If you were Bill, the first 3 things you would do this offseason are...?

[patsfanfromoversea]

patsfan- if/when @KontradictioN sends me over some names and prospects, I will share with you. I think there are a lot of Pat fans that will want to get familiar with some names this offseason. I know we're early in the process, but it will be good to get to know a few.

Thank you, i have gotten into the draft prospects couple of weeks ago and i am always interested to see what other guys think of the upcoming prospects and who they would like to see here

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bill O'Brien lost us the 2011 Super Bowl. I can't say Josh has ever lost us a Super Bowl--unless he was coordinating the defense in '17.

McDaniels admitted in the SportsCenter special that he was thrown off by Steve Spagnolo's game plan in the 2007 Super Bowl and couldn't adjust to it. He was outcoached big time.

Maybe. But we never had them. In fact, they controlled the LOS all day. Never a point when we dominated them the way we did in 2011. Giants were even quoted as thinking they couldn't stop us in '11.

Strahan has said numerous times that he thought the 2007 Giants were going to get their a**es kicked if he, Osi and Tuck didn't play lights out. He had a players only meeting with these guys stressing they had to play the game of their lives.

 

[ashley]

Thank you, i have gotten into the draft prospects couple of weeks ago and i am always interested to see what other guys think of the upcoming prospects and who they would like to see here

I'd also recommend checking out our draft board...we have quite a few very knowledgable draft nicks on the forum who really know their stuff and are familiar with a lot of the prospects. Going to be an interesting offseason.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

I'd also recommend checking out our draft board...we have quite a few very knowledgable draft nicks on the forum who really know their stuff and are familiar with a lot of the prospects. Going to be an interesting offseason.

yeah tbh i spend the most of time during these days there, i follow these threads esp the new one with prospects for us quit frequently, i enjoy to evaluate prospects and read about it here

 

[upstater1]

McDaniels admitted in the SportsCenter special that he was thrown off by Steve Spagnolo's game plan in the 2007 Super Bowl and couldn't adjust to it. He was outcoached big time.

Strahan has said numerous times that he thought the 2007 Giants were going to get their a**es kicked if he, Osi and Tuck didn't play lights out. He had a players only meeting with these guys stressing they had to play the game of their lives.

Teams get beat by inferior teams when they get overconfident. It's what happened in '07. Of course McDaniels and the coaches were also to blame.

My criticism of BOB in '11 is more specific though. We had the game won. It was only coaching arrogance that lost it. It was lost in that one drive. Even the refs knew it. The Giants knew it. It was a clear contrast with what happened in the Rams Super Bowl, when Josh trusted his players to win it. And they did.

 

[Love The Drake]

Kontra, been going back and forth trying to decide which I think is more of a need( they both are) a DT or edge rusher/DE.....you think DT is easier to fill via the draft? Usually the passing rushers go top 7. I'd like to get someone like Watt from Pitt who can get pressure on the qb...

I would trade a high pick for a veteran impacting pass rusher.
Thoughts on Carr or Mariota?

 

[archstanton543]

Trade Gilmore for a 2022 first rounder and possibly a 2021 fourth ROUND.

Who's going to pay that for an aging DB coming off a bad injury?

 

[farn]

Do you not at least acknowledge that Bill's drafts have been shyte - with an occasional Collins/Ryan, Flowers, Thuney, Harris, Onwenu - since after the first round of 2012? And even before then there were doomed-from-the-start picks within/near the top 100 such as Glas IR Dowling, Germy Cunnyham, Busto Brace, Terry Wheatley, Chicken Legs Crable, Kevin O'Connell, Stomper Meriweather, Guss Scott, Dexter Reid, Bethel Johnson, Brock Williams, Kenyatta Jones...

Yes. As do all GMs. Since 2012, when you state BB became manure, here are a few of the players he chose :

2012 Chandler Jones, HT Ebner.

2013 Collins, Harmon, Ryan

2014 Jimmy, Stork, James White, Fleming

2015 Flowers, Mason, Cardona

2016 Thuney, Brissett, Mitchell, Roberts, Karras

2017 only four picks - Wise still on team - will concede it was a bad year (though pick was used to get WR Cooks, I think)

2018 Wynn, Michel, Bentley

2019 Wino, Harris, Bailey

2020 Duggar, Herron, Onwenu

Add to that (1) UFAs (2) FA pickups during the season (3) trades (4) contracts - they rarely blow up in BB’s face

It’s not what he was doing 2000-2011 (a decade he was lights out), but key pieces to championship teams were added.

