OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Deus Irae]

I don't subscribe to the Athletic. But, if you do, here's an article for you on how to keep the band together. According to Greg Auman, it would produce

five possible moves, $35 million in new cap space:

A Tom Brady extension and 4 other Bucs moves to keep Super Bowl roster intact

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[Zarozzor]

Man I wish these stats were mainstream.

Have you ever noticed how when fans talk about the greatest offense, they’ll always say GSOT or 2013 Denver? They can also never say an exact year from 1999-2001, so they default to GSOT. I’ll use the 2000 Rams below, since they had the best offense of the 1999-2001 teams.

2000 Rams
27.0% DVOA
38.67 Yards Per Drive
2.84 Points Per Drive
.350 Touchdowns Per Drive
.765 Drive Success Rate
48.3 Scoring %

2007 Patriots
44.1% DVOA
41.63 Yards Per Drive
3.37 Points Per Drive
.424 Touchdowns Per Drive
.812 Drive Success Rate
55.7 Scoring %

2013 Broncos
34.2% DVOA
38.22 Yards Per Drive
2.97 Points Per Drive
.370 Touchdowns Per Drive
.782 Drive Success Rate
50.0 Scoring %

I kind of want to make a thread comparing the best offenses ever in the Tom Brady forum. It’s a shame PPD only goes back to 1993.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Have you ever noticed how when fans talk about the greatest offense, they’ll always say GSOT or 2013 Denver? They can also never say an exact year from 1999-2001, so they default to GSOT. I’ll use the 2000 Rams below, since they had the best offense of the 1999-2001 teams.

2000 Rams
38.67 Yards Per Drive
2.84 Points Per Drive
.350 Touchdowns Per Drive
.765 Drive Success Rate
48.3 Scoring %

2007 Patriots
41.63 Yards Per Drive
3.37 Points Per Drive
.424 Touchdowns Per Drive
.812 Drive Success Rate
55.7 Scoring %

2013 Broncos
38.22 Yards Per Drive
2.97 Points Per Drive
.370 Touchdowns Per Drive
.782 Drive Success Rate
50.0 Scoring %

I kind of want to make a thread comparing the best offenses ever in the Tom Brady forum. It’s a shame PPD only goes back to 1993.

07 team was severely flawed. Basically Moss was unreal plus Brady. Very weak at RB and other positions. Basically would put at least 6 Patriot teams higher than this team. Not worth arguing how good it was as it didn't get the job done.

 

[carmelo15]

I don't subscribe to the Athletic. But, if you do, here's an article for you on how to keep the band together. According to Greg Auman, it would produce




A Tom Brady extension and 4 other Bucs moves to keep Super Bowl roster intact

So with those plus the 13.5 mill would be 48 million in space take what 5 million out for draft picks.

David has to be brought back he’s the number one priority his market value is 12.7 let’s say he accepts 12.5. Now give AB/Gronk 3 and 4 million respectively and Succop 3.5 million you’d be left with 20 million to split with Godwin/Barrett if Godwin is raged that’s 4 million left and you’d not be able to get a capable pass rusher and this would be with Suh leaving unless he’s playing for half of what he got last year.

They should look to replace Barrett with Carl Lawson his market value is 8.8 million or Leanord Floyd is market value is 13.5 million.

 

[Deus Irae]

07 team was severely flawed. Basically Moss was unreal plus Brady. Very weak at RB and other positions. Basically would put at least 6 Patriot teams higher than this team. Not worth arguing how good it was as it didn't get the job done.

You say that it's not worth arguing, yet you still try pushing ludicrous arguments...

 

[Deus Irae]

So with those plus the 13.5 mill would be 48 million in space take what 5 million out for draft picks.

David has to be brought back he’s the number one priority his market value is 12.7 let’s say he accepts 12.5. Now give AB/Gronk 3 and 4 million respectively and Succop 3.5 million you’d be left with 20 million to split with Godwin/Barrett if Godwin is raged that’s 4 million left and you’d not be able to get a capable pass rusher and this would be with Suh leaving unless he’s playing for half of what he got last year.

They should look to replace Barrett with Carl Lawson his market value is 8.8 million or Leanord Floyd is market value is 13.5 million.

