Yes, Asiasi and Keene Are Flops

[RobertWeathers]

That's not true (I liked the Mac Jones pick, for instance) and it isn't shtick if time shows many of these warnings to be well-founded.

Love ya Captain but you are incredibly premature and over the top on many of your opinions regarding rooks and FAs. .

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think Bill has an idea if they're players or not...

An idea maybe but without ample time to evaluate production in practices and games no

 

[Ollie]

But it's obviously not. There are players where you "know" in just a practice or two, yet people here continue to pretend that there's some nearly-set minimum of time required for draftees, as long as they are Patriots draftees. I mean, you know that people here have no problem calling other teams' draftees busts in year one. The sensible position to take on this thread's title is to say "Yes, they flopped. That can obviously then be followed up with something like "But the team has looked to fix that problem, and hopefully one or both of these kids can surprise us moving forward", if one is an optimist or just thinks the particular circumstances merit it. But, for some reason, we rarely seem to take such sensible approaches to failed Patriots players around here.



There's a difference between giving players second chances and pretending they haven't been flops. There's also a difference between evaluating an entire draft class and evaluating individual players. And we also generally acknowledge a difference in how teams handle high round players versus how they handle lower round players. If the Patriots cut Tre Nixon this offseason, few will be screaming about him needing 2-3 years to show out, but Barmore/Jones getting the axe would lead to much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So if a player doesn't succeed in his first year he is a flop? So Damien Harris was a flop? And then whey they succeed you unflop them and they are a success? The sensible position i believe is perhaps more nuanced than flop or not and each player should be looked at on their own merits and context. They might believe that Asiasi might need more time to develop or that he might have potential to be a decent squad player but maybe not a pro bowler. For me flop or not after 1 year is far too premature and black and white.

 

[luuked]

1) We used two top draft picks (3rd rounders) to secure our TE's of the future with contracts through 2023.

2) One year later, Belichick uses $25M a year AAV (with $46.25M guaranteed) to sign TE's for the same contract time period (actually, we have an additional year on Smith's contract.

3) How can the conclusion be anything other than Belichick believed that he change his past evaluation and secure two new TE's?

4) Yes, I expect one our two 2020 3rd rounders to make the team as a #3 TE, or TE/FB/HB. They beat out Izzo and will beat out LeCosse. That is a truly awful return on two 3rd rounders.

You are becoming the equivalent of Buzzfeed with just posting unmitigated crappy threads regularly. And this might be among the dumbest.

Maybe slow it down for a for a few weeks and think a bit more before abusing that create thread button.

Quality over quantity and all that jazz.

I wont even get into the TE debate because it has been had dozens of times and nothing has changed. Just keep in mind you are talking about third rounders after their rookie season (!!) in a year where they got only a virtual offseason and got both injured at various times.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

That's not true (I liked the Mac Jones pick, for instance) and it isn't shtick if time shows many of these warnings to be well-founded.

Even if some of it sticks, it is still throwing sh!t against the wall.

 

[Wozzy]

Even if some of it sticks, it is still throwing sh!t against the wall.

The average NFL career last three years, the majority of draft picks washout and a third of the NFL is made up of UDFA's.

In short, if you said every draft pick sucked you'd be right 60-70% of the time, you'd be even more correct if you excluded the first round picks.

I'd be more impressed if these Debby Downers would tell us who the first round busts were going to be in advance and also tell us which later round picks were going to be superstars... they can't and won't.

They love to be edgy and tell us most lottery tickets are losers... then when there is an occasional winner they quickly move on to the next ticket.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Who? Did these two even see the field last season?

 

[patsfanincleveland]

The average NFL career last three years, the majority of draft picks washout and a third of the NFL is made up of UDFA's.

In short, if you said every draft pick sucked you'd be right 60-70% of the time, you'd be even more correct if you excluded the first round picks.

I'd be more impressed if these Debby Downers would tell us who the first round busts were going to be in advance and also tell us which later round picks were going to be superstars... they can't and won't.

They love to be edgy and tell us most lottery tickets are losers... then when there is an occasional winner they quickly move on to the next ticket.

The Chad Jackson squad should read this.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

It's ok to admit that the pair flopped, and that the Patriots were desperate as a result. People can still hope that the second year players show some level of improvement moving forward. The board, even more than most years, seems to be far too busy missing most of the mid-range for the sake of the extreme points on these issues.


And Bethel wasn't a huge expenditure, while the TEs were, so the comparison really doesn't hold up.

Yeah, actually the comparison holds up very well

 

[DaBruinz]

The prices paid for Henry & Smith were NOT "reasonable." They were Top of the market prices.

Actually, yes they were reasonable considering the talent they represent. You'd know this if your weren't so friggin arrogant and hated anything that BB does that you didn't think of first.

 

[DaBruinz]

I hope he understands that now, but I'm not sure he did in 2011. . . .

