OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

First, I have to say I generally love all your posts and many others on this thread. But I do find it comical that so many continue to berate this offense every week and here they are in the SB largely because the offense has caught fire the last 7 games. I think most of us have a brain cramp watching Brady in this offense because we saw 20 years of the dink and dunk. That is not the Bucs at all. They completed 6 passes of 20 yards or more vs GB which included the Miller TD at the end of the half which IMO iced the game even though GB clawed back in late. I do wish they did more of short stuff but they also put up 30 points every single playoff game on the road with the most explosive plays by a mile over any other team. Those chunk plays are a killer and flip games by their very nature. They are not going to change much vs KC nor should they. As you say, they are the worst secondary in the playoffs they will face. They can easily connect on the deep throws which they did the first game as well.

Thanks man. I like your posts too.

I’m not saying the coordinators are total buffoons. They’ve called some great plays. I’ve posted quite a bit that they should be getting more appreciation and that, in particular, if their names were Belichick and McDaniels, so many would be calling them geniuses. Examples last game: the bomb to Miller before halftime, the awesome dump off to Gronk in the 4th, the 9-yard gainer to Evans to kill the clock. I’ve also said Brady’s INTs are not on the coaches at all.

I like their aggressiveness and their willingness to use the deep pass. I actually think throwing deep in 3rd and 2 is a smart decision. That really isn’t my issue with the offense.

My issue is that on first down, they basically waste a play smashing into a brick wall for 2 yards, over and over and over again. They line up in an obvious run formation. They rarely use shotgun. They keep AB off the field. There’s no variety. There’s no chance to for a big gain. It’s literally like a 1980s smash mouth concept. Whereas they could have a much more effective running game keeping teams guessing and off-balance and mixing up formations, motioning, etc.

The team has scored 30 points against every playoff team, true. But it doesn’t change that the offense has lagged and is extremely lucky that the defense has forced so many turnovers. They will not beat KC with another offensive outing like that. And the main reason for the offense’s struggles is they’ve reverted back to that running style as well as mainly vertical routes from receivers.

I was gushing about the offense from weeks 14-17. Yes, they played bad defenses. But it’s the concepts they used...quick crossers for AB and Godwin, comebacks for Evans. Once those became established as their bread and butter, running the ball against a confused defense became very easy and converting deep plays became much easier too.

 

[amfootball]

Thanks man. I like your posts too.

I’m not saying the coordinators are total buffoons. They’ve called some great plays. I’ve posted quite a bit that they should be getting more appreciation and that, in particular, if their names were Belichick and McDaniels, so kanynwouod be calling them geniuses. Examples last game: the bomb to Miller before halftime, the awesome dump off to Gronk in the 4th, the 9-yard gainer to Evans to kill the clock. I’ve also said Brady’s INTs are not on the coaches at all.

I like their aggressiveness and their willingness to use the deep pass. I actually think throwing deep in 3rd and 2 is a smart decision. That really isn’t my issue with the offense.

My issue is that on first down, they basically waste a play smashing into a brick wall for 2 yards, over and over and over again. They line up in an obvious run formation. They rarely use shotgun. They keep AB off the field. There’s no variety. There’s no chance to for a big gain. It’s literally like a 1980s smash mouth concept. Whereas they could have a much more effective running game keeping teams guessing and off-balance and mixing up formations, motioning, etc.

The team has scored 30 points against every playoff team, true. But it doesn’t change that the offense has lagged and is extremely lucky that the defense has forced so many turnovers. They will not beat KC with another offensive outing like that. And the main reason for the offense’s struggles is they’ve reverted back to that running style as well as mainly vertical routes from receivers.

I was gushing about the offense from weeks 14-17. Yes, they played bad defenses. But it’s the concepts they used...quick crossers for AB and Godwin, comebacks for Evans. Once those became established as their bread and butter, running the ball against a confused defense became very easy and converting deep plays became much easier too.

I’ll post some splits between weeks 14-17 and postseason next.

