Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing

[Deus Irae]

I am not that guy. I really don't care. You are overly emotional and all infatuated with Tom Brady. And it makes you hyper aggressive and seeing sleights in the smallest things. I like Tom Brady too. I think he is the GOAT. But I can still remain rational. I really have said nothing controversial at all. BB is a great coach and Tom Brady is the GOAT. So I really don't get what you are doing.

I posted a refutation of your claim. That's what I was doing. But, since you're insistent on being that guy, we're done here.

 

[Joker]

you know...in the twilight one could easily mistake Florio for Cuomo....it'd be ironic if the hitman hired to off Gubner Hugs&Kisses mistook Florio for him....I'd be really sad about that...for a millisecond

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I posted a refutation of your claim. That's what I was doing. But, since you're insistent on being that guy, we're done here.

 

[Calhoun44]

And many of those fans that hate Brady are right here on Patsfans which is real weird. They hate Brady so much that any Pats fan that doesn't is instantly painted as being a Bucs fan or not a fan of the Patriots. They've gone to the extreme measure of trying to silence anyone that dares to criticize Bill the GM for his obvious mistakes that led to a 7-9 season.

Apparently there's a loyalty oath that unless you're a part of the group think, you're not allowed an opinion. A forum where everyone thinks the same way and says the same things isn't a forum at all, it's a Stepford wives echo chamber.

Name one GM that doesn't make mistakes. Who would you rather have as a GM?

 

[Deus Irae]

Hey, I don't mind a good back and forth here, as you well know. But when I've already posted

You're not just giving BB his due. You're showing yourself to be another of the honks. The Patriots didn't win as much as they did because BB found that scrub who could take 5 snaps at LB. The Patriots won as much as they did because of the 199th pick of the 2000 NFL draft. That doesn't mean that BB is a crap coach, or even that he's not a top level all-time coach. It just means that the G.O.A.T. QB was the difference.

And anyone who saw what Brady did with the 2001, 2006, 2011, and/or 2013 teams, and even the 2019 team, should know that.

Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing


And the respondent decides to roll with

Na since you did not care to elaborate I will take that as a sign it's too much of an emotional topic for you. I mean what shall we say to appease you? BB is a trash head coach? I can't do that. The man is a very effective head coach and I think the entire NFL would would agree with that. Without a top tier QB BB is mortal. But without a reasonably talented team so is TB.

Like I said I give TB the majority of the credit for the NE accolades but BB is still a very good coach.

things are likely to go downhill after that, and that poster's probably not going to be worth engaging with for very much longer. So just add him to the pile of people who say that I'm a big meanie, and all that nonsense, and y'all can have him all to yourselves.

 

[catent]

This says it all. Basically, from the article:
"Simply put, they felt like he was declining and that they could get another QB for less money. At the end of the day, the NFL is a business and Kraft had to make the best financial decision for his team." Be careful what you wish for Krafty.

If you choose to read it that way, sure.

Someone could just as easily read it as: "the financial investment required to keep Brady would've put the team in a tight spot financially and rendered them unable to get talent around him".

 

[kennyb]

Strip bumbling bill of gm duties and cut his pay. Make him fire his sons or reduce them to ballboys. Hire Captain Stone and others here as advisors.

Make bill report to Captain Stone! No more grinding full contact practices. See what a fresh gronk looks like bill?

 

[PScottman]

I'm looking forward to the posters that disagrees with Kraft.

Looking at the bigger picture in context - this remains an organization that has had unparalleled success for a twenty year span. A lot of which can be indirectly tied to the infamous "groceries" line that led to the abrupt departure of the Tuna which begat Carroll which begat Belichick. All of which led to an owner who realized "I'll do owner things and the staff will do staff things" including the drafting.

This isn't to say that there hasn't been some draft "meddling" (Christian Peters says hello), but by and large, much like the team itself, the staff had specified roles and mostly stayed within them. Moreover there have definitively been draft "dry spells" across that twenty year span, which having the GOAT, good coaching and system, solid middle class free agency and UDFA hits helped to minimize. In most cases those dry spells were not JUST the Patriots but simply classes of drafts that weren't all that deep league wide. In other cases, it was indeed just poor drafting.

