DRAFT Mac Jones

[zydecochris]

Obviously none of us know.

In order to maximize their potential every QB needs a solid supporting cast or receivers, blockers and quality coaching. They also need a defense that can make some stops every now and then. AR, Mahomes and Lawrence is no different.

I don't think Jones has Mahomes' talent or that something TB12 has but My gut tells me Mac Jones' ceiling is somewhere between franchise player and average player.

I feel like hes going to have a Roethlisberger career without the picks and dumbass decisions.

With the right surrounding talent, coaching and health I can easily see Jones having a few Pro Bowl years here and there but not perennial ones like Brees, AR, TB12, Manning, Mahomes, etc.

Does he have the talent to carry a team just by walking on the field and is good for 4-5 wins and making the playoffs every year? My gut tells me no.

I get what you are saying, by "Roethlisberger career" you are talking about the level of success, not the style. But Mac's style is 100% opposite to Big Ben (who had lots of raw talent, was able to creatively make plays out of nothing at his peak, was not a student of the game, low character), IMHO it is more like a poor man's Tom Brady with a bit of Drew Brees, not the level of success of Brady or Brees (very unlikely), but the style. I've watched all of Mac's games, and his strengths are:

• Absolutely remarkable pocket presence and footwork (like Brady) due to an extensive tennis background (like Brees).
• Fantastic at reading college defenses and making the "right" decision, like a coach on the field. Very, very smart.
• Has had absolutely top notch coaching from Saban and Sarkisian, and very familiar with and comfortable with hard coaching.
• Hyper-competitive with a big temper that he really learned to control as a starter to become very, very poised.
• Super accurate when given time, especially with the long ball (throwing accurate long balls is really one of his strengths).
• Best in the biggest games (definitely one similarity to Brady and Brees in college).
• Fantastic leader and his team mates adored him.

His uncertain areas or limitations are:

• Absolutely not a running or scrambling QB, he will take the sack or throw the ball away instead.
• Although he almost always makes the "right" coach's decision and rarely made mistakes or turnovers, he isn't someone that creatively makes something out of nothing like many top modern quarterbacks (e.g., Murray, Jackson, Watson, Mayfield, and of course Mahomes),
• He has always played with a superior offensive line and absolutely amazing receivers, how will he do if that is not the case?
• Not an amazing athlete apart from his hand-eye coordination and footwork. Can he improve his athleticism like Brady did?
• Apart from holding off a 5 star top rated QB recruit that everyone thought would take his job, he hasn't experienced much adversity. How would he handle adversity?
• Although reading college defenses was a strength, can he take the next step to be a QB savant? I won't say "like Brady" because there will never be a QB with the football intelligence of Brady again IMHO.
• Can he learn to whip out the ball when protection is breaking down like Brady, Brees, or Manning? To be determined.

So, who knows if he has what it takes (50% of all first round QBs wash out), but he really is a perfect fit for the Patriots IMHO, I'm excited.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I get what you are saying, by "Roethlisberger career" you are talking about the level of success, not the style. But Mac's style is 100% opposite to Big Ben (who had lots of raw talent, was able to creatively make plays out of nothing at his peak, was not a student of the game, low character), IMHO it is more like a poor man's Tom Brady with a bit of Drew Brees, not the level of success of Brady or Brees (very unlikely), but the style. I've watched all of Mac's games, and his strengths are:

• Absolutely remarkable pocket presence and footwork (like Brady) due to an extensive tennis background (like Brees).
• Fantastic at reading college defenses and making the "right" decision, like a coach on the field. Very, very smart.
• Has had absolutely top notch coaching from Saban and Sarkisian, and very familiar with and comfortable with hard coaching.
• Hyper-competitive with a big temper that he really learned to control as a starter to become very, very poised.
• Super accurate when given time, especially with the long ball (throwing accurate long balls is really one of his strengths).
• Best in the biggest games (definitely one similarity to Brady and Brees in college).
• Fantastic leader and his team mates adored him.

His uncertain areas or limitations are:

• Absolutely not a running or scrambling QB, he will take the sack or throw the ball away instead.
• Although he almost always makes the "right" coach's decision and rarely made mistakes or turnovers, he isn't someone that creatively makes something out of nothing like many top modern quarterbacks (e.g., Murray, Jackson, Watson, Mayfield, and of course Mahomes),
• He has always played with a superior offensive line and absolutely amazing receivers, how will he do if that is not the case?
• Not an amazing athlete apart from his hand-eye coordination and footwork. Can he improve his athleticism like Brady did?
• Apart from holding off a 5 star top rated QB recruit that everyone thought would take his job, he hasn't experienced much adversity. How would he handle adversity?
• Although reading college defenses was a strength, can he take the next step to be a QB savant? I won't say "like Brady" because there will never be a QB with the football intelligence of Brady again IMHO.
• Can he learn to whip out the ball when protection is breaking down like Brady, Brees, or Manning? To be determined.

