Patriots Training Camp Day 16 (8/24) NYG

[Mack Herron]

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

Too bad the other good one is in our division.

Mac has been very efficient so far. I am very impressed. Glad to see that the "deeper" numbers confirm what we saw on the field.

 

[RobertWeathers]

 

[Ring 6]

This starter thing is overrated. The truth is if Cam plays like he did last year, patriots will bench him. They did it last year with Stidham, they won’t hesitate to do it again. (The only reason Stidham or Hoyer did not take the job from Cam last year was that they were awful as well.)

If Cam is playing well and their quarterback play is close (as it appears to be) what’s the downside of having Mac Jones sit and learn instead of having to risk pulling your rookie first round pick out of the game, damaging his confidence. Just seems that there is so much urgency to start Jones and so far there is no compelling reason to do so.

There are very compelling reasons. This is Jones team, the discussion is only when.
It should be now because
1) sitting on the bench will do nothing for his development. The sooner he plays the sooner, and faster he develops
2) this team needs every win. They are chasing a team that went 13-3 last year. They can’t afford losses to see if can still sucks
3) the first month of the season is critical. You have to beat Miami at home and the jets on the road to contend. New Orleans is a loss they cannot afford and then Tampa is one of their toughest games. 1-3 with cam vs 3-1 with Mac his season defining.
4) the second month includes 4 very winnable games. Having Jones with 4 games under his belt going into those us a much better plan than starting him after he sat around doing nothing while Newton was losing games.
The compelling reason is we want to win this year and it’s very hard to win when you have the worst QB in the league.

 

[scott99]

Not saying Mac is gonna be a star, but that’s Mac’s mindset. He was probably upset by his performance yesterday, it wasn’t up to HIS standards. He wasn’t horrible by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m sure he wasn’t happy. That’s what makes the great ones great, that insane drive and determination to win, to be great. He has that, who knows if he’ll wind up being a great QB, but he has that self motivation drive to improve every day.

 

[Ring 6]

Cam Pipp

 

[RobertWeathers]

Cam Pipp

No doubt in my mind hes starting by Halloween or sooner.

 

[pats99]

He is a rookie in the most complex offenses in the NFL. How long has he been in the patriots system ? He will be the first to tell you that he is still messing up out there and grasping the system is a work in progress. He has played two pre-season games, thats it. His practices by his own accord have been inconsistent. Its not like their play hasn't been close. If this is an argument about why a rookie quarterback should start in week one versus sitting and learning (if he doesn't have to start), am not going to go there. That argument will go on forever...

 

[Bonzo]

It's a perfect storm

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

He is a rookie in the most complex offenses in the NFL. How long has he been in the patriots system ? He will be the first to tell you that he is still messing up out there and grasping the system is a work in progress. He has played two pre-season games, thats it. His practices by his own accord have been inconsistent. Its not like their play hasn't been close. If this is an argument about why a rookie quarterback should start in week one versus sitting and learning (if he doesn't have to start), am not going to go there. That argument will go on forever...

If we had the version of Alex Smith the Chiefs had when they sat Mahomes for a year, most people around here, despite Mac looking great, would be okay with Smith starting.

The problem is that we have the corpse of Cam Newton. He is a QB that does not fit our system and whose best attributes are not as big an advantage as they used to be. Newton COULD very well do WORSE than a rookie Jones.

Question is:

- How much importance do we put on THIS YEAR versus the long-term development of Mac Jones.

The answer to this question might influence who you start... unless you think the best for both Mac AND the team is to start him ASAP. Which could very well be the case. We know that the Pats are at least considering it. Smarter people than me will make that decision and given the sustained success we have had, I am inclined to trust them.

 

[fnordcircle]

Why would I be sad when I basically called Mac to the Pats 10 months ago. I'm also unlike you where I'd be rooting for the Pats to win rather than how you proclaimed you know more than Belichick does. Must be ironic for you if Cam lost his job because he shares your views on covid.

This battle has left me really conflicted.

Do I root for the poster who thinks they are smarter than Belichick or the poster who thinks they are smarter than McDaniels...

 

[pats99]

Pulling your QB in the second half of a blowout loss is not the same thing as naming a new starter going into a game. Cam Newton has never been benched for real on the Patriots, and we don't really know what the threshold is for how bad he has to play to make that happen.