I hate those first down runs too. I loved the Godwin pitch play to end the game vs GB. Why not do more creative runs like that? It's maddening.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Thanks man. I like your posts too.

I’m not saying the coordinators are total buffoons. They’ve called some great plays. I’ve posted quite a bit that they should be getting more appreciation and that, in particular, if their names were Belichick and McDaniels, so kanynwouod be calling them geniuses. Examples last game: the bomb to Miller before halftime, the awesome dump off to Gronk in the 4th, the 9-yard gainer to Evans to kill the clock. I’ve also said Brady’s INTs are not on the coaches at all.

I like their aggressiveness and their willingness to use the deep pass. I actually think throwing deep in 3rd and 2 is a smart decision. That really isn’t my issue with the offense.

My issue is that on first down, they basically waste a play smashing into a brick wall for 2 yards, over and over and over again. They line up in an obvious run formation. They rarely use shotgun. They keep AB off the field. There’s no variety. There’s no chance to for a big gain. It’s literally like a 1980s smash mouth concept. Whereas they could have a much more effective running game keeping teams guessing and off-balance and mixing up formations, motioning, etc.

The team has scored 30 points against every playoff team, true. But it doesn’t change that the offense has lagged and is extremely lucky that the defense has forced so many turnovers. They will not beat KC with another offensive outing like that. And the main reason for the offense’s struggles is they’ve reverted back to that running style as well as mainly vertical routes from receivers.

I was gushing about the offense from weeks 14-17. Yes, they played bad defenses. But it’s the concepts they used...quick crossers for AB and Godwin, comebacks for Evans. Once those became established as their bread and butter, running the ball against a confused defense became very easy and converting deep plays became much easier too.

I’ll post some splits between weeks 14-17 and postseason next.

the concepts they used in weeks 14-17 with those receivers was pure football porn for me. really hope Leftwich goes back into that bag of tricks for the last game

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

@amfootball

Brady, completion pct
Wk 14 (Min) - 65.2
Wk 15 (Atl) - 68.9
Wk 16 (Det) - 81.5
Wk 17 (Atl) - 63.4
Wild (Was) - 55.0
Div (NO) - 54.5
Conf (GB) - 55.6

Tampa Bay, yards per play
Wk 14 (Min) - 6.2
Wk 15 (Atl) - 6.3
Wk 16 (Det) - 8.4
Wk 17 (Atl) - 7.6
Wild (Was) - 7.0
Div (NO) - 4.6
Conf (GB) - 5.8

In their last two games, they’ve had:

• Three scoring drives off turnovers against the Saints (all in Saints territory)
• Two scoring drives off turnovers against the Packers (both in Packers territory)

The offense has played at a level likely to yield ~20 points if it weren’t for some great luck with field position, though I give them a lot of credit for converting those red zone opps into touchdowns.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I hate those first down runs too. I loved the Godwin pitch play to end the game vs GB. Why not do more creative runs like that? It's maddening.

The frustrating thing is you’re going to see the Chiefs, even with an offensive line in shambles, dial up some impressive misdirection plays. The Chiefs are not going to put in a 2-TE formation on first down, handoff to a bruiser, and play out of 2nd and 9 all game. They don’t waste plays...every play is designed for the possibility of a big gain. They don’t run the ball to hit a rushing attempts quota.

If you average 1.9 yards on first down, you might as well throw a 50 yard bomb.

 

[amfootball]

@amfootball

Brady, completion pct
Wk 14 (Min) - 65.2
Wk 15 (Atl) - 68.9
Wk 16 (Det) - 81.5
Wk 17 (Atl) - 63.4
Wild (Was) - 55.0
Div (NO) - 54.5
Conf (GB) - 55.6

Tampa Bay, yards per play
Wk 14 (Min) - 6.2
Wk 15 (Atl) - 6.3
Wk 16 (Det) - 8.4
Wk 17 (Atl) - 7.6
Wild (Was) - 7.0
Div (NO) - 4.6
Conf (GB) - 5.8

In their last two games, they’ve had:

• Three scoring drives off turnovers against the Saints (all in Saints territory)
• Two scoring drives off turnovers against the Packers (both in Packers territory)

The offense has played at a level likely to yield ~20 points if it weren’t for some great luck with field position, though I give them a lot of credit for converting those red zone opps into touchdowns.

