Bench Newton!

[lancerman]

The only reason you're bringing up his past account is that your original argument sucked. Which makes you look like a cheesey ass whole. Congrats.

The only reason you are getting involved is because we disagreed and rather than bring up a compelling argument that was fact based you went into some platitude of "derp your football IQ is bad" that. The reason I responded to him that way was because he went on several rants about my personality. Which somehow you conveniantly ignored. I didn't attack anyone until I got attacked.

I was staying on topic and arguing what was happening in the games. Some people apparently can't show them same courtesy. And yeah you were part of that. You could have stayed on topic instead of being reduced to one sentence insults and then waiting a day to piggyback on an issue that has nothing to do with you so you could attempt to tie it to the argument I made that you stopped arguing with directly. It's pretty transparent.

Now I want to stay on topic. Seems like you don't want to and would rather find other ways to attack my argument rather than a good reasoning of what Stidham is doing better than Cam and who adds more to the team.

 

[archstanton543]

Here's a brilliant idea. Why don't we talk about football instead of having a thread where two guys snipe at each other?

 

[amfootball]

Nope. We got the sixth ring from that decision. Jimmy, the glass, Garoppolo Shat his pants in a SB. BB made the right decision of letting the starlet go..

You mean Kraft made the right decision in letting Jimmy go.

 

[Tony2046]

The only reason you are getting involved is because we disagreed and rather than bring up a compelling argument that was fact based you went into some platitude of "derp your football IQ is bad" that. The reason I responded to him that way was because he went on several rants about my personality. Which somehow you conveniantly ignored. I didn't attack anyone until I got attacked.

I was staying on topic and arguing what was happening in the games. Some people apparently can't show them same courtesy. And yeah you were part of that. You could have stayed on topic instead of being reduced to one sentence insults and then waiting a day to piggyback on an issue that has nothing to do with you so you could attempt to tie it to the argument I made that you stopped arguing with directly. It's pretty transparent.

Now I want to stay on topic. Seems like you don't want to and would rather find other ways to attack my argument rather than a good reasoning of what Stidham is doing better than Cam and who adds more to the team.

You seem triggered at a snowflake level of triggerness.

The truth is that Andy or Ring6 has infinitely more football knowledge that you or I will ever possess. You will have to learn to live with your level of stupidity.

 

[Ring 6]

In a world where you end up with a hopeless incompetent at quarterback. Sound familiar?

So I’m curious. You would trade 2017-2019 success in order to have Jimmy g at QB now rather than being searching for the next QB, who if all goes right will be much better than Jimmy g?
Is one of 2 or a few mediocre seasons an unacceptable price for 2 trips to the SB and one title?
Honestly I’d trade at least 10 seasons of mediocrity and 1 SB for any other scenario that doesn’t include a SB.

 

[Ring 6]

You mean Kraft made the right decision in letting Jimmy go.

No belichick did. The facts are all right there for you, but you seem to want to pretend there is controversy instead.

 

[lancerman]

Here's a brilliant idea. Why don't we talk about football instead of having a thread where two guys snipe at each other?

I'm fine with it. That's what I what I wanted in the first place.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm fine with it. That's what I what I wanted in the first place.

You moved it away from football.

 

[amfootball]

No belichick did. The facts are all right there for you, but you seem to want to pretend there is controversy instead.

Um, the facts are there for you too. Bill wanted to keep Jimmy. All of the reports are there that Kraft told Bill to trade Jimmy.

 

[sb1]

What opportunity. This is his career to date
1) 4 passes in a blowout
2) out in for a half against the best team in the nfl with no practice time
3) mop up duty in 2 blowouts.

whatever you think of him, there is no chance that’s is enough to evaluate him.

Here’s a comparison. Tom
Brady first 60 passes (47 of which were after gettin all the reps in practice).
31-60 51.7% 306 yard no TDs. 66.4

Stidham career 20-37 54.5 212 yards 2 tds.