Why would David's cap number be that high in year one?

 

[jal]

I love how even with the NFL’s attempt to neuter defenses over the last decade, no team has beaten their efficiency.

Top 10 All-Time Offensive DVOA
1. 2007 Patriots - 44.1%
2. 2010 Patriots - 42.8%
3. 2002 Chiefs - 35.4%
4. 2018 Chiefs - 35.4%
5. 1998 Broncos - 35.0%
6. 1992 49ers - 34.5%
7. 1984 Dolphins - 34.4%
8. 2011 Packers - 34.2%
9. 2013 Broncos - 34.2%
10. 2003 Chiefs - 33.9%

Top 10 All-Time Points Per Drive
1. 2007 Patriots - 3.37
2. 2018 Chiefs - 3.25
3. 2020 Packers - 3.22
4. 2018 Saints - 3.21
5. 2019 Ravens - 3.08
6. 2011 Packers - 3.05
7. 2016 Falcons - 3.04
8. 2011 Saints - 2.98
9. 2020 Titans - 2.98
10. 2020 Bills - 2.98

Top 10 All-Time Drive Success Rate
1. 2007 Patriots - .812
2. 2020 Packers - .801
3. 2018 Chiefs - .798
4. 2018 Saints - .797
5. 2020 Chiefs - .796
6. 2019 Ravens - .794
7. 2020 Bills - .794
8. 2020 Titans - .792
9. 2011 Saints - .788
10. 2012 Patriots- .787

Top 10 All-Time Touchdowns Per Drive
1. 2007 Patriots - .424
2. 2020 Packers - .418
3. 2018 Chiefs - .405
4. 2018 Saints - .381
5. 2011 Packers - .375
6. 2020 Titans - .375
7. 2013 Broncos - .370
8. 2004 Colts - .367
9. 2019 Ravens - .367
10. 2011 Saints - .356

To be fair, DVOA is supposed to be relative to average for the year/era so easier rules don’t necessarily benefit newer teams in DVOA.

 

[Zarozzor]

07 team was severely flawed. Basically Moss was unreal plus Brady. Very weak at RB and other positions. Basically would put at least 6 Patriot teams higher than this team. Not worth arguing how good it was as it didn't get the job done.

I don’t see how it was the Brady+Moss show.

The rushing offense was ranked #2 in the NFL and was getting a good Y/A.

Laurence Maroney - 4.5 Y/A
Sammy Morris - 4.5 Y/A (6 games)
Kevin Faulk - 4.3 Y/A

Then in the passing game you had

Wes Welker - 112 Catches, 8 TD
Donte Stallworth - 46 Catches, 3 TD
Ben Watson - 36 Catches, 6 TD
Jabar Gaffney - 36 Catches, 5 TD

Not counting Moss and Welker, the 3-5 options had 118 catches and 14 TD.

The offense was pretty much perfectly constructed

A good offensive line (until the Super Bowl)
Solid run game (Maroney/Morris/Faulk)
Receiving Back (Faulk)
Greatest deep threat in NFL history (Moss)
Greatest slot receiver in NFL history (Welker)
Possession receiver who could also occasionally go deep (Gaffney)
Speedy YAC receiver (Stallworth)
Good receiving Tight End (Watson)

2 bad games by the offense all season (Week 15 Jets rain game, and the Super Bowl where once Neal went down with Brady’s bad ankle, it was trouble) shouldn’t take away just how dominant the offense was.

 

[Zarozzor]

To be fair, DVOA is supposed to be relative to average for the year/era so easier rules don’t necessarily benefit newer teams in DVOA.

For sure. I just like throwing it in because of the huge gap

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I don’t see how it was the Brady+Moss show.

The rushing offense was ranked #2 in the NFL and was getting a good Y/A.

Laurence Maroney - 4.5 Y/A
Sammy Morris - 4.5 Y/A (6 games)
Kevin Faulk - 4.3 Y/A

Then in the passing game you had

Wes Welker - 112 Catches, 8 TD
Donte Stallworth - 46 Catches, 3 TD
Ben Watson - 36 Catches, 6 TD
Jabar Gaffney - 36 Catches, 5 TD

Not counting Moss and Welker, the 3-5 options had 118 catches and 14 TD.