So, who knows if he has what it takes (50% of all first round QBs wash out), but he really is a perfect fit for the Patriots IMHO, I'm excited.

Agree completely. I pulled Roeth out of my butt as a comparison for ProBowls, stats (pretty much 4k yds and 25-30tds a year) and he needs playmakers to be REALLY good.

Not even close to the same player.

Maybe he is a Kirk Cousins type?

 

[moosekill]

I like Jones but am pretty bummed that the Brady offense will continue. I was really hoping we would take a more dynamic QB so we could run a more dynamic offense to compete with the Bills and Chiefs but it appears this is our offense for as long as Bill is here.

Yes those Brady teams never won anything. This wins stupid post of the day award!

 

[reflexblue]

Normally i pay attention in the months leading up to the draft to get an idea of who the players are. This year i didn't, so i really didn't know much about Jones. While reading up on him i found that opinions about him were split 50/50. Some rated him as a fourth rnd prospect. But i finally ran across a scouting report going over stregnth's and weakness's After reading them i was a little surprised this sight had him rated as an average QB. But nowadays teams are looking Mahomes quality's. So his weaknesses are he doesn't run and he has an average arm, so didn't brady when he was drafted.
After reading jones positives and neg the pick is ok with me.

​

​

Strengths:​

• Intelligent
• Accurate passer
• Pocket composure
• Good decision maker
• Ball placement
• Throws a very catchable ball
• Good timing
• Shows anticipation
• Quality field vision
• Able to loft in touch passes
• Natural feel; instinctive passer
• Leads receivers for more yardage after the catch
• Moves eyes through progressions
• Good internal clock
• Mastered his offense
• Intangibles
• Hard worker
• Good character
• Good fit in a west coast offense
• Has had success against good competition

​

​

​

​

Weaknesses:​

• Quality arm strength, but not elite
• Not a running threat
• Enough size but not especially big
• Limited experience; 1-year wonder
• Might only be a game manager in the NFL

​

 

[RobertWeathers]

Normally i pay attention in the months leading up to the draft to get an idea of who the players are. This year i didn't, so i really didn't know much about Jones. While reading up on him i found that opinions about him were split 50/50. Some rated him as a fourth rnd prospect. But i finally ran across a scouting report going over stregnth's and weakness's After reading them i was a little surprised this sight had him rated as an average QB. But nowadays teams are looking Mahomes quality's. So his weaknesses are he doesn't run and he has an average arm, so didn't brady when he was drafted.
After reading jones positives the pick is ok with me.

​

​

Strengths:​

• Intelligent
• Accurate passer
• Pocket composure
• Good decision maker
• Ball placement
• Throws a very catchable ball
• Good timing
• Shows anticipation
• Quality field vision
• Able to loft in touch passes
• Natural feel; instinctive passer
• Leads receivers for more yardage after the catch
• Moves eyes through progressions
• Good internal clock
• Mastered his offense
• Intangibles
• Hard worker
• Good character
• Good fit in a west coast offense
• Has had success against good competition

​

​

​

​

Weaknesses:​

• Quality arm strength, but not elite
• Not a running threat
• Enough size but not especially big
• Limited experience; 1-year wonder
• Might only be a game manager in the NFL

​

There is absolutely nothing to complain about with this pick. He wasn't a reach. Hes a solid, but not elite talent with a 1st round grade. The player's strengths map perfectly with the organization and system's needs.

I couldn't be happier

 

[zydecochris]

Agree completely. I pulled Roeth out of my butt as a comparison for ProBowls, stats (pretty much 4k yds and 25-30tds a year) and he needs playmakers to be REALLY good.

Not even close to the same player.

Maybe he is a Kirk Cousins type?

Yes, I thought you had an excellent analogy in Big Ben for the level of "hoped for success", as opposed to a GOAT like Brady or Near GOAT (NGOAT, I just made it up) like Brees. Let's hope he will be better than Kirk Cousins, but we'll have to see. Certainly I think he is someone that will take well to hard coaching by BB and Josh, and he definitely is super smart, both on and off the field. If he washes out for some reason (like not handling defensive pressure well, he didn't have much of that in college) between his on and off the field football intelligence and coaching he has received (Saban, Sarkisian, and now BB and Josh) if nothing else he will be an excellent coaching candidate in the future.

 

[sean10mm]

More than anything I feel like QB draft talk is just full of meaningless catchphrases and general nonsense.

I have no idea if Mac Jones will be a star or a comprehensive failure. Nobody does. QB scouting is the sketchiest "expertise" in professional sports.