You can no more judge Stidham cateer on 37 passes than you can judge Brady’s on 60.
Stidham hasn’t proven anything but he hasn’t disproven anything either.
im just baffled why you would want to use a 4th round draft pick, never give him practice reps, never give him a real opportunity and just give up on him. Wouldn’t it make sense to put him out there and actually evaluate real play before you give up on him? Imagine if we took that approach with Damien Harris.

You’re not actually comparing Stidham to the GOAT Tom Brady, a guy who is a once in a lifetime professional athlete are you?

Yeah Stidham had the opportunity. Bill and Josh have seen him and evaluated him in not just game situations but also in 2 camps and in practices every day. Looks to me like their decision has been made. They’d rather stick with the guy who can’t pass. Tells me everything I need to know.

And again - how come Jimmy can enter a game cold like in that KC blowout and look 100x better than Stidham ever looked? Why does Stid get the benefit of the doubt?

Stid is a 4th round draft pick and looks like one. That’s not unusual, 4th round draft pick QB’s tend to be nothing special. There’s nothing about him that stands out. He accomplished nothing at Auburn. Pats in my opinion can easily find 10 other guys in the draft just like him with the same ceiling.

 

[amfootball]

You seem triggered at a snowflake level of triggerness.

The truth is that Andy or Ring6 has infinitely more football knowledge that you or I will ever possess. You will have to learn to live with your level of stupidity.

LOL. No he doesn't. You must think pretty low of yourself. Your football knowledge is very good and your takes spot on the majority of the time.

 

[Ring 6]

You seem triggered at a snowflake level of triggerness.

The truth is that Andy or Ring6 has infinitely more football knowledge that you or I will ever possess. You will have to learn to live with your level of stupidity.

Thanks man. I have to learn to ignore the feces flinging monkeys that aren’t worth the time. I have a major flaw of being annoyed by bs getting posted and left unchallenged and sometimes forget that people reading it recognize the source.
Inevitably when you acknowledge the feces flinging monkeys they only fling a greater amount.

 

[1960Pats]

Perhaps you misunderstand. I don’t like you. I think you are a pompous person who lacks any integrity at all. I think you post in the manner you do because you are so full of yourself you think you are creating an image.
I think you know virtually nothing about football, that you know you know nothing about football and try your best to fool people into thinking you do.
Of course you think the way I communicate with you is “repelling”. I have less than zero respect for you and when I see your ignorant posts I call them out, only to be met with a pompous diatribe like the o e above. Every single time a person disagrees with you, evidently to cover your lack of knowledge and intellect, you immediately make it personal. And you lie whenever it suits you, case in point, no if you put someone on ignore you do not see their posts. You have to actively open up posts from someone you are ignoring. Of course that defeats the purpose of ignore when you do that, but accomplishes your goal of being in your safe space where you can post things like “I can’t see who you are responding to but I can tell who it is” then trash “whoever it is”. You’ve done that many times and now just exposed your lie by saying you can see and do look.
I have never in the entire time I have been on this board made any conversation personal except in response to people like you who insist on making it personal.
You have no wit. You have no basis for the drivel you post. So when you are called out you attack the messenger. It’s the lowest form of communication.
So perhaps I should apologize for not making this clear in the past. When I interact with you, I have no intention at all of communicating with you on a level that makes you comfortable. I intend to communicate with you in the way I would communicate with any pompous disingenuous liar. And that is 100% on you for the way you have conducted yourself. Perhaps you should really put me on ignore, be a man and follow through and drop down a few leagues in who you chose to challenge.

Judging by your post I made the right decision by putting that dipstick on ignore a couple of months ago.

 

[Ring 6]

You’re not actually comparing Stidham to the GOAT Tom Brady, a guy who is a once in a lifetime professional athlete are you?

Yeah Stidham had the opportunity. Bill and Josh have seen him and evaluated him in not just game situations but also in 2 camps and in practices every day. Looks to me like their decision has been made. They’d rather stick with the guy who can’t pass. Tells me everything I need to know.

And again - how come Jimmy can enter a game cold like in that KC blowout and look 100x better than Stidham ever looked? Why does Stid get the benefit of the doubt?