I see everyone bring up the confidence aspect for Mac, but I don't really get it. Isn't confidence one of the intangibles we already expected Mac to have which contributed to his draft selection? Who's to say Cam losing confidence isn't an equal risk? Who's to say Mac wouldn't be equally shaken by losing the position battle right now? A good team player should be accepting of whatever his role is during a given play, game, or season. If benching either of our QBs is enough to send them into a career ruining spiral, maybe that just means they weren't going to pan out in the first place.

Not playing Mac out of fear that he might get rattled by a hypothetical benching seems very cowardly and based on more than one assumption that might not even hold. He should be the starter as soon as the staff thinks he's better than Cam for the team.

One year contract Cam losing confidence is not an equal risk. Mac Jones is a multi millon dollar first round pick, hopefully the future of our franchise.

Patrick Mahomes started in week 17, I would say he turned out ok.

"Who's to say Mac wouldn't be equally shaken by losing the position battle right now." Did u hear his comments today ?

 

[captain stone]

Looking like Gilmore may not play in pre-season and may not be ready for the start of the season.
If so, Williams and M. Jackson could be competing for a starting role.

If so, then we need to acquire another CB.

 

[pats99]

If we had the version of Alex Smith the Chiefs had when they sat Mahomes for a year, most people around here, despite Mac looking great, would be okay with Smith starting.

The problem is that we have the corpse of Cam Newton. He is a QB that does not fit our system and whose best attributes are not as big an advantage as they used to be. Newton COULD very well do WORSE than a rookie Jones.

Question is:

- How much importance do we put on THIS YEAR versus the long-term development of Mac Jones.

The answer to this question might influence who you start... unless you think the best for both Mac AND the team is to start him ASAP. Which could very well be the case. We know that the Pats are at least considering it. Smarter people than me will make that decision and given the sustained success we have had, I am inclined to trust them.

"Smarter people than me will make that decision and given the sustained success we have had, I am inclined to trust them." I am with you there !!

 

[Ring 6]

If we had the version of Alex Smith the Chiefs had when they sat Mahomes for a year, most people around here, despite Mac looking great, would be okay with Smith starting.

The problem is that we have the corpse of Cam Newton. He is a QB that does not fit our system and whose best attributes are not as big an advantage as they used to be. Newton COULD very well do WORSE than a rookie Jones.

Question is:

- How much importance do we put on THIS YEAR versus the long-term development of Mac Jones.

The answer to this question might influence who you start... unless you think the best for both Mac AND the team is to start him ASAP. Which could very well be the case. We know that the Pats are at least considering it. Smarter people than me will make that decision and given the sustained success we have had, I am inclined to trust them.

Exactly. And I do not see how it helps Jones to sit.
No one has really given me a valid reason that it is better for him to not play football than to play football.

This offense is perfectly designed for a rookie QB. Heavy running, 2 TEs who are very good receivers, which creates screen opportunities, play action, one read throws and built in mismatches, within a system that prioritizes get the ball out quickly. A very strong defense that supports a conservative offensive game plan and prevents needing the qb to do too much.
We open at home against Miami, then the jets and a decimated saints team in foxboro. Those seem like 3 ideal games to have the defense take charge, run the ball a lot, let Mac see success with a simple game plan as he builds it up.
Having him sit on the bench just makes him stagnate.

 

[Ring 6]

This battle has left me really conflicted.

Do I root for the poster who thinks they are smarter than Belichick or the poster who thinks they are smarter than McDaniels...

Who thinks they are smarter than Belichick?

 

[Ring 6]

He is a rookie in the most complex offenses in the NFL. How long has he been in the patriots system ? He will be the first to tell you that he is still messing up out there and grasping the system is a work in progress. He has played two pre-season games, thats it. His practices by his own accord have been inconsistent. Its not like their play hasn't been close. If this is an argument about why a rookie quarterback should start in week one versus sitting and learning (if he doesn't have to start), am not going to go there. That argument will go on forever...

What does he learn sitting?

 

[Ring 6]

No doubt in my mind hes starting by Halloween or sooner.

Yeah, I got Labor Day.

 

[Bonzo]

I got [checks schedule] by Sunday at 6p

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yeah, I got Labor Day.

At this point it's entirely possible.