Still No # 1WR

[Deus Irae]

Well I am or was one of those people. But good point. I guess I never fit Edelman into the definition of a "# 1 WR" although have always considered him a # 1 target.

Because Edelman started out as the Welker replacement, it became almost universally believed that he was just a slot WR. In fact, he spent a fair time on the outside, though was obviously not a traditional OWR. And, like Welker, his reputation as a WR has suffered for it. We don't hear that same sort of dismissiveness about those who've followed. This article sort of touches, impliedly, on the positional evolution in the minds of the people:

Larry Fitzgerald, Eric Decker among top slot receivers

 

[VJCPatriot]

We have now gone through free agency and the draft and surprisingly we still do not have anything close to a # 1 receiver on the team. High concern as there is no deep threat or a player that can "take the top" off the defense.

You did say "Take the top" off the defense, right? That's Agholor in a nutshell.

In his last season with the Raiders, Agholor averaged 18.7 yards per reception and caught 8 TDs.

Meanwhile the following three top WRs tallied as follows:

Stefon Diggs "only" had 12.1 yards per reception with 8 TDs.

DeAndre Hopkins "only" had 12.2 yards per reception with 6 TDs.

Justin Jefferson had 15.9 yards per reception with 7 TDs.

Those were the top 3 wide receivers in the NFL last season in 2020, and Agholor had a higher 'big play' ratio than any of them as evidenced by his 18.7 YPR average and he caught as many TDs as any of them.

What about raw athleticism and speed, Can Agholor match the top 3 studs?
Let's look at combine scores, how did Agholor compare to this top three trio?

Agholor 4.42 40

Stefon Diggs 4.46 40

Deandre Hopkins 4.57 40

Justin Jefferson 4.43 40

Wait what's that? How can this be? Agholor had the fastest timed speed compared to the three NFL receiving leaders last year?

It's absolutely FALSE that Agholor can't take the top off a defense. He has the athleticism and he has the numbers that show he can easily be a deep play threat.

Now is Agholor going to be the focus of the Patriots offense? Based on how much we paid to bring in the two new tight ends, probably not.

But he has more than enough speed to burn to 'take the top off' and make the defensive backs at least FEAR being burned by his speed. Let's not panic folks. BB and McDaniels have a plan on how to use all the new toys. Just because you didn't get a top 3 'name brand' wide receiver, does not mean that the Pats don't have a 'burner' to unleash against defenses this upcoming 2021 season.

But a video is worth a thousand words, isn't it? Check him out.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Are you saying we need a speedster, or a 1000 yard WR? Because we already have both.

Agholor led the league in yards per catch/attempt. He's already a speedster. This is what he does. Even if you don't recognize it yet.

Meyers is already a 1000 yard talent at WR.

Every single time the Pats won a ring 6 different times, it defied the claim of the historical need for a big name receiver to win....

.

The rings had a particular player contributing to each one of them. Mac has to deliver.

 

[Bourne Patriot]

8 more pages of the same discussion that appears after every free agency & draft... because people cling to the hope of another Randy Moss 2007 year. Sure it was fun but we also lost that year.. shouldn't you be happy we are going with a formula that resulted in a 2nd dynasty?

It's Agholor deep and 2 top TE's.. move on.

 

[ivanvamp]

The Pats didn't have a "#1" receiver when they won the SB after the 2001 season, the 2003 season, 2004 season, 2014 season, 2016 season, or 2018 season.

Here's what a "#1" receiver (as fans often understand it) looks like: Stefan Diggs, Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown (non-crazy version), Tyreek Hill, DeAndre Hopkins, Davante Adams, etc.

The only time the Pats, under BB, have had that is when they had Randy Moss. But otherwise, their top receivers have been: Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, etc. Excellent receivers, clutch players, very productive, but not "#1" receivers. And they've managed to win six Super Bowls without having a "#1" receiver. Gronk in his prime was as big a mismatch for defenses as a true "#1" receiver, so that helped, but they won 2001, 2003, 2004, and 2016 without Gronk (remember he was hurt in 2016 and Bennett was the TE for them), and 2018 Gronk was a shell of his former self.