Stid is a 4th round draft pick and looks like one. That’s not unusual, 4th round draft pick QB’s tend to be nothing special. There’s nothing about him that stands out. He accomplished nothing at Auburn. Pats in my opinion can easily find 10 other guys in the draft just like him with the same ceiling.

Come on. I am comparing 2 players yet to have a real opportunity to show that it’s too soon to judge.

So if Belichick starts Stidham next week or the week after them your entire argument is moot? You have no way of knowing why he is doing what he is doing. Why did he not play Harris last year? Why was Meyers on the bench?

Jimmy had 1 TD drive. Just like Stidham did against the Chargers. Is your argument that the defining characteristic of a qb is how they play in limited reps on a blowout? That seems to be the worst type of evaluation.

Let me ask you this. What do you lose by letting him take reps in practice, and play a full game or 2 or 3?
You get a true evaluation. Maybe you are right, but you are guessing without giving a real opportunity. What possible reason is there to keep playing cam Newton? There is no way he is coming back here. His level of play is completely unacceptable. It’s very unlikely we will play this scheme next year, so you are ******ing the development of the other 10 players. It makes no sense at all.
Im not sure exactly why you have such a grudge against Stidham I would think as a fan of the team you would hope that the only guy in the roster at qb who could possibly help us on the future would be a guy you were hoping would go out there and overcome your doubts and prove he can be the guy. Instead you seem to be hoping your dislike of him wins out.

 

[amfootball]

You’re not actually comparing Stidham to the GOAT Tom Brady, a guy who is a once in a lifetime professional athlete are you?

Yeah Stidham had the opportunity. Bill and Josh have seen him and evaluated him in not just game situations but also in 2 camps and in practices every day. Looks to me like their decision has been made. They’d rather stick with the guy who can’t pass. Tells me everything I need to know.

And again - how come Jimmy can enter a game cold like in that KC blowout and look 100x better than Stidham ever looked? Why does Stid get the benefit of the doubt?

Stid is a 4th round draft pick and looks like one. That’s not unusual, 4th round draft pick QB’s tend to be nothing special. There’s nothing about him that stands out. He accomplished nothing at Auburn. Pats in my opinion can easily find 10 other guys in the draft just like him with the same ceiling.

We have no idea about Stid. We have not seen him play a game as a starter with a full week of practice. Would make the most sense to give him that op now with 3 games left.

 

[Ring 6]

Um, the facts are there for you too. Bill wanted to keep Jimmy. All of the reports are there that Kraft told Bill to trade Jimmy.

That is just not true. The only “report” is the espn hit piece that made up that lie.
john lynch literally described what happened. He asked for Brady and belichick laughed at him.
Kraft himself says it was belichicks decision.
Belichick himself said he wanted to keep Jimmy but couldn’t because of the expiring contract and the cap.
there was absolutely no chance that belichick wanted to dump Brady in 2017 in order to keep Jimmy. To believe that would mean you couldn’t be a patriots fan who has paid attention to the last 20 years.

 

[Ring 6]

We have no idea about Stid. We have not seen him play a game as a starter with a full week of practice. Would make the most sense to give him that op now with 3 games left.

Exactly

 

[lancerman]

LOL. No he doesn't. You must think pretty low of yourself. Your football knowledge is very good and your takes spot on the majority of the time.

I really would love to know what qualifies him (Ring) of all people to have more football knowledge than me. I'm not saying anybody here lacks knowledge, but the guy has been calling Bill Belichick and idiot multiple times and insinuating he might not be the right guy anymore.

I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I grew up with a lifelong football official as a father and spent a huge portion of my childhood and adolescence traveling the country watching multiple games at the college level in a press box each weekend and sitting in on official meetings, knowing college and NFL refs who live and breath the game, reading the updated rule books every year for every league, actually playing the game at 3 different levels (and I was average at best). I have multiple contacts that work in either the NFL or individual team offices (not just the Patriots). Suffice it to say, I had a pretty extensive history with the game compared to the average person over more than a quarter century. So I'm always interested when someone says that my football IQ is low compared to them. Like maybe he's coaching at the NFL or college level or something and I just don't know it, but whatever. I'm comfortable with my level of understanding of the game when.

