Wickersham book discussion

[lancerman]

Brady went to a stacked roster.... A great qb isnt great without a supporting cast. Why did it take over 10 yrs between Superbowl titles?

Idk, but why is the 10 year gap on Brady? Bill was there throughout the gap.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Idk, but why is the 10 year gap on Brady? Bill was there throughout the gap.

Belichick has never won a division title without brady. 9 years (going on) without brady and no division titles

with brady as his starting QB, 17 seasons. 16 division titles (2002 lost on tie breaker)

 

[sb1]

So if the meeting was between Kraft and Brady how would Wickersham know what they were talking about?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Bill O Brien >>>>> Mcdaniels

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Yes it is made to discuss but to have nothing to say but criticism about the best who has ever done it is ignorant.
Yes his job is to win and he has won more than anyone. Appreciate that. You aren’t a browns fan, you have been gifted more success than any fan has a right to expect, yet all you can do is cry.

I agree that Bill has won a lot and we have witnessed a lot of winning. Its been a wild ride and I admit I didn't do anything to deserve it.

With that said... it doesn't matter what Belichick did yesterday. Just like with Tom Brady. Even you yourself said: "i felt like it was time to move on from tom brady".

One day, the same will be said for Belichick. Whenever that is.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Oh come on…this isn’t your best take.

The dynasty was founded on winning. Getting every edge. Doing everything possible to win every football game.

Preparation is one of the key pillars to support the arch of winning.

But to think that the goal of winning a championship game, with all the dedication and sacrifice for all the players and coaches who came there to win a ring, should be subverted for an instance of poor preparation, and to put oneself at a stubborn self-inflicted disadvantage to uphold a pillar, is just irrational.

Every. Single. Time. Bill says coaches need to put players in the best position to win. He didn’t on that day. You know it. I know it. We all know it. This has become a weird meta argument of circular reasoning and bizarre principle/virtue worshipping.

If Doug Pedersen had benched Alshon Jeffrey, due to him being “demoted” for lack of focus, activated him, and he was standing on the sidelines while other receivers dropped passes and looked like jokers, you’d be using Pedersen as a shining example of idiocy and someone who takes their own rules too seriously and thought the coach was bigger than the team, while Bill is always about the team over his own ego and a guy who uses common sense foremost. I have zero doubt about that.

In all sincerity, great post.

If i'm comprehending your argument correctly, in my opinion you are placing a disproportionate amount of responsibility on the coaches to put the players in a position for success. That's not fair.

As Bill says, players win games. They train. They study. They practice. They have a required level of health to perform.

For four years now, I have said MB was sick, he fell behind in game prep, his energy was down and he was basically scratched because health or otherwise, according to the coaching staff, was not going to play as well as others on the roster. Fat Matt signed off on it. BB signed off on it. In July of 2018, Malcolm admitted it.

Fans can disagree all the want. Great posters like you can argue the logic behind the decision until 2053.

At the end of it all, Malcolm admitted he wasn't prepared to play, and the coaching staff-- for whatever reason- was VERY skittish to put him in that game.

That's it.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree that Bill has won a lot and we have witnessed a lot of winning. Its been a wild ride and I admit I didn't do anything to deserve it.

With that said... it doesn't matter what Belichick did yesterday. Just like with Tom Brady. Even you yourself said: "i felt like it was time to move on from tom brady".

One day, the same will be said for Belichick. Whenever that is.

I find it ridiculous for people to witness the greatest success the sport has ever seen, and feel so entitled that they can do nothing by criticize, and do it with arrogance, vitriol disdain.
Ted Williams was the last man to hit .400. How would you assess people who feel it necessary to discuss the 60% of the time he failed, with the negativity you see here and imply he sucks?

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

We are on to Tampa Bay

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I find it ridiculous for people to witness the greatest success the sport has ever seen, and feel so entitled that they can do nothing by criticize, and do it with arrogance, vitriol disdain.
Ted Williams was the last man to hit .400. How would you assess people who feel it necessary to discuss the 60% of the time he failed, with the negativity you see here and imply he

I get it.

However, if this season and next season end poorly then it might be time to consider moving on. It doesn't mean Belichick sucks nor does it take away his GOAT status.

It just means the Patriot way and the culture is dead. I just don't know if I would be okay with 5-6 losing seasons under Belichick just because of his past accomplishments.

Would you be?

 

[SVN]

So if the meeting was between Kraft and Brady how would Wickersham know what they were talking about?