But QB talk in general just feels so self-contradictory I can't take it seriously.

Like Jones goes to a big program so he's dinged for having too good a supporting cast. But then you go to a small school and get dinged for the level of competition, so that entire line of thinking is just white noise unless the guy played for a community college or something.

People talk about Jones being in an ideal situation. Fair enough. But if he was an elite prospect in an ideal situation, what would you expect to happen? The answer is you would expect them to DOMINATE. A mediocrity in a great position is just along for the ride, you can inflate their production to a point, but to use an NFL parallel there was no point where Trent Dilfer looked like Kurt Warner.

So what does Mac Jones do? He dominates. He was the most efficient passer in the entire NCAA while also having some of the highest raw production as well, he won every game, he crushed it in the national championship. He did everything you would expect from an elite player if you gave them all the toys.

He didn't look like Greg McElroy out there, that's what a mediocre prospect along for the ride on an elite Alabama team looks like. 14-0, BCS Championship, and (rightly) nobody cared about him particularly.

Does this guarantee he's an elite prospect? Of course not. But it's actual EVIDENCE and not a catchphrase like "high ceiling" with no discernible connection to future NFL success.

 

[50-yard-line]

Because despite our better judgement, people are seduced by athleticism rather than what's important, can he play?

True, but kind of funny that people who just watched (in awe) Tom F***ing Brady for the last 20 years care at all about what a QB looks like without his shirt on.

 

[amfootball]

True, but kind of funny that people who just watched (in awe) Tom F***ing Brady for the last 20 years care at all about what a QB looks like without his shirt on.

I think because most of us realize that Brady is a unicorn. He is never happening again. I would much rather have the more athletic QB in today's NFL. Not that I don't want the cerebral too but no one is at Brady's level so best to have the athleticism to fall back on.

 

[50-yard-line]

Maybe he's Brady-lite, maybe he's JImmy G (without the injuries, I hope). Even if it's the latter - and Jones has a lot more going for him coming out of college...top-tier, biggest stage...insane completion/TD/Int stats - he's about $80 million in extra CAP space for the Pats over the next 4 years.

Doesn't anyone think he can't be as good as Garoppolo?

 

[50-yard-line]

I think because most of us realize that Brady is a unicorn. He is never happening again. I would much rather have the more athletic QB in today's NFL. Not that I don't want the cerebral too but no one is at Brady's level so best to have the athleticism to fall back on.

Given the uptick in speedy killers at LB and FS, I'd rather have RBs run and WRs catch, and given the speed of edge rushers now, I'd rather have quick processing and get the ball out.

A twenty yard QB run looks shiny. A twenty yard completion looks mundane. They're both 20 yards.

Maybe that's just me (and I wasn't even looking at the QBs coming out because I don't have an all-22), but I've always preferred the pocket passer. Guys like Cam are beat up in short order. Mahomes is UNREAL, I agree, but he's getting more nicks and bruises than I'd like if I had to keep him for a decade more. Lamar Jackson still doesn't make me want him under center compared to a good pocket guy with fast reads and accuracy.

 

[Pats2000]

He is everything you say he is.

I just don't see the WOW-factor with him on film- yet.

All of that is wow, that's exactly what you need to succeed at a high level in the NFL.

 

[sean10mm]

I think because most of us realize that Brady is a unicorn. He is never happening again. I would much rather have the more athletic QB in today's NFL. Not that I don't want the cerebral too but no one is at Brady's level so best to have the athleticism to fall back on.

Brady fell so far in 2000 in part because there was ALREADY a conviction back then that the pocket passer was a dinosaur and the next gen QB needed to be an athlete. It's actually a very old idea, there were shades of it in how Leaf was evaluated as being on par or even better than Peyton in 1998, how everyone was infatuated with Vick, Alex Smith (yes, really lol), Vince Young etc.

Notice the track record of chasing the athlete QB has largely been one of failure. There's Mahomes (who is still primarily a passer), 1 season of Lamar surprising everybody, but it hardly looks like a law of nature in 2021 anymore than it did in 2000 or whatever.

 

[RobertWeathers]

All of that is wow, that's exactly what you need to succeed at a high level in the NFL.

Hes Pat Mahomes WOW?

My point is he doesn't jump off film.

Doesn't mean he needs to.

Hell, Tom didn't.

 

[Schmo]

Not a huge college football fan, but I've watched his highlights a few times.

From what I've heard people say, his main weaknesses are:

Arm strength. He consistently threw 40-50 yard dimes to speedster wide receivers using good footwork. Meaning he makes good, quick decisions with accuracy, but he can't make the late, 60 yard overthrow off his back foot like Lance or Fields. Did his wrs give him wide open throws? Sometimes, but even then he hit them in stride. I have no doubt he could throw 60 with a crow hop. He definitely isn't as weak as Pennington was. Also, it's not necessarily a good thing to take your receivers' hands off with constant Elwayesque fastballs.