As far as this thread goes, my only question really is what beyond being unhappy with Cam is making people think the coaching staff on this team is wrong about Stidham. Because I can tell you, I've seen this exact same scenario play out on multiple teams, and usually when the coaches are avoiding starting someone despite the guy in front of them sucking.... there's a usually a pretty apparent reason. The answer can't just be "Cam isn't good so let's start anybody else". If the only answer is "I don't like Cam and will try anything" then I would probably just defer to the coach.

 

[sb1]

Come on. I am comparing 2 players yet to have a real opportunity to show that it’s too soon to judge.

For every Brady that starts a career like that there are dozens of other guys who don’t end up doing anything in the league. There’s a reason why Bill was on the verge of benching Bledsoe. Compare that to his take of benching Cam for Stidham.

So if Belichick starts Stidham next week or the week after them your entire argument is moot? You have no way of knowing why he is doing what he is doing. Why did he not play Harris last year? Why was Meyers on the bench?

Harris and Meyers earned their place on the field and that’s why they will stick. Stidham has earned nothing. The Pats aren’t missing out on anything keeping a guy like that on the bench. He’s played like the backup QB at best that he likely always will be.

Jimmy had 1 TD drive. Just like Stidham did against the Chargers. Is your argument that the defining characteristic of a qb is how they play in limited reps on a blowout? That seems to be the worst type of evaluation.

Jimmy was a viable NFL prospect that’s why he looked great. Stidham hasn’t shown he is one in any game he’s played.

Let me ask you this. What do you lose by letting him take reps in practice, and play a full game or 2 or 3?

You waste time showcasing a 4th round QB for the fans instead of seeing if the former league MVP and conference champion who struggled badly passing this year but is a run threat and is well liked by the team has a place on the team next year as our bridge QB in 2021.

You get a true evaluation. Maybe you are right, but you are guessing without giving a real opportunity. What possible reason is there to keep playing cam Newton?

See above. There’s value. There’s no value showcasing your backup QB for the fans. he is not a starter, he will never be a starter, the Pats are guaranteed to upgrade in 2021 via draft so what’s the point.

There is no way he is coming back here. His level of play is completely unacceptable. It’s very unlikely we will play this scheme next year, so you are ******ing the development of the other 10 players. It makes no sense at all.
Im not sure exactly why you have such a grudge against Stidham I would think as a fan of the team you would hope that the only guy in the roster at qb who could possibly help us on the future would be a guy you were hoping would go out there and overcome your doubts and prove he can be the guy. Instead you seem to be hoping your dislike of him wins out.

I don’t have a grudge against anyone, I just want us to have a much better QB on the roster than Stidham. He is not very good. The Pats can do much better than that with QB prospects. There should not be a QB controversy here with a guy like that.

 

[amfootball]

That is just not true. The only “report” is the espn hit piece that made up that lie.
john lynch literally described what happened. He asked for Brady and belichick laughed at him.
Kraft himself says it was belichicks decision.
Belichick himself said he wanted to keep Jimmy but couldn’t because of the expiring contract and the cap.
there was absolutely no chance that belichick wanted to dump Brady in 2017 in order to keep Jimmy. To believe that would mean you couldn’t be a patriots fan who has paid attention to the last 20 years.

You need to re-read the reports. The local media was reporting that Kraft told Bill to trade Jimmy loooong before the ESPN piece. That is where Wickersham got his info - from our beat guys. To be a fan of the Pats as you say for the last 20 years would also mean that I know Bill wants to move on from a player a year early rather than a year too late which would made perfect sense from him to move on from Brady at age 40 and put in Jimmy. Bill said when he drafted Jimmy that you always want to be early on the QB position. He was forced by Kraft to trade Jimmy precisely because Brady had performed so well those 3 years (2014-2017). We know how desperately Bill wanted him because he did not trade him in the spring when he could have gotten more trade value but hung on to him until the trade deadline. That is how much he wanted to keep him. Easily his worst GM move given what we would have gotten in March vs. Oct.