What trade moves should the Patriots make before the deadline?

[Uptown]

 

[JayNM]

Cap space is a means to building a competitive team and not something inherently valuable by itself. Trading away great players who are just entering their prime when there is no financial pressure to do so doesn't help you build a competitive team. Especially at foundational positions like the OL.

At least with Gilmore people can bring up his age as an argument even though next year (in his final year) he will be cheap as **** which is usually not the case with veteran deals. With Thuney there is absolutely no reason at all to trade him away over 7m unless the team already has decided that they will not even attempt to extend him next year.

The opportunity cost of finding a replacement and developing that player isn't necessarily worth the amount of money you save. Especially for someone who brings so much flexibility with him and can play all 5 positions at the OL.

Finally, we will be rolling over about 26m into next year where we are projected to have over 70m in cap space. Yeah, some of it will get smaller just by HT and Chung being back on the roster. But the flexibility gained from saving 7m is very marginal relative to the cost of speeding up a crucial decision on moving on from an all pro player.

False.

Liquidity is one of the most important characteristic of any monetary sistem, including the cap space. Liquidity, I.e. having money, can be more valuable than having an asset, because its more manageble and flexible

in other word, it has value by itself.

You are wrong from the start, but everything else seems to be well thought out, albeit in wrong premises.

 

[luuked]

False.

Liquidity is one of the most important characteristic of any monetary sistem, including the cap space. Liquidity, I.e. having money, can be more valuable than having an asset, because its more manageble and flexible

in other word, it has value by itself.

You are wrong from the start, but everything else seems to be well thought out, albeit in wrong premises.

You are confusing the objectives of private companies with those of a sports team in a league that employs a salary cap and the way they handle it.

In the NFL having cap space has only value in so far as it enables you to sign talent (i.e. build a competitive team). There is no other use of that money (i.e. you can't even trade it like in other sports) and since the league also has a salary floor it means you can't just infinitely roll it over. If a team doesn't use the agreed upon amount over an average of 4-5 years (or whatever the exact number is) the difference will be distributed directly to its players.

 

[JayNM]

You are confusing the objectives of private companies with those of a sports team in a league that employs a salary cap and the way they handle it.

In the NFL having cap space has only value in so far as it enables you to sign talent. There is no other use of that money (i.e. you can't even trade it like in other sports) and since the league also has a salary floor it means you can't just infinitely roll it over. If a team doesn't use the agreed upon amount over an average of 4-5 years (or whatever the exact number is) the difference will be distributed directly to its players.

Im sorry

I did not know that the NFL was a NGO

All those billionaire teams, not private companies tho, they must be charity.

and just to put this to bed "In the NFL having cap space has only value in so far as it enables you to sign talent."

thank you for literally spelling out why having cap space has value by itself in the NFL.

Let's see if matches to liquidity?

"Liquidity refers to the ease with which an asset, or security, can be converted into ready cash without affecting its market price."

hmm, i guess it does... Having more cap space means that we can explore more talented option

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

 

[lancerman]

I’m

You are confusing the objectives of private companies with those of a sports team in a league that employs a salary cap and the way they handle it.

In the NFL having cap space has only value in so far as it enables you to sign talent (i.e. build a competitive team). There is no other use of that money (i.e. you can't even trade it like in other sports) and since the league also has a salary floor it means you can't just infinitely roll it over. If a team doesn't use the agreed upon amount over an average of 4-5 years (or whatever the exact number is) the difference will be distributed directly to its players.

A big issue last season was that we didn’t have liquidity. We couldn’t overextend to keep Brady without losing pieces and we couldn’t make moves once he was gone.

It does matter

 

[Wozzy]

Because the trade deadline is coming up next week and BB clearly and unambiguously said that Newton is the starting QB of this team because he is the best player they have.

He is the best QB they have... and why they have no QB at all. He unambiguously and unequivocally blows, his career is over.

 

[Jimke]

My fear is the Patriots overpay for a player like Sanu. Better they pass on the deadline than do this.

 

[Wozzy]

1. This is not an instant playoff team with a QB

2. Why trade a lot of value to get Ryan when he’s 35 and likely won’t be around in 3-4 years?

A team that needs a QB and is ready to make a run should be going for a short stint with Ryan

Disagree that this isn't an instant playoff team with a good QB. They're serviceable to great everywhere but QB.

