BB on whether he thinks he would have the same success without Brady: "Of course not"

[gobesmug]

Nobody knows if that team would have played better or not, Wiggins thinks they would have.

Either way Bill drafted Tom, he carried 4 QB’s on the roster (never happens), he played Tom when Drew got hurt, he kept Drew pinned to the bench despite his 100 million dollar contract and continued to despite the Brady led team getting beat the following week.

This reimagining that Tom arrived in time to save Bill and he was just a passenger is fanboy nonsense. Tom didn’t appear from the mist, Bill drafted him and his coaches like Charlie Weis (already had a ring on his finger) developed him. He threw 1 TD and 1 INT in the entirety of the 2001 playoffs.

Bill admits he was lucky to have Brady. Debate is over from Belichick' own mouth.

Brady doesn't win 6 rings without Bill but the talent was always there.

And no, Bill was not going to make the playoffs with Rohan Davey at QB for over half the season because Bledsoe was hurt over half the year regardless and the following year's team was not good. They barely went 9-7 with Brady under center. With Bledsoe they are 6-10 at best.

 

[Wozzy]

No one is saying Brady didn't benefit having Bill as his HC.

But Brady had the talent, it was always there. Bill and Brady were the perfect duo but act like Brady wouldn't have had success in an other organization is ludicrous.

I'm sure Bill Cower would have loved Brady had they drafted him. Kordell Stewart was a horrible QB but was the best option the Steelers had and yet Cower still took that team to Playoffs every year.

I didn’t say Brady wouldn’t have success on any other team… you said that. I said a terrible team.

Bill Cowher drafted Tee Martin ahead of Tom, he had his chance at him.

 

[TheRainMaker]

And no, Bill was not going to make the playoffs with Rohan Davey at QB for over half the season because Bledsoe was hurt over half the year

You mean Michael Bishop. Davey was a 2003 draft pick.

Bill Cowher drafted Tee Martin ahead of Tom, he had his chance at him.

Good point.

 

[Wozzy]

That wasn't a super team until Tom got there...hell they were 7-5 with him at one point. They were underdogs in every playoff game except the Washington one, but since he won the Superbowl now they're a superteam all of the sudden.

They led the NFL in passing yards and TD’s the year prior, Jameis also led the NFL in turnovers. They had everything they needed to win a ring except a QB and LT, they drafted a LT with their #1 and got Tom. Tom chose Tampa fully aware of this and I picked Tampa to win the Super Bowl before the season began. They also had the #1 ranked run defense in the NFL and drafted a bunch of early draft pick DB’s… they were loaded last year.

 

[JayNM]

It amazes me how the same people get baited into the same discussion, with the same people.

 

[IllegalContact]

No it's not. Lol

Of course it is

 

[venecol]

It amazes me how the same people get baited into the same discussion, with the same people.

 

[gobesmug]

You mean Michael Bishop. Davey was a 2003 draft pick.

Good point.

Michael Bishop was even worse lol.

Yeah that team after Bledsoe goes down is sitting at 0-9 and at that point after nearly dying Bledsoe is talking to Kraft saying get rid of Bill and get me some help with that #1 overall pick, I'll be ready for next year

 

[gobesmug]

They led the NFL in passing yards and TD’s the year prior, Jameis also led the NFL in turnovers. They had everything they needed to win a ring except a QB and LT, they drafted a LT with their #1 and got Tom. Tom chose Tampa fully aware of this and I picked Tampa to win the Super Bowl before the season began. They also had the #1 ranked run defense in the NFL and drafted a bunch of early draft pick DB’s… they were loaded last year.

They drafted a RT.

The Saints were and still are the better overall team.

Brady brought Gronk and AB with him to TB.

Phillip Rivers goes 6-10 with the Bucs last year if Rivers went to TB.

It's pathetic to denigrate Brady because you want elevate Bill to god level.

Bill is the best modern HC hands down. But it takes players to win otherwise why did the Pats go from 12-4 to 7-9.