Great stuff. Thanks man. Goes to show you how much you need a complete team to win. I think with GB, the offense was on fire putting up 21 in the first half. One TD was off of the pick but that is really the key. When do you score? When/where are the TOs? That is what I always loved about Brady. His situational awareness.

I was thinking and see if you agree. His best play of the GB playoff game was when he threw the ball in the dirt on third down from the Packers 28 when it was a 5 point game with about 5 minutes to go. He knew he had that field goal and could not risk a sack on what looked to be a screen pass that got blown up. Out comes Succup and he hits the money FG. When GB comes down the field to potentially score the TD, LaFleur said after the game that the reason he did not go for it on 4th down was because he knew he needed the TD AND the two point conversion to tie and he figured get the sure 3 right there and hold Tampa and get the ball back and go win the game with a TD. Now, I don't agree with his decision BUT he made the decision precisely because the Bucs were up 8 and not 5. That is how you win these monumental games. Heady play in the most critical of situations which forced a critical mistake from the opponent.

 

[amfootball]

The frustrating thing is you’re going to see the Chiefs, even with an offensive line in shambles, dial up some impressive misdirection plays. The Chiefs are not going to put in a 2-TE formation on first down, handoff to a bruiser, and play out of 2nd and 9 all game. They don’t waste plays...every play is designed for the possibility of a big gain. They don’t run the ball to hit a rushing attempts quota.

If you average 1.9 yards on first down, you might as well throw a 50 yard bomb.

I know. Tough match up. I do think Tampa has enough speed up front to contain the line of scrimmage. The issue is covering Hill down the field. I hope they are watching the Pats games from this year in 2018 and the Chargers game from this year to see how to slow that wagon down.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Great stuff. Thanks man. Goes to show you how much you need a complete team to win. I think with GB, the offense was on fire putting up 21 in the first half. One TD was off of the pick but that is really the key. When do you score? When/where are the TOs? That is what I always loved about Brady. His situational awareness.

The offense did well in the first half, but they also made it difficult on themselves. Look at the first drive of the game...

If you use the basic rule that the defense wins a play if they hold the offense to less than half of the first down yardage (and stop them in 3rd down), it looks like this:

6 touches for Leonard Fournette, 6 failures. Four runs that fell short of goal, two dropped passes.

3/3 on third down. Converted 3rd and 4, 3rd and 9, and 3rd and 7.

That’s just stubbornness and the end result of a touchdown is an unlikely result.

The other two touchdown drives were setup by a 3rd and 10 prayer to Godwin for 50 yards...and the Miller bomb before halftime. How confident should one be that they’ll be able to recreate those types of plays, as opposed to the Chiefs efficiently finding guys wide open all game and marching down the field with mostly short and intermediate passes?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I was thinking and see if you agree. His best play of the GB playoff game was when he threw the ball in the dirt on third down from the Packers 28 when it was a 5 point game with about 5 minutes to go. He knew he had that field goal and could not risk a sack on what looked to be a screen pass that got blown up. Out comes Succup and he hits the money FG. When GB comes down the field to potentially score the TD, LaFleur said after the game that the reason he did not go for it on 4th down was because he knew he needed the TD AND the two point conversion to tie and he figured get the sure 3 right there and hold Tampa and get the ball back and go win the game with a TD. Now, I don't agree with his decision BUT he made the decision precisely because the Bucs were up 8 and not 5. That is how you win these monumental games. Heady play in the most critical of situations which forced a critical mistake from the opponent.

For sure, it was a great play by Brady. It’s amazing how he slows down time to process...we’ve seen him stop throwing a screen mid throwing motion in NE. I’ll never forget in SB36 when he spiked the ball and caught it with one hand, totally still, like was standing in his basement and there weren’t 100 million people watching him in the final seconds of his first SB.