They've never needed a "#1" receiver to win it all. So I don't care about THAT. I care that their offense, on the whole, is diverse and good. They have a dominant OL, excellent RBs, two excellent TEs, and three quality receivers - Agholor, Bourne, and Meyers - even if they don't have a true "#1" receiver. Of course it would be great to have one of those too, but they can definitely win without one. The key, really, is QB.

 

[Steve102]

Because they had Brady. Brady can make things work at receiver that would be a struggle on other teams. The days of putting crap out there at wideout and expect a great offense is over. It was always a luxury but that is not the case anymore.

Disagree, with a caveat. When has this team had a "great" WR? You need adequate pass catchers. 2006 and last year were not adequate.

 

[bigballas]

whatcha mean no #1?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You did say "Take the top" off the defense, right? That's Agholor in a nutshell.

In his last season with the Raiders, Agholor averaged 18.7 yards per reception and caught 8 TDs.

Meanwhile the following three top WRs tallied as follows:

Stefon Diggs "only" had 12.1 yards per reception with 8 TDs.

DeAndre Hopkins "only" had 12.2 yards per reception with 6 TDs.

Justin Jefferson had 15.9 yards per reception with 7 TDs.

Those were the top 3 wide receivers in the NFL last season in 2020, and Agholor had a higher 'big play' ratio than any of them as evidenced by his 18.7 YPR average and he caught as many TDs as any of them.

What about raw athleticism and speed, Can Agholor match the top 3 studs?
Let's look at combine scores, how did Agholor compare to this top three trio?

Agholor 4.42 40

Stefon Diggs 4.46 40

Deandre Hopkins 4.57 40

Justin Jefferson 4.43 40

Wait what's that? How can this be? Agholor had the fastest timed speed compared to the three NFL receiving leaders last year?

It's absolutely FALSE that Agholor can't take the top off a defense. He has the athleticism and he has the numbers that show he can easily be a deep play threat.

Now is Agholor going to be the focus of the Patriots offense? Based on how much we paid to bring in the two new tight ends, probably not.

But he has more than enough speed to burn to 'take the top off' and make the defensive backs at least FEAR being burned by his speed. Let's not panic folks. BB and McDaniels have a plan on how to use all the new toys. Just because you didn't get a top 3 'name brand' wide receiver, does not mean that the Pats don't have a 'burner' to unleash against defenses this upcoming 2021 season.

But a video is worth a thousand words, isn't it? Check him out.

The question is whether 2020 was a breakout year (perhaps combination of new quarterback, system, personal improvement) or if it was an outlier. As a team with a lot of money to spend, the Patriots could afford to take that gamble. Algohor’s career stats in totality tell a much different story than 2020.

 

[amfootball]

The Pats didn't have a "#1" receiver when they won the SB after the 2001 season, the 2003 season, 2004 season, 2014 season, 2016 season, or 2018 season.

Here's what a "#1" receiver (as fans often understand it) looks like: Stefan Diggs, Michael Thomas, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown (non-crazy version), Tyreek Hill, DeAndre Hopkins, Davante Adams, etc.

The only time the Pats, under BB, have had that is when they had Randy Moss. But otherwise, their top receivers have been: Troy Brown, Deion Branch, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, etc. Excellent receivers, clutch players, very productive, but not "#1" receivers. And they've managed to win six Super Bowls without having a "#1" receiver. Gronk in his prime was as big a mismatch for defenses as a true "#1" receiver, so that helped, but they won 2001, 2003, 2004, and 2016 without Gronk (remember he was hurt in 2016 and Bennett was the TE for them), and 2018 Gronk was a shell of his former self.

They've never needed a "#1" receiver to win it all. So I don't care about THAT. I care that their offense, on the whole, is diverse and good. They have a dominant OL, excellent RBs, two excellent TEs, and three quality receivers - Agholor, Bourne, and Meyers - even if they don't have a true "#1" receiver. Of course it would be great to have one of those too, but they can definitely win without one. The key, really, is QB.

I agree with your last sentence - the key really is the QB. I don't look at WR in vacuum. What I see is a Patriots team that is going back to a 2001 offense which I don't think is a good strategy in today's NFL. The league is driven now by the QB and dynamic offenses with speed. Look at the final 4 teams the last few years and the majority of the teams are dynamic offenses led by their QB. We have the Bills and Chiefs to contend with and both can put up 30 in a blink of the eye. Of course the rule changes makes a passing offense criminally easy. I hate that we drafted a 260 pound RB as he will do nothing to help us when we are down 14-3. We need a sea change in philosophy IMO.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I hate that we drafted a 260 pound RB as he will do nothing to help us when we are down 14-3. We need a sea change in philosophy IMO.