The offense was pretty much perfectly constructed

A good offensive line (until the Super Bowl)
Solid run game (Maroney/Morris/Faulk)
Receiving Back (Faulk)
Greatest deep threat in NFL history (Moss)
Greatest slot receiver in NFL history (Welker)
Possession receiver who could also occasionally go deep (Gaffney)
Speedy YAC receiver (Stallworth)
Good receiving Tight End (Watson)

2 bad games by the offense all season (Week 15 Jets rain game, and the Super Bowl where once Neal went down with Brady’s bad ankle, it was trouble) shouldn’t take away just how dominant the offense was.

It really is a waste of time, especially for a franchise with 6 rings, to argue with other fan bases about how good a non-champion 07 offense was. The Rams 2001 offense was great too and nobody cares.

.

 

[Zarozzor]

Tom Brady & the '07 Patriots Light Up Miami with 5 TD's IN THE FIRST HALF | NFL Highlights - YouTube

Just listen to the announcers fanboying all over Brady and the offense. I've never heard any announcer do this before or after.

There are two games that come to mind when I think of that offense that left me sitting there watching just shaking my head.

2007 vs Washington
1st Drive - 14 Plays, 90 Yards, Touchdown, 7:16 Time of Possession
2nd Drive - 5 Plays, 15 Yards, Punt, 2:12 Time of Possession
3rd Drive - 9 Plays, 67 Yards, Touchdown, 5:09 Time of Possession
4th Drive - 4 Plays, 3 Yards, Field Goal, 0:57 Time of Possession
5th Drive - 1 Play, 0 Yards, Fumble, 0:08 Time of Possession
6th Drive - 8 Plays, 73 Yards, Touchdown, 1:32 Time of Possession
7th Drive - 13 Plays, 85 Yards, Touchdown, 7:46 Time of Possession
8th Drive - 14 Plays, 88 Yards, Touchdown, 7:56 Time of Possession
9th Drive - 6 Plays, 45 Yards, Touchdown, 2:37 Time of Possession
10th Drive - 3 Plays, -9 Yards, Punt, 1:54 Time of Possession
11th Drive - 1 Play, -1 Yards, End of Game, 0:22 Time of Possession

2007 vs Buffalo
1st Drive - 2 Plays, 13 Yards, Touchdown, 0:34 Time of Possession
2nd Drive - 6 Plays, 63 Yards, Touchdown, 2:18 Time of Possession
3rd Drive - 8 Plays, 72 Yards, Touchdown, 3:45 Time of Possession
4th Drive - 10 Plays, 84 Yards, Touchdown, 6:12 Time of Possession
5th Drive - 12 Plays, 72 Yards, Touchdown, 2:39 Time of Possession
6th Drive - 12 Plays, 73 Yards, Touchdown, 6:11 Time of Possession
7th Drive - 10 Plays, 75 Yards, Touchdown, 6:07 Time of Possession
8th Drive - 10 Plays, 41 Yards, Punt, 7:08 Time of Possession



They didn’t try to score as fast as possible every single drive like 1999-2001 St. Louis, 2013 Denver, or 2018 Kansas City. Sure, they had some deep shots and fast scores, but they moved the ball efficiently, and chewed clock to rest the defense.

They had the fewest amount of drives in the league, and the most touchdowns.

 

[Zarozzor]

It really is a waste of time, especially for a franchise with 6 rings, to argue with other fan bases about how good a non-champion 07 offense was. The Rams 2001 offense was great too and nobody cares.

.

You’re probably right, and it is. I’ve just got extra time and nothing else to do right now, so what the hell.

The dynasty won 6, but when it comes to fans of other teams that I talk to, or see post, they always mention one team, and that’s the 2007 Patriots. I’ve watched a few greatest teams of all time videos and read comments, and whether or not they’re listed among the 10 or as an honorable mention, I always hear the same thing - the 2007 Patriots were the best and scariest team I ever watched, Super Bowl be damned.

It was a horrible ending, but I’ve never seen a better team, or had more fun watching a team in my life that season.