 

[amfootball]

The offense did well in the first half, but they also made it difficult on themselves. Look at the first drive of the game...

If you use the basic rule that the defense wins a play if they hold the offense to less than half of the first down yardage (and stop them in 3rd down), it looks like this:

6 touches for Leonard Fournette, 6 failures. Four runs that fell short of goal, two dropped passes.

3/3 on third down. Converted 3rd and 4, 3rd and 9, and 3rd and 7.

That’s just stubbornness and the end result of a touchdown is an unlikely result.

The other two touchdown drives were setup by a 3rd and 10 prayer to Godwin for 50 yards...and the Miller bomb before halftime. How confident should one be that they’ll be able to recreate those types of plays, as opposed to the Chiefs efficiently finding guys wide open all game and marching down the field with mostly short and intermediate passes?

View attachment 30016

My reason to believe it may be different is they had not had the bye yet. AB was not really factor until after the bye. I also hope that given Brady has more influence on the offense that he and Byron will sit down and dissect what to do differently this game. They are protecting Brady much better now. They are utilizing the whole field now with more slants, screens and crossers. I would be interested to know what Brady thinks of their corners. He picked on King ALL game vs GB. I would think he will find the weak spots and exploit it.

 

[amfootball]

Hope he’s okay. I know he’s dealt with depression in the past and the current climate is very hard on people who are depressed. Last login was January 16. What about @TommyBrady12? Haven’t seen him in a minute either, and he’s probably contributed more than half the posts in this thread.

Thanks for posting this. I will pray for PatsBoy and add him to my church prayer list. Do you know his first name? This time has been so difficult for all of us but especially those struggling with mental health.

 

[Redman443]

The chiefs are a bad matchup for TB. They can score quickly, Mahomes has never lost a game in his career by more than a posession. BB had a good strategy to beating the chiefs. Mix up the coverages in the first half to try and confuse him, When he figures it out in the second half, youre most likely going to be ahead and you have to just keep outscoring them. If Brady throws 3 picks, TB is toast. Brady is known for having a bad first quarter in the super bowl

 

[PP2]

The frustrating thing is you’re going to see the Chiefs, even with an offensive line in shambles, dial up some impressive misdirection plays. The Chiefs are not going to put in a 2-TE formation on first down, handoff to a bruiser, and play out of 2nd and 9 all game. They don’t waste plays...every play is designed for the possibility of a big gain. They don’t run the ball to hit a rushing attempts quota.

If you average 1.9 yards on first down, you might as well throw a 50 yard bomb.

If I were Toilet Bowles, I would, even though their OL is **** without Fisher, use just a three man front.

Depending on Vea's health, I would use him as much as I can just to clog up the middle and tie up two lineman. This would free up the backers to stretch horizontally and cover the misdirections, sweeps and crack tosses. Mahomes has turf toe and that kind of thing does not go away in two weeks. He will play hobbled, so it will be easier for the backers to catch up with him in open space if he escapes. This would let me play exclusively in nickel or even dime, have the personnel to cover a four vert play and still have a free safety to cheat over to Hill's side of the field.

But I am not Toilet Bowles, which means we'll see five men on the line, plus a backer or safety rolled up, and plenty of blitzes. A lot of them will get sucked into the backfield overpursuing. Reid is going to have a field day with all the motions and misdirections he has in his playbook and this will tire out the Bucs D.

 

[PP2]

The chiefs are a bad matchup for TB. They can score quickly, Mahomes has never lost a game in his career by more than a posession. BB had a good strategy to beating the chiefs. Mix up the coverages in the first half to try and confuse him, When he figures it out in the second half, youre most likely going to be ahead and you have to just keep outscoring them. If Brady throws 3 picks, TB is toast. Brady is known for having a bad first quarter in the super bowl

BB had the best plan to beat the Chiefs because he had (and still has) the personnel to cover all five offensive players, plus a roaming FS, and two backers over the flat to cut out the leaks. He used a three man front.