So the bottom line is: is this merely a motivational line by an owner - in his "role" as the owner - prompting the staff to re-examine their draft philosophy or is it intent to actually break out of the owner role and impose himself into the drafting process? I'm hopeful of the former because I'm not sure there is another Belichick in the wings should he similarly feel too overshadowed by ownership in his role as GM and coach much like Parcells did all those years ago.

 

[PScottman]

That's why they went out and spent big in FA.

Dugger graded poorly in coverage according to PFF and is allergic to making a play.

Uche and Jennings didn't show much or else Judon wouldn't have gotten big bucks.

Your understanding of team dynamics and how all players influence the others in their ability to perform is...interesting.

You expect every player to be a five tool superstar or they are a bust. It doesn't work that way. Great teams rely on several two and three tool role players to maximize those few five tool stars each team has. Most teams are starting probably 15-18 role players for every "star" including the ones that won multiple Patriots Super Bowls.

Free agency didn't REPLACE all those players you named - it added to them. You're an ends of the spectrum guy "Awesome - Sucks" - there is no in-between, no middle class, and no role players contributing.

If Judon is the five tool star the paperwork and past performance says don't you think that makes those other players "show much" when he's the one game planned for and they can just play? You also myopically discount rotation, situation, and injury all critical factors in building an entire team. A third and long with High, Judon, Wino and Uche all on the field isn't concerning to an opposing offensive line?

I'm not saying they're all superstars, but they're definitively not Jordan Richards either. As was said earlier, a couple starters per draft is good expectation management and they don't have to be super starters either. I'd take a Lawrence Guy type starter every draft if every second or third year the team hit on a five-tool star somewhere in the draft or free agency process. I don't get the same vibe from you - it's all or nuthin' I think from your perspective.

 

[PScottman]

I don't think there is a debate as to Harris > Sony as a pure runner at the NFL level. If one is looking at accomplishments (2018 playoffs) and production over 3 years compared to Chubb and Barkley (not saying he is equal) he absolutely is not a bust.

I'll go back to roles again here as in both college and now in action last year behind Harris - Sony seemed "looser" in a lot of ways - maybe that's his comfort zone to be the change of pace guy, not the bruiser, 1st and 2d down guy. He was the same as a rookie when teams couldn't load up the box on him because the aerial offense had to be respected even with the two TE look. Looser, freer, just playing instead of thinking and worrying that one wrong act would get him on the bench.

I know I'll get slammed "BUT BUT 1st round pick even at #32 must be ALL-PRO or no good drafting!!!!!" but I try not to look at picks singular but instead team building mural across the multiple methods of bringing in players whether draft, UDFA, free agency, practice squad poaching or whatever.

Confidence - especially confidence in a specific role - HUGE for every player in this league. With significant impact on how they play.

 

[PScottman]

Whether he can replace Chung depends on whether he can cover tight ends

Wasn't' there a guy that was great against the run and when he came out of college couldn't cover for beans; ended up going somewhere else...terrible should've never been drafted right?

(wait, that guy was one Patrick Chung - still think we should've just cut bait and never brought back the S that could only excel in run support as a young player?)

The patience and understand of player growth arc round here - literally amazing.

 

[moosekill]

In all fairness this will be a topic of the ages.....like in 20 years time people will still be discussing this exact thing. So I mean I guess...get used to it?

No, it means we have already discussed this ad nauseum and don't need to discuss it again in a thread that is not about that. You are either new here or an alt of another member. Keep topics on topic or mods will remove the posts at first and banish you to the hinter lands if you keep doing it.

 

[moosekill]

I thought Sony looked awesome at first and then got injured two seasons ago. Coming back, he had a couple amazing games last year, but it still seemed to me he was missing that last bit of break away speed he had as a rookie, and in college. Hopefully, that will come back, if stories of knee woes are true, perhaps it won't.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

I thought Sony looked awesome at first and then got injured two seasons ago. Coming back, he had a couple amazing games last year, but it still seemed to me he was missing that last bit of break away speed he had as a rookie, and in college. Hopefully, that will come back, if stories of knee woes are true, perhaps it won't.

