Article: The Patriots' Tight End Problem is Becoming Critical

[captain stone]

I'm glad to see things I was calling out months ago have come to fruition and the team is improving. Meyers as the #1 receiver. Harris as the #1 RB.

A couple more insights:
- Winovich back makes a big difference. Now out of the doghouse from the penalty on JimmyG and missing a snap.
- Dugger played very well. They have him listed wrong at FS. He's a SS, played in the box and also covered their TE. He emerged this week.
- Brooks still has zero business playing on defense
- Izzy still has zero business playing so many snaps at TE. McDaniels needs to play Asiasi when he returns and get this kid into the passing game.

Yep, and Bill & Skippy need to give the new guy Jordan Thomas some snaps against his old team, see what (if anything) he has to offer...

 

[p8ryts]

Yep, and Bill & Skippy need to give the new guy Jordan Thomas some snaps against his old team, see what (if anything) he has to offer...

Bill is figuring out what these guys are good at. Maybe Wino becomes a Bruschi and Uche and Jennings become a Vrabel.

 

[denverpatsfan]

I still cannot believe Izzo made that catch in the rain on Sunday night. Poorly thrown ball and he somehow held on. Are we sure he wasn't replaced?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I still cannot believe Izzo made that catch in the rain on Sunday night. Poorly thrown ball and he somehow held on. Are we sure he wasn't replaced?

It was a nice catch. He's got a nice pace of 1 catch per game and average blocking at best. A total waste of snaps.

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[DropKickFlutie]

The Pats will have to get the rookie TEs involved. The Pats passing attack can't survive just throwing to Meyers 14 times a game.

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[Toofy]

I feel izzo will have a late season breakout... But it would be better to split his snaps with the rookies and see what they offer.

Again understand that cam is super liMited. He has just 1 read - Meyers. If not found he dumps ut to white or burkhead hoping they make a play. So unless we get a real passing qb, we should reserve judgement on tight end.

 

[mgteich]

Izzo is an acceptable #2 TE. We just don't have a #1, or a backup.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I feel izzo will have a late season breakout... But it would be better to split his snaps with the rookies and see what they offer.

Again understand that cam is super liMited. He has just 1 read - Meyers. If not found he dumps ut to white or burkhead hoping they make a play. So unless we get a real passing qb, we should reserve judgement on tight end.

This is exactly why we need to get Asiasi into the passing game. Give Cam more options beyond Meyers. Harry is a waste of space. Izzo is a waste of snaps, 1 catch per game.

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[One-If-By-Sea]

This is exactly why we need to get Asiasi into the passing game. Give Cam more options beyond Meyers. Harry is a waste of space. Izzo is a waste of snaps, 1 catch per game.

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The point was Cam only throws to his first read and recently he has thrown to his outlet a few times, extremely rare that Cam throws to his second or third read. That is why opposing defenses shift to wherever Cam looks. You can play whoever you want at TE, but if they are not his first read or check down, they will never get the ball.

Cam threw a lot to his TE in Carolina because that was his first read. Cam had a lot of bigger receivers at Carolina because Cam could more easily force the ball to them.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The point was Cam only throws to his first read and recently he has thrown to his outlet a few times, extremely rare that Cam throws to his second or third read. That is why opposing defenses shift to wherever Cam looks. You can play whoever you want at TE, but if they are not his first read or check down, they will never get the ball.

Cam threw a lot to his TE in Carolina because that was his first read. Cam had a lot of bigger receivers at Carolina because Cam could more easily force the ball to them.

He seemed to throw a lot to Greg Olson, Steve Smith, McCaffrey. That's 3 targets not 1. No need to pigeon hole Cam as some kind of QB. I think McDaniels is calling plays that restricts what Cam can do.

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[One-If-By-Sea]

He seemed to throw a lot to Greg Olson, Steve Smith, McCaffrey. That's 3 targets not 1. No need to pigeon hole Cam as some kind of QB. I think McDaniels is calling plays that restricts what Cam can do.

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Not pigeon holing anyone. Just noting what most of the film reviews that have been posted show. Cam can throw to different guys as long as he has different 1st reads. Like the pass that went to Izzo last game, Izzo was the first read (that was a play Brady discussed with Belichick on the ESPN show). As Cam gets more comfortable with the Patriots system hopefully his reads will expand.

Maybe you don't visit the threads where the film review is posted or read other sites where film is reviewed. I am no film expert or Xs and Os guy like some here. I am only restating what has been posted.

 

[Wordsmyth]

I want to see Asiasi and Richards unleashed.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Not pigeon holing anyone. Just noting what most of the film reviews that have been posted show. Cam can throw to different guys as long as he has different 1st reads. Like the pass that went to Izzo last game, Izzo was the first read (that was a play Brady discussed with Belichick on the ESPN show). As Cam gets more comfortable with the Patriots system hopefully his reads will expand.

Maybe you don't visit the threads where the film review is posted or read other sites where film is reviewed. I am no film expert or Xs and Os guy like some here. I am only restating what has been posted.