Agree they won't trade for a QB. What they should do is sniff around and start looking for next year. There are QB's on practice squads or on the street I'd consider poaching or signing.

Jordan Ta'amu - Chiefs
Mike White - Jets
Reid Sinnett - Dolphins
Luis Perez - XFL

Jordan Ta'amu was the best QB in the XFL and was accurate throwing the ball in college as well, he'd be my first choice for an extended midseason tryout.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDxD7z5wYGA

They don't need Brian Hoyer anymore... hell another game like the last two, go ahead and cut Cam.

 

[luuked]

Im sorry

I did not know that the NFL was a NGO

All those billionaire teams, not private companies tho, they must be charity.

and just to put this to bed "In the NFL having cap space has only value in so far as it enables you to sign talent."

thank you for literally spelling out why having cap space has value by itself in the NFL.

Let's see if matches to liquidity?

"Liquidity refers to the ease with which an asset, or security, can be converted into ready cash without affecting its market price."

hmm, i guess it does... Having more cap space means that we can explore more talented option

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

All I see is that you are just trying to sound smart but don't realize how much of a dumbass circular argument you are making.

You are essentially saying that we should be fine trading AP players like Thuney to save 7m in cap space, because saving that space enables us to explore signing talented players. How about we just keep those talented players in place especially when there is no immediate cap pressure to resolve and the player in question is not some old veteran.

In the end you just confirmed my point that cap space has no value except for building a competitive team. So thanks for that.

 

[luuked]

He is the best QB they have... and why they have no QB at all. He unambiguously and unequivocally blows, his career is over.

That might all be true and lets assume for second that BB is just misleading with his statement. Who would you be interested in ?

 

[lancerman]

Disagree that this isn't an instant playoff team with a good QB. They're serviceable to great everywhere but QB.

Agree they won't trade for a QB. What they should do is sniff around and start looking for next year. There are QB's on practice squads or on the street I'd consider poaching or signing.

Jordan Ta'amu - Chiefs
Mike White - Jets
Reid Sinnett - Dolphins
Luis Perez - XFL

Jordan Ta'amu was the best QB in the XFL and was accurate throwing the ball in college as well, he'd be my first choice for an extended midseason tryout.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDxD7z5wYGA

They don't need Brian Hoyer anymore... hell another game like the last two, go ahead and cut Cam.

Then I can’t agree with you.

We have no WR’s worth anything and they are consistently rated the worst WR Corp in the league. We have no TE’s worth anything or who’s have accomplished anything. We have an RB Corp of Michel who is spotty at best, Berkhead who is decent, and Harris who is a question mark, White is showing some age. Our offensive line is only good if completely healthy and they have no depth which had been an issue the last two seasons.

Our LB Corp is pretty mediocre all things considered.

We have an elite secondary and pretty stout defensive line. But that’s it for true bright spots.

Going after no name QB’s is a worthless endeavor. Do you know how often someone like those guys makes it in the league? Once every 10 years or so. It’s a waste of time when you could just draft someone in the first or second with more potential

 

[luuked]

I’m

A big issue last season was that we didn’t have liquidity. We couldn’t overextend to keep Brady without losing pieces and we couldn’t make moves once he was gone.

It does matter

Which is why repeatedly have pointed to the fact that we are in a totally different situation now with over 26m to roll over into next year and about 70m available on top of that then.

There is no such pressure right now to move on from anyone.

 

[JayNM]

All I see is that you are just trying to sound smart but don't realize how much of a dumbass circular argument you are making.

You are essentially saying that we should be fine trading AP players like Thuney to save 7m in cap space, because saving that space enables us to explore signing talented players. How about we just keep those talented players in place especially when there is no immediate cap pressure to resolve and the player in question is not some old veteran.

In the end you just confirmed my point that cap space has no value except for building a competitive team. So thanks for that.