Brady is a transcendant talent. Bill played a large role in a guiding him but Brady always had the talent

 

[Tottie]

This game will do nothing to determine anything between BB and Brady no matter how hard the media tries. When they go to the HOF this will be forgotten. Of course neither wins 6 without the other.

 

[gobesmug]

I didn’t say Brady wouldn’t have success on any other team… you said that. I said a terrible team.

Bill Cowher drafted Tee Martin ahead of Tom, he had his chance at him.

You’re talking about five years later? In 2000 they led the NFL in sacks and won 7 games.

Tom isn’t mobile and he wasn’t a polished pocket presence in 2000-2001. If he had the poor fortune of starting back then on a terrible team with poor blocking he never would have developed into the GOAT. It’s a fanboy fever dream… it doesn’t matter which terrible team it was.

Yeah you are saying Brady wouldn't be successful.

Also anyone who is a fan of the Pats and have seen Brady play for 20 years knows Brady in one of if not the best to ever evade the rush in the pocket.

That was the first thing I pointed out about Brady in comparison to Bledsoe was how much quicker Brady was in the pocket and didn't stand like a statue waiting to get hit.

Also the narrative of QBs getting broken is nonsense.

Peyton didn't get broken by Jim Moran for the first few years of his career when he led the league in Ints.

Drew Brees didn't get broken by playing for the Chargers.

Andrew Luck suffered injuries and lost his desire to play but he was pace to being a HOF QB with his stats had he stayed.

Derrick Carr was terrible, when Matt Schaub replaced him the Texans instantly looked better

 

[TheRainMaker]

Michael Bishop was even worse lol.

Yeah that team after Bledsoe goes down is sitting at 0-9 and at that point after nearly dying Bledsoe is talking to Kraft saying get rid of Bill and get me some help with that #1 overall pick, I'll be ready for next year

Yep, there’s a ton of deliusuonal posters on here that ignore the team started 0-2 and could barely move the ball with a $100M QB, yet assume the defense would’ve carried any other QB on the roster. Huard would’ve given them the best chance, but I don’t think they make the playoffs.

 

[gobesmug]

Yep, there’s a ton of deliusuonal posters on here that ignore the team started 0-2 and could barely move the ball with a $100M QB, yet assume the defense would’ve carried any other QB on the roster. Huard would’ve given them the best chance, but I don’t think they make the playoffs.

And that's not a knock against Bill.

No HC is making the playoffs with Huard and Bishop as QB options in that scenario let alone one of the GOATs

 

[Gumby]

Brady himself said he wouldn't have become the player he became without Belichick...so F off

GREAT POST!!!!

EVERYBODY who wants to post these silly ‘Team Bill this’ /‘Team Tom that’ accusations needs to watch this video.

Bill never wins 6 without Tom (id guess 2) but you could make the argument that in an alternate universe Where Tom was drafted by a team like the Jete, that he spends 2/3 years as a backup or practice squad member and ends up w a middling Baseball career.

Remember he was 4th string in year one, who else but BB would have kept him on the active roster. What other team ever had 4 QBs w none on IR???

 

[ashley]

GREAT POST!!!!

EVERYBODY who wants to post these silly ‘Team Bill this’ /‘Team Tom that’ accusations needs to watch this video.

Bill never wins 6 without Tom (id guess 2) but you could make the argument that in an alternate universe Where Tom was drafted by a team like the Jete, that he spends 2/3 years as a backup or practice squad member and ends up w a middling Baseball career.

Remember he was 4th string in year one, who else but BB would have kept him on the active roster. What other team ever had 4 QBs w none on IR???

Great video @Gumby and @MAC10, thanks for posting....this is a must watch!!

 

[sb1]

I don’t think it’s a certainty that Belichick would win any rings at all as HC without Tom. There’s no way we can prove it either way - unless the Pats somehow do win one soon with Mac- but right now there is more evidence to think he wouldn’t than the other way around.

Remember he was run out of Cleveland not because of the lack of success but because of his my-way-or-the-highway temperament that angered the fans and media there and eventually the owner. I couldn’t see another team being patient enough to put up with Bill being Bill for long without championships. How patient would Kraft have been? I don’t know.

