of Brady, "We're not talking about John Elway here."

WTF Bill

 

[sb1]

With 39 seconds left and the ball at the 14-yard line, the Patriots called one of the worst plays of Bill Belichick's career: a blitz, sending Seau and Harrison and leaving the secondary in zero coverage -- man-to-man across the board with no safety help. It isolated 5-foot-9 Ellis Hobbs on 6-foot-5 Plaxico Burress, a fatal mismatch, even though the height difference didn't matter in the end. Harrison recognized the problem and tried to call off the blitz. "What are we doing?" he yelled to Seau before pleading with him to audible to a better pass defense. "Check two! Cover two!" Seau waved him off. Harrison later said it was the "biggest regret" of his career that he allowed Seau to overrule him.


Wow

 

[sb1]

Whenever a player hinted at his or the Patriots' confidence to the media, Belichick would humiliate him before the team. "We don't need any more State of the Unions. Shut the f--- up. How about that? Just shut the f--- up." On some days, he left players more confused than angry. The offense kept fumbling in practice, so Belichick ordered all of the footballs soaked in water. "Wet that s--- up," Belichick said.

Belichick dismissed anything positive an outsider might say about the team -- or for that matter, even an insider. In early November, Stallworth was making an appearance at a local event, when a reporter from the Boston Herald showed up. The reporter was working on a glowing story on Randy Moss's unprecedented year. Stallworth had been avoiding the reporter for days, worried that if he spoke publicly about anything other than the next game, Belichick would notice -- and would let him have it in front of the entire team. The reporter told Stallworth that every other Patriots receiver had cooperated, so Stallworth decided to give a few kind quotes about Moss.

The day the story ran, Belichick arrived at the team meeting holding it. He was in a foul mood. "What was one of the first things I told you f---ing a--holes at the first meeting? Speak for yourself. There's one group that doesn't understand what the f--- that means -- the receivers."

There was nowhere for the wideouts to hide. What had been said couldn't be unsaid. They had no choice but to take what was coming. Belichick proceeded to rip each receiver who was quoted in the story by name, as if checking a list. Welker. Stallworth. Jabar Gaffney. When Belichick reached Chad Jackson, a disappointing second-round draft pick from 2006, he said, "Chad Jackson, you haven't done s--- all year. You're not talking to the media the rest of the year." After a few minutes, Belichick added, "I told you ass----- to speak for yourself."

-------------------------
Really sounds like Bill was walking a fine line in the locker room and he wasn't far off from losing his players. It really is amazing BB could keep this exact same attitude for so many years and players still buy in to his way.

 

[sb1]

And Colvin confirmed it... they were "running up the score" because of Spygate and the talk that Brady knew what play was coming on defense.