It doesn't hurt to have a bigger back to carry the load when you are UP 14-3, since you also have a collection of smurfs to plug in when you are down 14-3 (or even 28-3). Why construct a roster where skills are duplicated, when you are a game plan team, meaning your approach differs greatly week by week, adjusting to attack weaknesses in the opponent?

 

[Sicilian]

I agree with your last sentence - the key really is the QB. I don't look at WR in vacuum. What I see is a Patriots team that is going back to a 2001 offense which I don't think is a good strategy in today's NFL. The league is driven now by the QB and dynamic offenses with speed. Look at the final 4 teams the last few years and the majority of the teams are dynamic offenses led by their QB. We have the Bills and Chiefs to contend with and both can put up 30 in a blink of the eye. Of course the rule changes makes a passing offense criminally easy. I hate that we drafted a 260 pound RB as he will do nothing to help us when we are down 14-3. We need a sea change in philosophy IMO.

Stevenson is anywhere from 231 to 246 depending on where you look. For comparison, Derrick Henry is 238. There's 100% a place in this league for big running backs, especially when you're taking them in the 4th round.

 

[IllegalContact]

Biggest moron in Cleveland responding.

dude's got some rough patches, but you're the biggest moron anywhere

 

[amfootball]

It doesn't hurt to have a bigger back to carry the load when you are UP 14-3, since you also have a collection of smurfs to plug in when you are down 14-3 (or even 28-3). Why construct a roster where skills are duplicated, when you are a game plan team, meaning your approach differs greatly week by week, adjusting to attack weaknesses in the opponent?

Our roster is not dynamic at all. We are going to be a TE/RB heavy team with play action. We can win games with that for sure but against the good teams we will struggle mightily. We will not be up 14-3 on them, we will be down 2 scores. It is unbelievably difficult to play defense in this league with the rules that favor the passing game on top of dynamic offenses and QBs like the Bills, Chiefs, Browns, etc. Our margin is ridiculously small to compete. That being said, I am hopeful that this approach is just for now while Jones is learning and we become more dynamic as he matures like the Bills have with Josh Allen. That has to be the progression for us to compete in the AFC going forward IMO.

 

[luuked]

I don't get the obsession with that mystical WR1.

Given how we spent on offense in FA it seems pretty likely that we will run the majority of snaps out of 2 TE sets and most likely 12 personnel. And while the WR room lacks a superstar it is well balanced with players that cover all kinds of roles.

What exactly is the value of either investing valuable (early) draft picks or a substantial amount of cap space into a player that will be a decoy the vast majority of times ?

 

[DW Toys]

Isn't Anthony Miller mostly a slot WR rather than an outside guy?

Cousin,
He is 5'11" and 204 lbs. A little big for slot but with Robinson as your #1 guy in Chicago, he wound up there. He was not a slot guy at Memphis. Might be a reason the Bears will trade him. Might have been the wrong position they put him in.. Not an ankle breaker. Ran a 4.46 so a 4.5 guy in the slot in today's offenses is unusual although Jacoby Meyers was a 4.6 guy and slightly taller at 6'2"
This kid is the same size as Jarvis Landry and OBJ both outside guys.
Honestly, he might be our best WR if we could get him.. You look at his tape and he seems to get open.
DW Toys

 

[Bruins29]

Is it possible that the the roster now will not be the exact roster that the Pats field game one of RS? They do have 11.5 mil in cap space and could free up more with a couple of moves. It's not like BB has moved players around and around, made trades to improve the team or grabbed FAs if he felt they could help.

SHUT THE FUK UP ALREADY

 

[Wozzy]

Fan obsession with “weapons” can only be attributed to fantasy football.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

draft Keenan Allen instead of Aaron Dobson or AJ Brown instead of NKeal Harry

problem solved!

 

[WaterfallJumper]

draft Keenan Allen instead of Aaron Dobson or AJ Brown instead of NKeal Harry

problem solved!

Oh, thanks for the solution. Let me go fire up my time machine.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Oh, thanks for the solution. Let me go fire up my time machine.

This guy can help.