I did check out Colbert (PIT) and there is no question his drafting has been exemplary over his tenure. Kudos. I will check out the other two GMs offered as « better than BB ».

 

[TheRainMaker]

1. Find a bridge QB via FA or trade (easier said than done. I don't see what QB would want to go to NE)
2. Figure out which of the current players you want to keep and re-sign them (Thuney, Andrews, JC Jackson, etc.) DO NOT TRADE Gilmore!
3. Approach the offseason differently then you would with Brady at QB. No more waiting until values decline in FA as that won't work anymore. BB has to sell players on coming to NE now. Draft PROVEN NAME players from TOP SCHOOLS! Enough with over drafting guys like BB has been since 2013 as that will dig a deeper hole for this Franchise. Draft talent, not guys you "like", this isn't the early 2000's where the game was slower. Fill actually needs (WR, TE, DT, DE, ILB) and not hoard like he has at DB.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Do you really think the QBs in this draft are all trash aside from Lawrence?

Do I think that they are trash? No, but I do think that aside from Lawrence none of them are capable of starting. I’m always leery of the one year wonders, especially this year. I would rather take a multi year starter.

Someone is going to seriously over draft Justin Fields, he was beaten out at Georgia by 2 different QBs, both of whom are 3rd string back ups/practice squad players in the NFL. Plus the pedigree of OSU QBs is not exactly stellar.

So I don’t think highly of BYU’s Wilson, no competition. Toughest team they played was Coastal Carolina.

So I really don’t see any starting QBs coming from this class.

 

[TheRainMaker]

My criticism of BOB in '11 is more specific though. We had the game won. It was only coaching arrogance that lost it. It was lost in that one drive.

Refresh my memory on what you saw.

But I agree, they were up 17-9, had all the momentum with the Giants on the ropes and they choked it away.

 

[Toofy]

Who's going to pay that for an aging DB coming off a bad injury?

Maybe a superbowl contender. 2022 first rounder is equivalent to 2021 second round. And contender will be in 20s. Wont Gilmore not even be worth that. He should be able to take down wr 1 in single coverage. That could be the difference between championships. Again hoping. Else at least a 2021 second rounder.

 

[upstater1]

Refresh my memory on what you saw.

But I agree, they were up 17-9, had all the momentum with the Giants on the ropes and they choked it away.

It was the 2nd to last drive; it began at the New England 8 yard line. Patriots went to hurry-up. Brady was dinking and dunking them down the field.

1. Tom Brady pass complete short right to Wes Welker for 5 yards
2. Tom Brady pass complete short right to Danny Woodhead for 19 yards
3. BenJarvus Green-Ellis left end for 3 yards
4. Wes Welker left end for 11 yards
5. Danny Woodhead left tackle for 1 yard
6. Tom Brady pass complete short right to Rob Gronkowski for 6 yards
7. Tom Brady pass complete short left to Aaron Hernandez for 4 yards

So the Patriots are running hurry-up, with the lead already 17-15, they get a 1st down at the Giants 43 with 4 minutes left in the Super Bowl, a TD basically wins the Super Bowl, and what do they do? They go out of hurry-up. They bring in a jumbo package, 1 WR. They run it with BGE and they lose 3 yards. On the same drive they already ran the ball 2x for a total of 4 yards. They've had decent success with the pass. Brady had made 4 straight completions. Remember, this is the game in which Brady broke NFL records with 17 straight completions. The Giants couldn't defend the short stuff. They were gassed. So here we are, and Brady is going on another run to end the Super Bowl, and we go back to the run and end up at 2nd and long. The Giants are on the sideline mumbling that they can't stop him. Welker then drops the pass. The refs say, that would've been the game right there. Then Branch does the same on 3rd down. We had the Giants on the rope--and we went to something that wasn't working all game. Brady was on fire, diagnosing the defense, taking what they were giving, spreading them out, going hurry-up. So we brought in a jumbo package and told the Giants we were going to run. They stuffed it.