 

[Wozzy]

They drafted a RT.

The Saints were and still are the better overall team.

Brady brought Gronk and AB with him to TB.

Phillip Rivers goes 6-10 with the Bucs last year if Rivers went to TB.

It's pathetic to denigrate Brady because you want elevate Bill to god level.

Bill is the best modern HC hands down. But it takes players to win otherwise why did the Pats go from 12-4 to 7-9.

Brady is a transcendant talent. Bill played a large role in a guiding him but Brady always had the talent

Who is denigrating Brady? Suggesting football is a team sport and QB's are wholly overrated is not a shot at Tom, it's an opinion based on Nick Foles and Joe Flacco winning Super Bowls or Deshaun Watson being the best statistical QB in the NFL last year and winning 4 games. QB is an important position, you can't win without an O-Line either and will lose close games without a kicker or defense.

Tampa was a better team than New Orleans last year and not just at QB. Don't make me list Tampa's weapons which have three HOF'ers counted among the group, assuming Godwin stays healthy... or point out how Michael Thomas only started five games last year for the Saints.

You mentioned Brady versus Jake Delhomme, here's there numbers from 2004 where they both played 16 games:

Delhomme: 3886 Yards, 29 TD's, 15 INT's, 7.3 YPA, 87.3 QBR
Brady: 3692 Yards, 28 TD's, 14 INT's, 7.8 YPA, 92.6 QBR

Their numbers were almost identical, both players ended up in the Super Bowl in 2003, both players played really well... Delhomme arguably played better than Brady in that game.

2003 Super Bowl:
Delhomme: 323 Yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's, 113.6 QBR
Brady: 354 Yards, 3 TD's, 1 INT's, 100.5 QBR

The Panthers lost that game because Jake got sacked 4 times, Brady zero times, because Vrabel forced a fumble that Seymour recovered, because Adam V hit a clutch 41 yard field goal... not because Brady was substatially better or even a little better than Delhomme.

 

[Wozzy]

Yep, there’s a ton of deliusuonal posters on here that ignore the team started 0-2 and could barely move the ball with a $100M QB, yet assume the defense would’ve carried any other QB on the roster. Huard would’ve given them the best chance, but I don’t think they make the playoffs.

And yet we have a history of many teams playing poorly the first month of an NFL season, including teams with the greatest QB in the land that go on to improve and win games. Using the first month of games as a barometer is a good way to look foolish over the longterm, just like those that said the team wasn't talented enough in 2014, 2016 and 2018... then with no major infusion of talent those teams went on to win rings.

Execution matters as much or even more than "talent," take a look at this year's Patriots as an example, consider why Bill ever had to mutter the words "we're onto Cincinnati" in 2014.

Teams that execute poorly, make mistakes, create penalties are not always bad teams... sometimes they're good teams playing poorly. The Chiefs right now are much better than a 1-2 team talent-wise, they're playing poorly.

 

[venecol]

I don’t think it’s a certainty that Belichick would win any rings at all as HC without Tom. There’s no way we can prove it either way - unless the Pats somehow do win one soon with Mac- but right now there is more evidence to think he wouldn’t than the other way around.

Remember he was run out of Cleveland not because of the lack of success but because of his my-way-or-the-highway temperament that angered the fans and media there and eventually the owner. I couldn’t see another team being patient enough to put up with Bill being Bill for long without championships. How patient would Kraft have been? I don’t know.

Yea, there's a lot of fantasy "what if" scenarios being blurted out but the reality is this: Bill has a 0.456% winning percentage in games he coached without Tom Brady as his QB. That's worse than Rex Ryan, Lovie Smith, and freaking Ted Marchibroda. That's why Bill acknowledges that he was lucky to have Brady because he was. That doesn't take away from their greatness together or the 6 rings they won "together." Let's just not continue to delude ourselves with this notion that Bill can win with just any average QB. That's just nonsense.




We have to hope that Mac is "the guy."

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Let's just not continue to delude ourselves with this notion that Bill can win with just any average QB. That's just nonsense.

You mean like Matt Cassell?