That was the year that they Drafted Lee Smith and cut him hoping to get him to the PS. They had Dorin ****erson and Carson Butler on the PS. Definitely not idea. And, again, it's a matter of the talent available, Cap available and whether the talent is better than what they had.

 

[Bill Lee]

1) We used two top draft picks (3rd rounders) to secure our TE's of the future with contracts through 2023.

2) One year later, Belichick uses $25M a year AAV (with $46.25M guaranteed) to sign TE's for the same contract time period (actually, we have an additional year on Smith's contract.

3) How can the conclusion be anything other than Belichick believed that he change his past evaluation and secure two new TE's?

4) Yes, I expect one our two 2020 3rd rounders to make the team as a #3 TE, or TE/FB/HB. They beat out Izzo and will beat out LeCosse. That is a truly awful return on two 3rd rounders.

3) If BB had the same cap room last year and the same FAs were available last year likely he would have gone with the young emerging vets to fill an obvious position of need, instead all he had was draft picks so that's what he used.

4) it's not that unusual to swing and miss in the third round. Heck, almost half of first rounders don't make it to their 2nd contract with the team that signs them.

5) Why do we get so much glee to on our own players and our own front office at the first possible minute? It seems perverse to get joy out of being first to poop on the team and the players. Why not wait till their time with the team ends instead of not even seeing if they are on the team this season or make it to PS. Why not wait to see what the team as a whole looks like instead of picking things apart?

 

[DaBruinz]

Money to burn?

He might have used some of the money to sign Thuney, another player, to extend Jackson or to extend Gilmore. Also, that money could have been used in 2022.

That being said, I'm fine with signings. We needed the upgrades.

They TRIED signing Thuney. Thuney CHOSE to go to the Chiefs.
Since you haven't been paying attention, the Pats still have over 15M in cap space. MORE than enough to extend Jackson AND Gilmore.

Yes, they had "money to burn" in this off-season with over $63M. 5th most in the league and the most they've had available since Belichick took over.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's not true (I liked the Mac Jones pick, for instance) and it isn't shtick if time shows many of these warnings to be well-founded.

Time has shown that a MAJORITY of your schtick has ZERO foundation in reality. A broken clock is correct more often than you are.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Sometimes a rookie has a redshirt year because he sucks and sometimes a rookie has a redshirt year because he is thought to have a lot to learn to be ready. The latter is especially true under COVID protocols.

If you had to give James White a thumbs up vs. thumbs down vote after his rookie year, it would have been thumbs down. He didn't do jack.

The young TEs might never contribute, but it's too soon to judge. If NE had huge cap space a year ago, I'd think that they would have signed the best available TEs, which at least makes you wonder if signing the best available TEs this offseason is any reflection on what the rookies did or did not do in their first year, or if it was merely an opportunity that was not available a year ago..

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Sometimes a rookie has a redshirt year because he sucks and sometimes a rookie has a redshirt year because he is thought to have a lot to learn to be ready. The latter is especially true under COVID protocols.

If you had to give James White a thumbs up vs. thumbs down vote after his rookie year, it would have been thumbs down. He didn't do jack.

The young TEs might never contribute, but it's too soon to judge. If NE had huge cap space a year ago, I'd think that they would have signed the best available TEs, which at least makes you wonder if signing the best available TEs this offseason is any reflection on what the rookies did or did not do in their first year, or if it was merely an opportunity that was not available a year ago..

It would be interesting to go back to the 2016 AFCCG in Denver and see who wanted James White's head after the loss.

 

[203Pat]

I would say it is early to call them busts but all signs look like we are headed that way. Maybe with two highly paid guys in front of them the pressure is off somewhat and when one of those highly paid guys gets injured there is a chance either Asiasi or Keene step up. I won't hold my breath but it would be nice if one of them could find a role.

 

[mgteich]

So if a player doesn't succeed in his first year he is a flop? .

No.

Harris is a fine example. The judgement is not made by fans, based on stats from his rookie year.

Much more is involved in a judgement. I strongly agree that fans do NOT have sufficient information to make independent judgements. What we have is the actions of Belichick in spending using 2 high draft picks, and spending $25M the next year on the same position.

Asiasi and Keene might be a 3rd TE and or a TE/HB for us. We can decide whether that it a "flop". Perhaps that is an exaggeration, perhaps not. The potential of two 3rd rounders went form potential starters to potential #3 TE's in the space of a year, based on the judgement of coaches and staff. Perhaps my using of the word "flop" is an exaggeration. As long as a player is on the team making some contribution, that player could be an OK pick and not a flop. This certainly (to me) would be a disappointment after one year of practice and play with a mediocre (at best) quarterback. But I respect Belichick's judgement.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

imo they were poor picks because there were much better tight ends and other positional players on the board

 

[captain stone]

Love ya Captain but you are incredibly premature and over the top on many of your opinions regarding rooks and FAs. .

Premature...Prescient...