The weirdest thing about this sequence is that something similar happened in the regular season game against the Giants so you'd think the Patriots would've learned from it. Check this out:

November 24-20 loss to the Giants in 2011.

4th Qtr Drive #1:

1. T. Brady pass short left to R.Gronkowski to NE 26 for 6 yards (A.Ross). NE 12-Brady now has 37,278 career pass yards, passing Donovan McNabb for 16th place all-time.
2. T. Brady pass short middle to W.Welker to NYG 47 for 27 yards (M.Boley).
3. D.Woodhead right tackle to NYG 44 for 3 yards (L.Joseph). direct snap
4. T.Brady pass deep right to W.Welker pushed ob at NYG 16 for 28 yards (K.Phillips). NE 83-Welker 20th career 100-yard game.
5. T.Brady pass short middle to A.Hernandez to NYG 5 for 11 yards (K.Phillips) [O.Umenyiora]. NYG-C.Canty was injured during the play.
6. T.Brady pass short right to A.Hernandez for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. NE 12-Brady 24th straight regular season game with a TD pass, extends Patriots record.

The Giants then had 5 plays, 22 yards and punted back.

New England got the ball back at their own 21 with 11:13.

Drive #2:

1. Wes Welker left end for 13 yards
2. Tom Brady pass complete deep middle to Rob Gronkowski for 27 yards
3. Tom Brady pass incomplete deep left intended for Chad Johnson
4. Tom Brady pass complete short middle to Rob Gronkowski for 6 yards
5. Tom Brady pass complete short left to Wes Welker for 9 yards

So, we're passing the ball down to the Giants 28 yard line, we have the lead in the game, we just scored a TD on the previous drive, and now we have 8 minutes left on the clock.

So, we run BGE for a 2 yard gain, and on 2nd and 3rd and long, can't complete long passes to Welker and Chad Johnson.

Giants get the ball and go ahead on a TD.

We struck back after that quickly, and they scored the final TD.

These sequences don't look like much, and maybe they are not memorable, but when the offense is relentlessly moving the ball downfield through small gains, the defense gets tired. The Giants were gassed. They couldn't defend. We left them off the hook with a mind boggling jumbo package.

 

[ashley]

I would trade a high pick for a veteran impacting pass rusher.
Thoughts on Carr or Mariota?

I would probably lean toward Carr, not a huge fan of either though...would be an upgrade though

 

[pats_premi]

Hire Thomas Dimitroff as assistant to the head coach. Dimitroff knows how to draft skilled position players.

 

[Newton England]

Sign Curtis Samuel

Sign AJ Green

Sign Cam for peanuts .. Cam just wants to win, he doesn't care about the money

 

[VJCPatriot]

Get the DT1 in the first round. Use the second round pick to draft a ILB.

Use the COVID affected salary cap situation to obtain a chess piece on offense (whether that is a TE or WR I don't care), a backup swing tackle and finally figure out what vet QB would make the most sense in terms of price and skillset to built around while you keep developing younger QBs in the background.

Fix the run defense and get above average and consistent QB performance and we are easily back in the playoffs.

LOL you're going to get above average QB performance how? Got to start with drafting the new franchise QB. Cos Cam Newton isn't the answer and neither is Stidham.

 

[203Pat]

Every single year BB the GM has to make multiple roster decisions that impact the team. The last 5 years include 2 Super Bowl championships and a close Super Bowl loss. Impossible to have been "absolutely terrible" with those results. Who he kept and let go were huge in that success. He certainly missed on some draft picks, the AB and Sunu moves and that along with the cap has forced them into a rebuild. The fact he was able to maneuver around the cap for so many years and stay on top of the league has given many fans an unrealistic perspective on how difficult it is. Think about all the players that the Patriots have lost due to cap reasons the last several years that are still playing at a high level:

Signed monster contracts:
Chandler Jones Trey Flowers, Nate Solder, Trent Brown, Tom Brady

Big Contracts:
Jamie Collins, Kyle Van Noy , Malcom Butler, Logan Ryan

The only notable FA they brought in was Gilmore. If there was no salary cap the Pats would be fighting the Chiefs for a bye but that is not that way it is. He's had to continually replenish talent with limited draft resources and a tight cap of late. He decided to bite the bullet and deal with it this year and fortunately the Pats are in an enviable position of having a ton of dollars to spend. We'll see if it ultimately works out but this BB is a terrible GM narrative is absolute garbage.