I've seen them but I think they are highly misleading. You can also pull up Brady tape from last year and highlight how he supposedly missed open receivers. Plus the timing on some of the "open" clips isn't even true in some cases. I don't buy the argument that Cam can't read defenses well. Take away his covid weeks and he's like a 75% completion passer ....

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[One-If-By-Sea]

I've seen them but I think they are highly misleading. You can also pull up Brady tape from last year and highlight how he supposedly missed open receivers. Plus the timing on some of the "open" clips isn't even true in some cases. I don't buy the argument that Cam can't read defenses well. Take away his covid weeks and he's like a 75% completion passer ....

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Yes I think Cam has a marginally higher completion % than his historical %. But a % completion is different than a QB that goes with their first read. You moved the goalposts.

I am shocked to hear you note that because a high completion % is based on Cam, a successful running attack (play action passing), and great play calling. I did not think you would ever recognize that JM had a great game plan against the Ravens. Maybe you are softening on your JM hate/madness?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes I think Cam has a marginally higher completion % than his historical %. But a % completion is different than a QB that goes with their first read. You moved the goalposts.

I am shocked to hear you note that because a high completion % is based on Cam, a successful running attack (play action passing), and great play calling. I did not think you would ever recognize that JM had a great game plan against the Ravens. Maybe you are softening on your JM hate/madness?

it only took 9 games to figure out that running 40 times, starting Meyers, starting Harris, was good; something I was saying for months. McD is slow. Better late than never. He still has zero clue about tight ends. And still forces wasted snaps if he can to Harry, Michel, Izzo. If Belichick ever leaves, this franchise is absolutely screwed if McD takes over.

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[One-If-By-Sea]

it only took 9 games to figure out that running 40 times, starting Meyers, starting Harris, was good; something I was saying for months. McD is slow. Better late than never. He still has zero clue about tight ends. And still forces wasted snaps if he can to Harry, Michel, Izzo. If Belichick ever leaves, this franchise is absolutely screwed if McD takes over.

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Glad to see you are consistent.

And I agree with you completely, if only BB had hired you instead of JM the offense would have improved and developed faster. Maybe the Pats would be 6-3 if JM would only read PatsFans

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Glad to see you are consistent.

And I agree with you completely, if only BB had hired you instead of JM the offense would have improved and developed faster. Maybe the Pats would be 6-3 if JM would only read PatsFans

pats are 2-0 playing this way instead of the crap 0-4 streak before. Results are results. McD is getting totally exposed without Brady. Without Belichick we’d have McD’s league worst St Louis offense over here.

 

[p8ryts]

This is exactly why we need to get Asiasi into the passing game. Give Cam more options beyond Meyers. Harry is a waste of space. Izzo is a waste of snaps, 1 catch per game.

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Huh? I thought we won the game. Must have missed the ending.

 

[Wozzy]

I've seen them but I think they are highly misleading. You can also pull up Brady tape from last year and highlight how he supposedly missed open receivers. Plus the timing on some of the "open" clips isn't even true in some cases. I don't buy the argument that Cam can't read defenses well. Take away his covid weeks and he's like a 75% completion passer ....

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Completion percentage isn't an all encompassing stat. Volume, yards per attempt, TD's, INT's and turnovers... these things matter as well when tabulating and measuring QB passing.

I'm not going to knock Cam when he's made incremental improvements, but I need to see it continue under optimal passing conditions and against better D's before I believe in a turnaround. Cam has thrown the 30th fewest passes in the NFL this season. If the team is afraid to let him throw and limits his throwing then they can protect his accuracy stats... it doesn't make him good.

He is a career 60% passer who throws almost as many INT's as he does TD's, he also fumbles a lot, he has played in 132 games and has a combined 170 turnovers between INT's and Fumbles.. Also his "accuracy" is largely created by scheme, rolling him out, using RPO, check downs, creating short manageable throws... all that goes out the window against good defenses and without practice to scheme a game plan he is useless.

Good/great defenses have the personnel to stuff the run and still cover. They don't have to commit to eight in the box, they can use four or five and a spy. They can contain Cam and force him to make throws from the pocket, when asked to be a traditional passer Cam has never been good. It's not our weapons if this is a career long problem. It was a problem when the Broncos did it to him in the Super Bowl in 2015 and when he's had his best collection of weapons.

I expected Cam to be where he is now but sooner in the season, I expected at least Matt Cassel like efficiency with better legs and size to run with... a game manager. He is taking a long time to develop, he what he is. If he continues to improve, perhaps he can be the Ryan Fitzpatrick bridge guy to the draft pick they make next offseason. But to this point he is the biggest reason the offense is ranked 25th in points per drive.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I still cannot believe Izzo made that catch in the rain on Sunday night. Poorly thrown ball and he somehow held on. Are we sure he wasn't replaced?

Lol I remember thinking the same thing. I said "holy **** he caught it!!!"