Lets see if this really gets asked with brady or kraft tomorrow? I am sure jim gray will ask in his own biased way to tom who will brush it off with a non answer. But if this was the other way round - bb and kraft met abut cutting brady in 2015 or something , our own media will be jumping over hoops to ask . Ultimately , if you play the media game well , you not have open season on you like it is now.

 

[Ring 6]

I get it.

However, if this season and next season end poorly then it might be time to consider moving on. It doesn't mean Belichick sucks nor does it take away his GOAT status.

It just means the Patriot way and the culture is dead. I just don't know if I would be okay with 5-6 losing seasons under Belichick just because of his past accomplishments.

Would you be?

This season has just started and next isn’t even discussable, much less 5-6 years down the road.
Can’t you see what you are doing? You just projected 5-6 losing seasons on a man who just had his first in 20 years.
Yes if belichick stops being belichick then it would change people’s feelings about him but he hasn’t.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Wickersham.

S. Park nailed it.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

This season has just started and next isn’t even discussable, much less 5-6 years down the road.
Can’t you see what you are doing? You just projected 5-6 losing seasons on a man who just had his first in 20 years.
Yes if belichick stops being belichick then it would change people’s feelings about him but he hasn’t.

I am just making a point.

I know 5 years hasn't passed yet, obviously. Also, I'm not even saying this season will end poorly. I am just playing the "if" game.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

I find it ridiculous for people to witness the greatest success the sport has ever seen, and feel so entitled that they can do nothing by criticize, and do it with arrogance, vitriol disdain.
Ted Williams was the last man to hit .400. How would you assess people who feel it necessary to discuss the 60% of the time he failed, with the negativity you see here and imply he sucks?

Theres a difference here. Ted Williams proved regardless of the talent or coaching you put around him, he’s still a career .344 hitter. Which is incredible. Even in 1957 at age 38 with bum knees he hit .388 beating out a prime Mickey mantle who hit .365. Mantle may have been one of the best ever

Which brings me too..can bill win without brady? He couldn’t do it before brady, can he do it after? So far it hasn’t been pretty

 

[Tottie]

So if the meeting was between Kraft and Brady how would Wickersham know what they were talking about?

Just like everything else this is probably incredibly misleading. If this actually happened like this and that's a big if, what else is he omitting? Is it possible Bill was thinking of leaving but didn't and they were simply brainstorming? What they decided to plan a munity but didn't follow through? This is weak.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

We are on to Tampa Bay

that shtick gets old when we don’t win anymore and have an NFL offense that resembles a 1955 Detroit Lions team

 

[venecol]

It’s all ridiculous. Patriots fans have witnessed the greatest run in history and so many of them can’t wait to trash the people who did it. It’s just so time deaf to me for someone to criticize the best who has ever done it as if they would do a better job. Appreciate what you were lucky enough to be handed.

I don’t think I said that but I did say if Newton is brought back them belichick needs to be checked for dimensia.

I saw a full season of cam suckage.

And I see a team that evidently doesn’t care about putting the worst QB in the nfl on the field so they brought him back.

Let’s also recognize that newton has loudly proclaimed he deserved to be a starter so the fact that he signed here before even hitting free agency and talking to any other trans means he expects to be the starter and has probably been given assurances.

Then is no reason to wait until the season is buried and the tombstone up to declare it dead.

I think belichick has lost it.
You CANT win with cam Newton.
Belichick witnessed the worst QB in the nfl and says hey let’s do that again.

He has 70 mill of cap room and he chooses to not fix the biggest problem on the team.
This is the worst decision he has ever made by multitudes of degrees.

His record is the greatest ever
His decision today is the worst ever.

 

[venecol]

I find it ridiculous for people to witness the greatest success the sport has ever seen, and feel so entitled that they can do nothing by criticize, and do it with arrogance, vitriol disdain.
Ted Williams was the last man to hit .400. How would you assess people who feel it necessary to discuss the 60% of the time he failed, with the negativity you see here and imply he sucks?

I think belichick has lost it.
You CANT win with cam Newton.
Belichick witnessed the worst QB in the nfl and says hey let’s do that again.

He has 70 mill of cap room and he chooses to not fix the biggest problem on the team.
This is the worst decision he has ever made by multitudes of degrees.

His record is the greatest ever
His decision today is the worst ever.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Belichick is a defensive mastermind who has no idea how to Rebuild an offense in today’s NFL

 

[venecol]

Andy "The Taliban" Johnson:
"Do as I say not as I do."

Hypocrite.