 

[Guts]

If I were Toilet Bowles, I would, even though their OL is **** without Fisher, use just a three man front.

Depending on Vea's health, I would use him as much as I can just to clog up the middle and tie up two lineman. This would free up the backers to stretch horizontally and cover the misdirections, sweeps and crack tosses. Mahomes has turf toe and that kind of thing does not go away in two weeks. He will play hobbled, so it will be easier for the backers to catch up with him in open space if he escapes. This would let me play exclusively in nickel or even dime, have the personnel to cover a four vert play and still have a free safety to cheat over to Hill's side of the field.

But I am not Toilet Bowles, which means we'll see five men on the line, plus a backer or safety rolled up, and plenty of blitzes. A lot of them will get sucked into the backfield overpursuing. Reid is going to have a field day with all the motions and misdirections he has in his playbook and this will tire out the Bucs D.

Kermit didn't look at all affected by the turf toe vs the Bills

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

The chiefs are a bad matchup for TB. They can score quickly, Mahomes has never lost a game in his career by more than a posession. BB had a good strategy to beating the chiefs. Mix up the coverages in the first half to try and confuse him, When he figures it out in the second half, youre most likely going to be ahead and you have to just keep outscoring them. If Brady throws 3 picks, TB is toast. Brady is known for having a bad first quarter in the super bowl

Idk about that. Bucs won’t spot them 17 points again in the first quarter. They played one safety in that game. This Bucs offense is a lot different now and not predictable. Chiefs have a makeshift OL right now. I doubt hill will be going for 200 again. What you wanna do is limit their possessions. I don’t like bowles but the guy has called some nice defensive schemes.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If I were Toilet Bowles, I would, even though their OL is **** without Fisher, use just a three man front.

Depending on Vea's health, I would use him as much as I can just to clog up the middle and tie up two lineman. This would free up the backers to stretch horizontally and cover the misdirections, sweeps and crack tosses. Mahomes has turf toe and that kind of thing does not go away in two weeks. He will play hobbled, so it will be easier for the backers to catch up with him in open space if he escapes. This would let me play exclusively in nickel or even dime, have the personnel to cover a four vert play and still have a free safety to cheat over to Hill's side of the field.

But I am not Toilet Bowles, which means we'll see five men on the line, plus a backer or safety rolled up, and plenty of blitzes. A lot of them will get sucked into the backfield overpursuing. Reid is going to have a field day with all the motions and misdirections he has in his playbook and this will tire out the Bucs D.

That's a great idea. I can't agree more with this post and exactly what I fear will happen too. A lot of unnecessary blitzes and overpursuits that will work against them and negate their advantage.

 

[Redman443]

Idk about that. Bucs won’t spot them 17 points again in the first quarter. They played one safety in that game. This Bucs offense is a lot different now and not predictable. Chiefs have a makeshift OL right now. I doubt hill will be going for 200 again. What you wanna do is limit their possessions. I don’t like bowles but the guy has called some nice defensive schemes.

Im going for the Bucs but in every meeting theyve been in, Mahomes has outplayed Brady

 

[amfootball]

BB had the best plan to beat the Chiefs because he had (and still has) the personnel to cover all five offensive players, plus a roaming FS, and two backers over the flat to cut out the leaks. He used a three man front.

Three man front was necessary because the Pats don't have the Dline that the Bucs do. With both tackles being out, you have to rush 4 or 5 at times to rush Mahomes and interrupt his flow. The key though is to rush smartly and not over pursue and create lanes for him to run.

 

[Guts]

Im going for the Bucs but in every meeting theyve been in, Mahomes has outplayed Brady

2018 regular season Meeting Brady outplayed Kermit in the AFCCCG it was a wash because although Tom won the game Kermit had better stats, 2019 Kermit outplayed him although if the refs call the Nkeal Harry touchdown who knows what could've happened. As of this year yeah Kermit outplayed him in the regular season. I think all the Brady and Kermit games have been decided by a possession so we are due for a great game next weekend.