Nop. Im not saying any of this

Im saying that there is value on having more cap space, bc it allows for flexibility

What you call circular argument, its just you trying to cram in support for your falacious logic

More cap space= more flexibility. It has value by itself, which is the diametrical opposite of what you said for 2 posts and coutning. And I dont need to put words into your mouth, fortunatelly the horse has its mouth bare open

 

[luuked]

Nop. Im not saying any of this

Im saying that there is value on having more cap space, bc it allows for flexibility

What you call circular argument, its just you trying to cram in support for your falacious logic

More cap space= more flexibility. It has value by itself, which is the diametrical opposite of what you said for 2 posts and coutning. And I dont need to put words into your mouth, fortunatelly the horse has its mouth bare open

Thanks. Always a pleasure to explain how things work to you.

 

[JayNM]

Thanks.

You are welcome

EDIT Im too quick for your edits. And Im also too smart for your strawman arguments

 

[lancerman]

Which is why repeatedly have pointed to the fact that we are in a totally different situation now with over 26m to roll over into next year and about 70m available on top of that then.

There is no such pressure right now to move on from anyone.

Which is all the more reason to sell out on the draft and the next two free agency classes instead of being beholden to Thuney and Gilmore in the immediate.

Sometimes it’s a value to know when to rip the bandaid off and realize you aren’t playing for this year or next year but you can set yourself up for 2022-23 instead of hoping you did enough repairs on the old car. This is the time to do a trade in

 

[JayNM]

Which is all the more reason to sell out on the draft and the next two free agency classes instead of being beholden to Thuney and Gilmore in the immediate.

Sometimes it’s a value to know when to rip the bandaid off and realize you aren’t playing for this year or next year but you can set yourself up for 2022-23 instead of hoping you did enough repairs on the old car. This is the time to do a trade in

He is wrong completely and wants to go into specifics to being right

You are not going to find it here

PS and i dont even agree with you, i think we should keep the players lol

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Disagree that this isn't an instant playoff team with a good QB. They're serviceable to great everywhere but QB.

Agree they won't trade for a QB. What they should do is sniff around and start looking for next year. There are QB's on practice squads or on the street I'd consider poaching or signing.

Jordan Ta'amu - Chiefs
Mike White - Jets
Reid Sinnett - Dolphins
Luis Perez - XFL

Jordan Ta'amu was the best QB in the XFL and was accurate throwing the ball in college as well, he'd be my first choice for an extended midseason tryout.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDxD7z5wYGA

They don't need Brian Hoyer anymore... hell another game like the last two, go ahead and cut Cam.

They may sneak into the playoffs with good qb play but saying our wrs/TEs/LBs are serviceable is a stetch. It’s probable we have the worst group at each position right now due to either lack of talent or inexperience. We need a complete overhaul at the wr spot and that could take a while as we need to find these players plus learning the offensive system. I would agree that even with these holes on the team QB is the spot we’re hurting the most. If nothing else if we find our qb of the future next offseason I’ll consider that a win.

 

[luuked]

Which is all the more reason to sell out on the draft and the next two free agency classes instead of being beholden to Thuney and Gilmore in the immediate.

Sometimes it’s a value to know when to rip the bandaid off and realize you aren’t playing for this year or next year but you can set yourself up for 2022-23 instead of hoping you did enough repairs on the old car. This is the time to do a trade in

I don't know how often to repeat myself. I disagree with moving on from Gilmore given how cheap his final year is but I see the point there if you can get a valuable pick in return.

But with Thuney I simply don't get what moving on from him is good for if you have so much cap space. How about keeping an AP level centerpiece of your OL that is just entering his prime instead of using a draft pick / or pay for a FA and hoping you get someone who can fill his shoes ?

We will have somewhere around 70-80m in cap space. How about we pay some of it to him and then use our assets to improve other holes ?

You are asking to create another hole just to get maybe a 3rd round pick in return (which will be gone if you invest that cap space in FA) and save 7m to fill that just created hole.

 

[Froob]

We are not in a cap crunch situation. Salary cap space is here to be able to put together a strong team and Thuney's presence makes the job for whoever ends up starting as QB easier. If they have no internal plans of extending him past this season then it is a different story but I don't see any evidence for assuming this is the case.

Creating cap space for the sake of itself is a pointless exercise.

I don’t agree with that. If we can save like 7 mill and use it on a guy for next year, I think that’s good.

Thuney is a great player though, I definitely want to keep him first and foremost. But if it’s not happening, get a guaranteed pick and save some money. Use it to extend White or JC.