Mobility. He has to rely on pocket presence, good footwork (again), and quick decisions (again). Honestly, it's the difference between TB and Cam in the pocket. Tom stepping up and throwing, or Cam sitting there like the controller batteries ran out and taking the sack from his plain-sight side... Tom sitting down and taking the sack, or Cam rolling out and getting stripped. Maybe you'd like your qb to run 30 yards backwards in the name of "playmaking" like Mahomes (which will catch up to him as he gets older).

Played with nfl caliber talent. Is this a bad thing? He also played against nfl caliber talent, and was insanely consistent. I just don't get this every time someone says it. It's the biggest question mark for me when it comes to Lance or Wilson. He's ready to play and will demand more from his teammates. Remember a few years ago, Tom saying to his wrs, "I need you guys to be faster!"

I know I'm an optimist, but objectively, he's a high floor/high ceiling pick.

 

[Dragda]

I have a good friend who is a diehard Bama fan and says he’s much better than both Tua and McCarron. He hates the Patriots but said this is the perfect place for him to thrive. We have decent protection and great coaching but poor skill players (his words) which will play to his strengths of finding the right read when three targets aren’t open. He went on to say he would put money on him beating out Cam.

 

[reflexblue]

I get what you are saying, by "Roethlisberger career" you are talking about the level of success, not the style. But Mac's style is 100% opposite to Big Ben (who had lots of raw talent, was able to creatively make plays out of nothing at his peak, was not a student of the game, low character), IMHO it is more like a poor man's Tom Brady with a bit of Drew Brees, not the level of success of Brady or Brees (very unlikely), but the style. I've watched all of Mac's games, and his strengths are:

• Absolutely remarkable pocket presence and footwork (like Brady) due to an extensive tennis background (like Brees).
• Fantastic at reading college defenses and making the "right" decision, like a coach on the field. Very, very smart.
• Has had absolutely top notch coaching from Saban and Sarkisian, and very familiar with and comfortable with hard coaching.
• Hyper-competitive with a big temper that he really learned to control as a starter to become very, very poised.
• Super accurate when given time, especially with the long ball (throwing accurate long balls is really one of his strengths).
• Best in the biggest games (definitely one similarity to Brady and Brees in college).
• Fantastic leader and his team mates adored him.

His uncertain areas or limitations are:

• Absolutely not a running or scrambling QB, he will take the sack or throw the ball away instead.
• Although he almost always makes the "right" coach's decision and rarely made mistakes or turnovers, he isn't someone that creatively makes something out of nothing like many top modern quarterbacks (e.g., Murray, Jackson, Watson, Mayfield, and of course Mahomes),
• He has always played with a superior offensive line and absolutely amazing receivers, how will he do if that is not the case?
• Not an amazing athlete apart from his hand-eye coordination and footwork. Can he improve his athleticism like Brady did?
• Apart from holding off a 5 star top rated QB recruit that everyone thought would take his job, he hasn't experienced much adversity. How would he handle adversity?
• Although reading college defenses was a strength, can he take the next step to be a QB savant? I won't say "like Brady" because there will never be a QB with the football intelligence of Brady again IMHO.
• Can he learn to whip out the ball when protection is breaking down like Brady, Brees, or Manning? To be determined.

So, who knows if he has what it takes (50% of all first round QBs wash out), but he really is a perfect fit for the Patriots IMHO, I'm excited.

If i had known that this was posted i wouldn't have put up the walter football scouting report. The one thing that concerned me was although he has remarkable pocket presence and good footwork he doesn't move around in the pocket like brady can. It sounds like he has a hard time slipping defenders.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

If i had known that this was posted i wouldn't have put up the walter football scouting report. The one thing that concerned me was although he has remarkable pocket presence and good footwork he doesn't move around in the pocket like brady can. It sounds like he has a hard time slipping defenders.

I've seen a ton of Mac tape. He has the Brady slide, 1 or 2 steps up or to the side. This is exactly what you want in a pocket passer. Keep eyes down the field but buy seconds sliding in the pocket. This was an amazing day for Patriots Nation.

.

 

[PittPatriot]

I love how the coach did one final check of his staff on the pick.

But wow, what a cold fish on the phone with Jones. I suspect that's just because the cameras were there.
Can you imagine getting the job of your life and having your new boss come across that way when calling to offer the job? LOL.

probably for the cameras, nobody seemed really excited. He may as well asked, “do you want olives on your pizza?”

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Not sure where to put this but it shows a bit of Mac Jones' prankster personality, they made a funny spoof video. His teammates call him Joker for his laugh but also a competitive streak underneath: