Bench Newton!

[jah]

I really don't give a **** who we trot out at QB at this point. Stidham, Newton, whatever. They're all not the answer next year. All I want to say is that if we do make the change, don't be surprised when absolutely nothing changes or improves in the results.

 

[lancerman]

I really don't give a **** who we trot out at QB at this point. Stidham, Newton, whatever. They're all not the answer next year. All I want to say is that if we do make the change, don't be surprised when absolutely nothing changes or improves in the results.

THANK YOU. Finally some common sense

 

[Ring 6]

Andy perhaps you don’t understand.... I went out of my way to avoid talking to you for a year and the only reason we are talking is because you made a new account.

But it’s a relief that you don’t like me because it’s so mutual. Haha my bad I got confused because when I posted that I put you on ignore a few months ago the mods told me stop because you were getting upset about it. But thanks for clearing that up. It makes me feel a lot better. And now I don’t need to expect that you will report it again because you are upset and the mods won’t have to tell me to lay off because they feel bad for you.

Seriously Andy did you think at any point in YET ANOTHER delusional rant that I thought you did anything but try to ****post and validate yourself? I’ve been saying this for years. Do you know how many people are having a laugh at you right now? But thanks for confirming to me that you are delusional and pretentious enough to try to make some nonsensical point with your posting behavior that ran you off to a new account. At least you are self aware and we can stop pretending you are the victim you always like to play as.

Thank you so much. I already screen shotted this and am excited for the new material you provided

Again you prove who you are. Basically everything you said is a lie. The truth is during your rantings in the political forum I asked you what you had done to fix the problems you claimed were so horrific. I asked probably a dozen times. Since you had no answer you first tried to avoid the question and then announced that you were putting me on ignore. And of course you never did because you have responded to my posts numerous times. You are a liar.
Just like I did today I stated right out in the open what I think of you and your phoniness, ignorance and arrogance.
Im sure you will soon go to your safe place and pretend you aren’t reading my posts because you know I see through you.
You would be wise to stop creating discussion between us because you lose every time.

 

[Ring 6]

I really don't give a **** who we trot out at QB at this point. Stidham, Newton, whatever. They're all not the answer next year. All I want to say is that if we do make the change, don't be surprised when absolutely nothing changes or improves in the results.

The difference is that Stidham has not had a legitimate opportunity to show how he can play.

 

[lancerman]

Again you prove who you are. Basically everything you said is a lie. The truth is during your rantings in the political forum I asked you what you had done to fix the problems you claimed were so horrific. I asked probably a dozen times. Since you had no answer you first tried to avoid the question and then announced that you were putting me on ignore. And of course you never did because you have responded to my posts numerous times. You are a liar.
Just like I did today I stated right out in the open what I think of you and your phoniness, ignorance and arrogance.
Im sure you will soon go to your safe place and pretend you aren’t reading my posts because you know I see through you.
You would be wise to stop creating discussion between us because you lose every time.

Dude there's a whole group of people that put you on ignore because of your reputation and you whined about it. You whined about it so much that a mod had to tell us all not to mention it because you were getting upset and reporting everyone. That's who you are.

You want to talk about lying, for months you denied being Andy Johnson. Until finally you caused enough of a disaster and fighting in the politics threads that it was acknowledged by the person who ran the site (not that I needed that because I pretty much had it confirmed to me before that). So you actively lied about WHO YOU ARE for months because you became such a toxic pariah on here and didn't want too be associated with your own reputation. That is the type of person you are. You have no moral superiority to talk to anybody about integrity or lying. You got caught with your pants down and lost all credibility after you were adamant for months that you weren't who you said you were.

You have caused problem after problem and this is not the first time you've had this exact same conversation with myself and others in the past under multiple accounts. In fact we had this same conversation over two years ago about your behavior and strangely I'm not the one who ended up hiding my identity so other people wouldn't treat me like a joke. I didn't see your posts for over a year because of it. I don't know where you got this idea in your head that anybody on earth cares what you think of them. If you didn't make an alt account and the new format didn't make it so obvious you were replying to me all the time even after I told you I put you on ignore again, we wouldn't be talking. Your game is old, you running to the mods is old, you are the same broken record you've always been trying to act like you are an insightful person who doesn't have a clue.

And I don't care anymore. Go run the mods so they can tell me to ignore you because despite everything they feel bad for you like your some helpless puppy. I'm not even going all in on you out of respect to certain people. Time after time you prove you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

You know it's not just me if you are really honest with yourself. Now this is completely off topic but I know you love to derail threads to feel important so I'm going to bow out.

 

[NormZauchin]

I really don't give a **** who we trot out at QB at this point. Stidham, Newton, whatever. They're all not the answer next year. All I want to say is that if we do make the change, don't be surprised when absolutely nothing changes or improves in the results.

Since insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again (starting Cam at QB) and expecting different results (more TD passes than interceptions), Belichick should at least avoid that suspicion and give Stidham a chance.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I do not think stidham has shown bb anything in practice, otherwise bb would lank newton as he once did Bledsoe.

to me, the fact that stidham can not beat out a pathetic qb like newton is more an indictment against stidham!

 

[crawhammer]

Sure Cam is clearly washed up. He's physically spent and never had it mentally. Bill miscalculated egregiously with the quarterback position. This team isn't good overall but with Brady they're probably 9-4 and would have won the division at 11-5. But Belichick is a massive douchebag who is more interested is propping up his son as a future coach as opposed to perhaps holding onto the player who kept his team competitive despite diminishing roster talent.

 

[JayNM]

I have one thought on Cam and our Offense that has repeatedly appear in me mind, every game basically. Its not a complete fair assesment and the bias is obvious

Whenever we start going for passes, everything still reminds me too much of Tom Brady's offense. Newton in particular, when he is in the pocket, kind feel like he trying to emulate Brady in his dropbacks, reads, posture...

I didnt follow him closely on Carolina, but everytime I see him drop 4-5 steps, i see the edges going wide to get there and he tries to move back inside to escape the pressure, I think "This is Tom Brady's thing" ... Almost like he's trying to play more from inside the pocket. He doesnt have the awereness to keep all the moving parts in check, he relies on his athleticism to scape but that's hard to put on display if you playing within a small space. That wasnt i was seeing from him back in his hay day, IIRC

Added to that, Newton's short game is BAD. Our bread and butter of old is more like a freaking cactus on plate nowadays... Seriously, I fear more for 3-5 yard passes than intermediate and long passes. I mean whenever you go for those long developing plays, our QB needs to be smarter on his safety valves.

With all this being said, I do not support Cam's benching. Its far from clear if Stid is an improvement and Hoyer shouldnt be an NFL player anymore. Plus Cam's got control and respect in the dressing room (supposedly) and that is something that it cant be overstated

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Whenever we start going for passes, everything still reminds me too much of Tom Brady's offense. Newton in particular, when he is in the pocket, kind feel like he trying to emulate Brady in his dropbacks, reads, posture...

Bingo. I fear that we are trying to fit a square peg into a circle. I don't think the offense has...'evolved' or 'changed' enough to truly compliment Cam Newtons throwing abilities. I know the on going punch line is Cams shoulder is shot. I don't believe that to be true.

Cam doesn't throw short passes well. Be it screens or whatever. There's no arc or in some situations too much arc (rb waiting for ever for the ball to drop) Intermediate and deep balls he's been pretty good. My theory is these short passes are usually for small gains..throughout his career cam was expected to pick these yards up with his legs and just never developed these passes in his arsenal. This might explain the passes to the dirt...wildly inaccurate throws to rbs/wrs only 10 yds down field. Now I don't think that's a good thing..but I don't nessecarily fault Cam- his past coaching has lot to do with what you see today.

The offenses bread and butter are these short quick passes or atleast has been. With this mickey mouse of an off-season and limited spending ability I don't think anyone has had to the time to review/study/expand the playbook to best suit cam...minimize the throws he can't make and expand on the ones he can. I think that's why there's this reluctancy on the coaches to bury Cam right now and bench him. I think behind the scenes it's understood Cam is doing all he can with limited resources.

This conversation can branch out to a lot of diff topics. It's not the play book it's personnel too. Historically we've de-emphasized the permieter and maybe we are at a point where that needs to change? Not many qbs are going to come through that door that could read a defense as well and quickly as 12 did.....maybe no one ever will. I think it has alot to do with the "graphic" aired on Thursday with Wrs drafted. I wish they mentioned which rounds some of those wrs were taken. There hasn't really been an effort to find the wr in the draft. Those weren't all high picks. Again this is/was by design..so long as Brady had his slot - TEs and receiving back he could shred a d.

Another potential topic is talent/quality around the qb. Multiple qbs in the nfl will always tip toe around throwing the talent under the bus if it's not up to par. When a star qb losses his best wr and remainder of the cast isn't up to snuff ...you hear about it. I like our cast but I'm not delusional..it isn't one you want to trot our everyday Sunday unless your qb is 12 who has a proven record of taking meh talent around him and elevating them (not many, if any qbs - can do that..we cant pretend that this is the norm).

This sounds like I'm absolving Cam of any mistakes..no it's not true. He's made some fatal mistakes, at times he's looked awful, there are limitations to his game and he's probably way more hurt than we know. However I do think with proper planning, strategizing and roster building you can build an offense and philosophy that masks his short comings and amplifies what he does well. Just takes time and money ...2 things we really didn't have this year.

Will he be back? I don't know. Maybe the staff doesn't want to change the system and is ok with cutting the cord on the Cam experiment. Maybe Cam is tiered of playing for chump change and getting dragged through mud while a fan base expected him to do what brady did and elevate a "meh" offensive cast. Maybe there's a wink wink nudge nudge agreement that Cam just has to endure this for one season and next season he gets paid and a loaded arsenal. Its hard to tell.

Either way - the team will have my support even if I disagree with the decisions they make.

Go Pats!

 

[lancerman]

I have one thought on Cam and our Offense that has repeatedly appear in me mind, every game basically. Its not a complete fair assesment and the bias is obvious

Whenever we start going for passes, everything still reminds me too much of Tom Brady's offense. Newton in particular, when he is in the pocket, kind feel like he trying to emulate Brady in his dropbacks, reads, posture...

I didnt follow him closely on Carolina, but everytime I see him drop 4-5 steps, i see the edges going wide to get there and he tries to move back inside to escape the pressure, I think "This is Tom Brady's thing" ... Almost like he's trying to play more from inside the pocket. He doesnt have the awereness to keep all the moving parts in check, he relies on his athleticism to scape but that's hard to put on display if you playing within a small space. That wasnt i was seeing from him back in his hay day, IIRC

Added to that, Newton's short game is BAD. Our bread and butter of old is more like a freaking cactus on plate nowadays... Seriously, I fear more for 3-5 yard passes than intermediate and long passes. I mean whenever you go for those long developing plays, our QB needs to be smarter on his safety valves.

With all this being said, I do not support Cam's benching. Its far from clear if Stid is an improvement and Hoyer shouldnt be an NFL player anymore. Plus Cam's got control and respect in the dressing room (supposedly) and that is something that it cant be overstated

The Seattle game was a good example because it was clearly his best game and it was largely long and intermediate routes he was making passes on.

I think people don’t give Brady credit for how precise you need to throw and read the defense in the short and middle game where there is an abundance of traffic and moving pieces. Once it’s deeper it’s really just a game of who is open and how athletic is the receiver vs his coverage.

Can is more comfortable in space and is less decisive and throws low in a crowd

 

[sb1]

I have one thought on Cam and our Offense that has repeatedly appear in me mind, every game basically. Its not a complete fair assesment and the bias is obvious

Whenever we start going for passes, everything still reminds me too much of Tom Brady's offense. Newton in particular, when he is in the pocket, kind feel like he trying to emulate Brady in his dropbacks, reads, posture...

I didnt follow him closely on Carolina, but everytime I see him drop 4-5 steps, i see the edges going wide to get there and he tries to move back inside to escape the pressure, I think "This is Tom Brady's thing" ... Almost like he's trying to play more from inside the pocket. He doesnt have the awereness to keep all the moving parts in check, he relies on his athleticism to scape but that's hard to put on display if you playing within a small space. That wasnt i was seeing from him back in his hay day, IIRC

Added to that, Newton's short game is BAD. Our bread and butter of old is more like a freaking cactus on plate nowadays... Seriously, I fear more for 3-5 yard passes than intermediate and long passes. I mean whenever you go for those long developing plays, our QB needs to be smarter on his safety valves.

With all this being said, I do not support Cam's benching. Its far from clear if Stid is an improvement and Hoyer shouldnt be an NFL player anymore. Plus Cam's got control and respect in the dressing room (supposedly) and that is something that it cant be overstated

That was exactly my observation about the offense. Cam is the one guy who should NOT be running a Brady offense - really he is the worst possible fit for an offense like that and you said the reasons why. The guy who made that offense great is in Tampa Bay. Glad I’m not the only one who thought this.

I was sure Josh would change it up but it feels like he hasn’t really. Maybe next year with a real offseason and preseason it will be more of a fit for our new Qb whoever he is.

 

[sb1]

The difference is that Stidham has not had a legitimate opportunity to show how he can play.

Yes he has and he’s terrible.

Jimmy was put in the game in that KC blowout in 2014 and looked 100 times better than Stiddy in every way. How come he looked good in the same situation and with Stiddy it’s excuse after excuse.

 

[Ring 6]

Dude there's a whole group of people that put you on ignore because of your reputation and you whined about it. You whined about it so much that a mod had to tell us all not to mention it because you were getting upset and reporting everyone. That's who you are.

You want to talk about lying, for months you denied being Andy Johnson. Until finally you caused enough of a disaster and fighting in the politics threads that it was acknowledged by the person who ran the site (not that I needed that because I pretty much had it confirmed to me before that). So you actively lied about WHO YOU ARE for months because you became such a toxic pariah on here and didn't want too be associated with your own reputation. That is the type of person you are. You have no moral superiority to talk to anybody about integrity or lying. You got caught with your pants down and lost all credibility after you were adamant for months that you weren't who you said you were.

You have caused problem after problem and this is not the first time you've had this exact same conversation with myself and others in the past under multiple accounts. In fact we had this same conversation over two years ago about your behavior and strangely I'm not the one who ended up hiding my identity so other people wouldn't treat me like a joke. I didn't see your posts for over a year because of it. I don't know where you got this idea in your head that anybody on earth cares what you think of them. If you didn't make an alt account and the new format didn't make it so obvious you were replying to me all the time even after I told you I put you on ignore again, we wouldn't be talking. Your game is old, you running to the mods is old, you are the same broken record you've always been trying to act like you are an insightful person who doesn't have a clue.

And I don't care anymore. Go run the mods so they can tell me to ignore you because despite everything they feel bad for you like your some helpless puppy. I'm not even going all in on you out of respect to certain people. Time after time you prove you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

You know it's not just me if you are really honest with yourself. Now this is completely off topic but I know you love to derail threads to feel important so I'm going to bow out.

Once again you are wrong about everything. But you are just being you, this is what underlies a discussion about Cam
Newton. Your insecurity and deflection to a personal attack.
If you had the balls to act like this in real life it would be resolved with a punch in the face and you would whimper away.
I don’t like you and you don’t like me. Every time you interject yourself I welcomed into my conversations about FOOTBALL you always turn it into something other than football. Everyone can easily see you do this because you have no clue what you are talking about and must deflect. Of course as you already know, evidenced by your page long diatribes, you are attacking the wrong person.
Every single time you try to discuss football with me it turns into you crying about made up personal attacks. It always will because you never learn.
Back to the topic, you who championed signing newton to a long term
30 mill a year RIGHT NOW because it’s a bargain inserted yourself into the conversation with this:

You assume that you are having a rational conversation as opposed to a cherry picked one that is going to ignore huge chunks of unfortunate data

You knew when you posted it that it was bull crap as you later admitted you are wrong about newton.
But you can’t help your obsession with me. It’s creepy. This is in addition to many, many other attempts to troll me by commenting on my posts while lying that you cannot see them. I don’t like you, I see no value in any opinion you have, so I do not engage you because the board does not need this. After many trolling attempts to deflect from your horrible football opinions to make it personal, you made a comment about our discussions as if to imply I should act differently to get along with you, so I responded clearly and honestly that I have no interest in getting along with you, because I have no respect for you, your opinions, or the dbag way you communicate. That should have been the end of it.
Instead it turns into this. You are not worth my time. I’m sure you will try your best to keep this going by writing another essay in response repeating again all the bs you sure about me every time I challenge your ignorant football opinions. It’s what you do.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes he has and he’s terrible.

Jimmy was put in the game in that KC blowout in 2014 and looked 100 times better than Stiddy in every way. How come he looked good in the same situation and with Stiddy it’s excuse after excuse.

What opportunity. This is his career to date
1) 4 passes in a blowout
2) out in for a half against the best team in the nfl with no practice time
3) mop up duty in 2 blowouts.

whatever you think of him, there is no chance that’s is enough to evaluate him.

Here’s a comparison. Tom
Brady first 60 passes (47 of which were after gettin all the reps in practice).
31-60 51.7% 306 yard no TDs. 66.4

Stidham career 20-37 54.5 212 yards 2 tds.

You can no more judge Stidham cateer on 37 passes than you can judge Brady’s on 60.
Stidham hasn’t proven anything but he hasn’t disproven anything either.
im just baffled why you would want to use a 4th round draft pick, never give him practice reps, never give him a real opportunity and just give up on him. Wouldn’t it make sense to put him out there and actually evaluate real play before you give up on him? Imagine if we took that approach with Damien Harris.

 

[Tony2046]

You were so wrong you have a different username

That's an ass eating reply. Argue the point or don't argue the point but resorting to cheap shot tactics to win an unwinnable argument doesn't win you any brownie points. It just makes you an ass hole.

 

[Tony2046]

In hindsight letting jimmy go for 2 years of brady was a poor decision. Or more the fact of letting Jimmy go and then not committing to Tom Brady all while not having a succession plan.

When we traded Jimmy I though "oh we are going all in on Tom until he's 45" instead he plays 2 more years and leaves. The whole Tom brady/Jimmy G situation has played out poorly

Nope. We got the sixth ring from that decision. Jimmy, the glass, Garoppolo Shat his pants in a SB. BB made the right decision of letting the starlet go..

 

[Tony2046]

In a world where you end up with a hopeless incompetent at quarterback. Sound familiar?

Dumb. But we're used to your "brilliant" opinions.

 

[Tony2046]

Andy perhaps you don’t understand.... I went out of my way to avoid talking to you for a year and the only reason we are talking is because you made a new account.

But it’s a relief that you don’t like me because it’s so mutual. Haha my bad I got confused because when I posted that I put you on ignore a few months ago the mods told me stop because you were getting upset about it. But thanks for clearing that up. It makes me feel a lot better. And now I don’t need to expect that you will report it again because you are upset and the mods won’t have to tell me to lay off because they feel bad for you.

Seriously Andy did you think at any point in YET ANOTHER delusional rant that I thought you did anything but try to ****post and validate yourself? I’ve been saying this for years. Do you know how many people are having a laugh at you right now? But thanks for confirming to me that you are delusional and pretentious enough to try to make some nonsensical point with your posting behavior that ran you off to a new account. At least you are self aware and we can stop pretending you are the victim you always like to play as.

Thank you so much. I already screen shotted this and am excited for the new material you provided

The only reason you're bringing up his past account is that your original argument sucked. Which makes you look like a cheesey ass whole. Congrats.

 

[lancerman]

That's an ass eating reply. Argue the point or don't argue the point but resorting to cheap shot tactics to win an unwinnable argument doesn't win you any brownie points. It just makes you an ass hole.

I made my point. He didn't accept it and wanted to go on a rant and argue personalities. He got what he wanted. I'm done with him, like others are.. You want to stay on topic, I stayed on topic. You said the Pats were sniffing a SB last year. They weren't. You pivoted to it being about getting an extra Sunday. I brought up multiple points about why Stidham didn't deserve to start (which is apparently a sentiment the coach shares since he is so adamant that Cam is starting again next week and has avoided Stidham starting as much as he possibly could). You replied back with some bs about "you're football IQ showing" so lets call a spade a spade here before people get on a high horse.

You wanted to argue that Stidham should start I said that we have no evidence that he is better than Cam based off his play and can conjecture that the coaches are seeing something in him in practice that are making them think Cam is the better option. Do you want to make the case that Stidham is better? Go into details.

Jets last year. Stidham was put into play clean up to give Brady a break and got benched because he put the game jeopardy. KC this year, he threw multiple interceptions and was barely a step up from Hoyer and this entire board was going off about how they would have won if Cam played. San Francisico both of them had awful games and had the same passer rating, Cam was out there for longer so he looked worse longer. Sunday against the Rams he had the exact same issues that Cam had, Cam actually through better deep balls in that game. Both suffered from a lack of a clean pocket and receivers not getting separation when they needed. Stidham also had better field position on his first drive than Cam ever did in the game. Belichick again gave up on Stidham and asked to him to just hand it off on his third possession.

The only game Stidham played well was when he came in a blow out agains the Chargers who are bottom five team. That same game Cam had two rushing and one passing TD and rushed for about 50 yards. Stidham came out late with a 3 score lead and threw to a stationary Gunner who made a few breaks and got in the endzone. That was pretty much the extent of Stidham's good play as he only had 3 passes. So the best case you can give Stidham is a 3 pass game in garbage time against one of the worst teams in the NFL that Cam already put up 2 TD's on.

Here's the deal, neither QB is the answer. Cam is washed and Stidham has had two years in the league and still looks awful and couldn't beat out. It's a logical fallacy to say "this is bad so this other option HAS to be better". That's not a true statement.