 

[gobesmug]

07 team was severely flawed. Basically Moss was unreal plus Brady. Very weak at RB and other positions. Basically would put at least 6 Patriot teams higher than this team. Not worth arguing how good it was as it didn't get the job done.

Yeah it didn't get the job done due to injuries.

Lost Roosevelt Colvin which caused AD to play more OLB and forced to Seau and Teddy to play more reps which caused them to not be as a fresh, and biggest thing is it allowed Pierre Woods on the field in the Superbowl.

Also, Brady was playing on a nasty high ankle sprain that he suffered during AFC championship game.

During the first half of the Superbowl they lost both Kevin Faulk which killed Brady's signature outlet pass out of the backfield and Stephen Neal which allowed the Giants to abuse the right side of the Oline.

 

[gobesmug]

It really is a waste of time, especially for a franchise with 6 rings, to argue with other fan bases about how good a non-champion 07 offense was. The Rams 2001 offense was great too and nobody cares.

.

By that logic the 2021 Bucs is greater than any of those teams because they demolished the Chiefs in the Superbowl, where the Pats had to have winning drives in the 4th qtr.

The Patriots never won a superbowl by more than 9 points. There best win was against a puking Donovan Mcnabb with a Broken Leg TO

 

[Kontradiction]

By that logic the 2021 Bucs is greater than any of those teams because they demolished the Chiefs in the Superbowl, where the Pats had to have winning drives in the 4th qtr.

The Patriots never won a superbowl by more than 9 points. There best win was against a puking Donovan Mcnabb with a Broken Leg TO

???



13 - 3 = 10

By the way, there’s something I’ve always wondered about your username. Is it Gobe Smug or Gobe’s Mug or Go Be Smug? Honest question.

 

[gobesmug]

???

View attachment 30776

13 - 3 = 10

By the way, there’s something I’ve always wondered about your username. Is it Gobe Smug or Gobe’s Mug or Go Be Smug? Honest question.

I forgot about that one . I wasn't being sincere in evaluation, just pointing out the flaw in his logic. That 07 team was incredible. Not winning the Superbowl due to injuries and fluke catch takes nothing away from it.

To answer your question it's "go be smug". It was an old AIM name and I typically just use it by default instead of adding a # to the end of a username or spending time thinking of something original only to find it's already taken.

I typically Capitalize it GoBeSmug to make it easier. Just forgot to do that here.

 

[sb1]

By that logic the 2021 Bucs is greater than any of those teams because they demolished the Chiefs in the Superbowl, where the Pats had to have winning drives in the 4th qtr.

The Patriots never won a superbowl by more than 9 points. There best win was against a puking Donovan Mcnabb with a Broken Leg TO

Pats beat the Rams by 10 in their last one but one thing those two games had in common was that I never really felt the Pats were in danger of losing either one. Even in a 3-3 game. Was nice to see Brady finally get a dominating win on the scoreboard though.

 

[Nehalem]

I love how even with the NFL’s attempt to neuter defenses over the last decade, no team has beaten their efficiency.

Top 10 All-Time Offensive DVOA
1. 2007 Patriots - 44.1%
2. 2010 Patriots - 42.8%
3. 2002 Chiefs - 35.4%
4. 2018 Chiefs - 35.4%
5. 1998 Broncos - 35.0%
6. 1992 49ers - 34.5%
7. 1984 Dolphins - 34.4%
8. 2011 Packers - 34.2%
9. 2013 Broncos - 34.2%
10. 2003 Chiefs - 33.9%

Honestly the 2010 Patriots look more amazing if you think about it.

How does an offense that consists of a gimpy Wes Welker, a mid-season WR acquisition that never had 1000 yards in a season, 2 rookie TEs, and Ben-Jarvus Green Ellis completely blow away every offense in history(save 2007 Patriots)?

 

[Zarozzor]

Honestly the 2010 Patriots look more amazing if you think about it.

How does an offense that consists of a gimpy Wes Welker, a mid-season WR acquisition that never had 1000 yards in a season, 2 rookie TEs, and Ben-Jarvus Green Ellis completely blow away every offense in history(save 2007 Patriots)?

They played 7 Top 10 Defenses

#1
#2
#3
#5
#6
#6
#7

And #11, #12 twice.