Ya never know with RB's. That's why you don't make huge investments. That's why so many RB's with heavy college use have problems.

Likewise, many late round guys like Terrell Davis can come in with impact. They were not used much in college and are fresh.

Trent Richardson went from beast to least in one year.

 

[moosekill]

Ya never know with RB's. That's why you don't make huge investments. That's why so many RB's with heavy college use have problems.

Likewise, many late round guys like Terrell Davis can come in with impact. They were not used much in college and are fresh.

Trent Richardson went from beast to least in one year.

Yes, that is why the league seems to be going to the patriots way of running back by committee.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Hey, I don't mind a good back and forth here, as you well know. But when I've already posted



Kraft acknowledges drafting woes, says approach is changing


And the respondent decides to roll with



things are likely to go downhill after that, and that poster's probably not going to be worth engaging with for very much longer. So just add him to the pile of people who say that I'm a big meanie, and all that nonsense, and y'all can have him all to yourselves.

I was just having fun w how silly it all gets, and always gets, without being on a "side." I think you know from around here that I think - and more than that, hope - that BB would end up being critical to the success. That would mean some hope for some kind of residual magic. Kraft's recent comments actually are really concerning for a "residual magic" mindset, pointing more toward the non-magical thinking reality of "oh oh, the Pats are just another bozo on the bus" unless they go out and find a way to earn it again.

Last season was really difficult to take as representative, all the way around, although for Brady the results were pretty much the high side of a coin flip, his career average for making the Super Bowl. Factor in that he won it, it's top 1/3 of his career.

So I wouldn't call last season the decider of all things Brady v BB but it sure does put the fear of God into ya, given where the respective factors currently call home.

 

[venecol]

Name one GM that doesn't make mistakes. Who would you rather have as a GM?

Then why such disdain (not you) for folks pointing out his mistakes?

Look, the Brady vs Belichick discussion will go on for years, even after they both retire. NFLN will make a documentary about it. It's truly odd that everyone in the Country wants to talk about it except for the football forum where they have been the main topic for 20 years.

Why do you think that is?

 

[venecol]

If you choose to read it that way, sure.

Someone could just as easily read it as: "the financial investment required to keep Brady would've put the team in a tight spot financially and rendered them unable to get talent around him".

I literally quoted what was said in the article, not what I said. But sure, you can always come up with whatever interpretation you want. I mean there are guys here trying to say that Kraft didn't really mean what he said about the poor draft results, but what they think he meant. Lol

 

[Bill Lee]

....or dating co-eds.

I think Early Bird is now dating a doctor of some sort. Seemed like an upscale, classy lady

Hope she doesn't have weak wrist muscles...

If you look at the greatest coaches in NFL history, once they lost their HoF qb they became mediocre or ok but never won SBs w/o them.

BB will most likely fall in that category and there is no shame in it.

Yes, and Joe Montana is not Joe Montana without Bill Walsh's system he developed in CIN.

This says it all. Basically, from the article:
"Simply put, they felt like he was declining and that they could get another QB for less money. At the end of the day, the NFL is a business and Kraft had to make the best financial decision for his team." Be careful what you wish for Krafty.

Fine, as long as we're all clear that this is Giardi's interpretation rather than Kraft's words.

Who knows what would have happened if he stayed, look at what happened the end of his last season are ambiguous.

Kraft didn't say TB was declining, and it's obvious the team had overall talent and cap issues, and there was that whole Alex G / Johnny F'ing Foxboro thing looming.

Giardi chose to translate this as the issue was TB12 was in decline (which Kraft did not say) rather than the other issues (he did mention financial issues).

 

[venecol]

Strip bumbling bill of gm duties and cut his pay. Make him fire his sons or reduce them to ballboys. Hire Captain Stone and others here as advisors.

Make bill report to Captain Stone! No more grinding full contact practices. See what a fresh gronk looks like bill?

I think that if you look around the league, there's a whole slew of young, smart GMs coming into the league.

So, I agree. Sometimes it's just time to move on. Bill may be getting too old to coach and also be the GM. Somebody said that it's better to cut someone a year too early than a year late. Kinda what they did with Brady, because he was too old.