A 2018 GM example: Trades 95th pick for Trent Brown and the 143rd pick. Brown has a brilliant year for Patriots and is instrumental in helping them win the Super Bowl. (doubt they win it w/o him) Brown leaves and signs a mega deal - Patriots recoup 3rd round comp pick for signing.

In the last 5 years we have lost a ton of talent and not adequately replaced it. Easley should have slid into the Chandler Jones role but he was a colossal bust. Malcolm Brown was supposed to take over for Wilfork but he was underwhelming in the role. We had a solid receiver in Brandin Cooks for about 5 minutes and then traded him but never replaced him. Gronk retired and Bill has pretty much ignored/whiffed completely on the position since. Collins and Van Noy left last year and Bill signed Brandon Copeland, a special teamer. Brady left and Bill had no plan. His plan for a minute was apparently go with Stidham, who he refuses to let start a game in a lost season, or Hoyer, who has been a healthy scratch since the KC debacle.

I keep hearing the excuses about the salary cap. BILL MANAGES THE SALARY CAP. If there are cap issues it is Bill's fault. I am not saying he would have been able to re-sign everyone to match the massive deals they got elsewhere but when these guys are leaving and your draft picks are busts then you have to pay middle of the road veterans and hope they pan out. If the Chiefs can find a way to pay Mahomes half a billion dollars as well as the rest of that all star team then there are ways to do it. Pretty much all of the Chiefs stars are homegrown. Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Chris Jones, Eric Fisher all drafted and then they supplement via free agency.

You want to cite Trent Brown but ignore the trades for Sanu, Eric Rowe, Michael Bennett, Russell Bodine, and Kony Ealy and ignore the fact that they didn't maximize the return on Jimmy Garoppolo or Chandler Jones as far as I am concerned.

Bill is a great head coach and I think he has been a solid GM over the span of his career as a whole but recently he has been terrible at roster building/management. Tom Brady covered that up for a while until the roster got so bad not even Brady could prop it up.

 

[luuked]

LOL you're going to get above average QB performance how? Got to start with drafting the new franchise QB. Cos Cam Newton isn't the answer and neither is Stidham.

You will not draft the franchise QB at #15 in the draft. However, you might be able to get a DT who can finally shore up the interior against the run closer to what we had with Wilfork. Alternatively, if no such player is available you might be able to find a legit difference making ILB who can be a true successor to HT. Hell, maybe there is a DE available at #15 that might just give us what we need to produce more pressure.

The QB situation for the foreseeable future (i.e. 1-2 years) will have to be resolved via FA. That doesn't mean you stop trying to develop younger QBs but that realistically you will need a veteran bridge guy for at least 1-2 years until that developmental player might have a shot to take over.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You will not draft the franchise QB at #15 in the draft. However, you might be able to get a DT who can finally shore up the interior against the run closer to what we had with Wilfork. Alternatively, if no such player is available you might be able to find a legit difference making ILB who can be a true successor to HT. Hell, maybe there is a DE available at #15 that might just give us what we need to produce more pressure.

The QB situation for the foreseeable future (i.e. 1-2 years) will have to be resolved via FA. That doesn't mean you stop trying to develop younger QBs but that realistically you will need a veteran bridge guy for at least 1-2 years until that developmental player might have a shot to take over.

Pats have the ammunition to trade into the top 10 if they see a QB they want. Picking a DT "feels safe". But the fact is you keep inserting trash at the QB position and you will continue to end up in the 6-10 or 7-9 region once the year is done. This year has shown that the franchise QB is the difference maker. BB might be a genius coach but he still can't win with trash at QB.