PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Training Camp Day 7

[Ring 6]

Sorry, that's just wrong. If a hypothesis predicts well it doesn't matter what it didn't consider.

A more reasonable criticism of my feeble attempt would be to say I haven't established career performance criteria let alone showed that preseason reception yards is a good predictor of it.

If I were to continue this effort I would likely use something like Prof Football Reference's career "Average Value" measure to quantify performance and see if it can be predicted from preseason data about WR's (or QB's etc).

But I'm not going to bother because I doubt anyone is interested.

No. A hypothesis that randomly predicts something based upon flawed criteria and poorly related examples is a fluke not a legitimate correlation.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, the five largest rushing totals allowed by the Chief's defense occurred without Pennel... coincidence according to you.

The Chiefs defense allowed 158 yards per game rushing without Pennel and 100 yards per game (against better offenses) with him, a remarkable happenstance according to you. Serendipity...

Reid hired 330 pound Pennel for run stops... not because he wanted him to kick field goals, not to catch passes, not to be a lightning quick edge rusher... he wanted run stops and got them with Pennel. Something I unequivocally showed using stats (facts).

330 pound run stoppers don't play a lot, go look at Danny Shelton snap counts.... kickers don't play a lot of snaps either, they're pretty unimportant... until you need a 48 yard field goal in the driving snow to move on in the playoffs, then they're crucial.

Both Pennel and Bennett said they had issues with Bret Bielema, the Pats could have easily gotten by without Cowart, the kid got blown off the ball in the little time he played and the Pats were susceptible to the run after the midpoint because their offense couldn't score and force opponents into passing from behind.

You ignore facts, or attribute them to opinion... facts aren't any less true because you refuse to believe them.

Now I'll move on, feel free not to reply to me in the future, there's no debating a fact ignoring "know-it-all."

Your opinion that pennel playing very little was what made the difference is not a fact.
Did you watch pennel on the field play himself off the roster in New England?
I did. I was his biggest supporter on this board when he was signed. I felt he was a great addition. Then he went out on the field and got pushed around like a rag doll. He may have been the absolute worst defensive player in this team in the preseason.
I wouldn’t like what my coach says to me either if I played like that.
Dude you seriously need to grow up. You get this triggered because someone has a different opinion than you about a backup DT? People disagree. Especially about evaluating players. It’s life. Relax. No one is going to take away your cookies.

 

[Wozzy]

Your opinion that pennel playing very little was what made the difference is not a fact.
Did you watch pennel on the field play himself off the roster in New England?
I did. I was his biggest supporter on this board when he was signed. I felt he was a great addition. Then he went out on the field and got pushed around like a rag doll. He may have been the absolute worst defensive player in this team in the preseason.
I wouldn’t like what my coach says to me either if I played like that.
Dude you seriously need to grow up. You get this triggered because someone has a different opinion than you about a backup DT? People disagree. Especially about evaluating players. It’s life. Relax. No one is going to take away your cookies.

I saw Gerrard Warren, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Alan Branch and others come into training camp fat and need time to get into game shape, which often overlapped into the regular season. The game was different in the early 2000s obviously and run stoppers were more important. But in 2018 when the Pats revived the power run game on their way to a championship other teams have since adopted the same philosophy; 49ers, Ravens, Titans.

The run game is in vogue once again and run stoppers are necessary. I get BB's reticence to carry more than Shelton, especially with the torrid start his defense erupted with, but at the end of the day the offense never left the launch pad and opponents weren't forced to pass and it bit them in the ass.

Triggered has nothing to do with anything, you didn't elicit an emotion from me. I can point out how you (or anyone) is wrong without much fuss. Facts aren't malleable, they don't only count when you're making them. The Chiefs were a better team and a better run stopping defense with Pennel, the Patriots would have been as well. Period.

 

[Kasmir]

No. A hypothesis that randomly predicts something based upon flawed criteria and poorly related examples is a fluke not a legitimate correlation.

That's not even wrong, so there's no point in continuing this conversation.

 

[Ring 6]

I saw Gerrard Warren, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor, Alan Branch and others come into training camp out of shape and need time to get into game shape, which often overlapped into the regular season. The game was different in the early 2000s obviously and run stoppers were more important. But in 2018 when the Pats revived the power run game on their way to a championship other teams have since adopted the same philosophy; 49ers, Ravens, Titans.

The run game is in vogue once again and run stoppers are necessary. I get BB's reticence to carry more than Shelton, especially with the torrid start his defense erupted with but at the end of the day the offense never left the launch pad and opponents weren't forced to pass and it bit them in the ass.

Triggered has nothing to do with anything, you didn't elicit an emotion from me. I can point out how you (or anyone) is wrong without much fuss. Facts aren't malleable, they don't only count when you're making them. The Chiefs were a better team and a better run stopping defense with Pennel, the Patriots would have been as well. Period.

When you respond to someone you weren’t speaking to who is having a different conversation to whine your argument, you are triggered. By definition.
There is literally no fact that says the patriots would have been better or worse with pennel. The closest thing is Bill belichicks belief that they wouldn’t. I’ll take that over your opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

That's not even wrong, so there's no point in continuing this conversation.

Of course that’s not wrong.

 

[Wozzy]

When you respond to someone you weren’t speaking to who is having a different conversation to whine your argument, you are triggered. By definition.
There is literally no fact that says the patriots would have been better or worse with pennel. The closest thing is Bill belichicks belief that they wouldn’t. I’ll take that over your opinion.

The Chiefs have a ring on their finger and he played well, so I'll take that as a validation Pennel's signing was correct.

The Pats D couldn't stop the run and Byron Cowart wasn't the answer so they were clearly wrong, they were wrong to take a chance on AB and not draft a TE... so believe it or not, it happens.

I responded to someone else because your ears are stuffed with cotton and facts bounce off your chest like bullets off superman.

 

[Ring 6]

The Chiefs have a ring on their finger and he played well, so I'll take that as a validation Pennel's signing was correct.

I disagree with your OPINION that pennel is the reason they won the Sb.

The Pats D couldn't stop the run and Byron Cowart wasn't the answer so they were clearly wrong, they were wrong to take a chance on AB and not draft a TE... so believe it or not, it happens.

The patriots had the best defense in the nfl.
Cowart was behind Shelton, guy and Butler, as pennel would have been. And cowart was also injured.

I responded to someone else because your ears are stuffed with cotton and facts bounce off your chest like bullets off superman.

Triggered.
I disagree with you. I disagree with your explanation. You need to grow up and learn that people disagree with you and just because you think you are right when you are not they aren’t going to change their mind because if your weak argument.
Have better opinions and/or better arguments rather than shooting the messenger.

 

[fnordcircle]

Anyone seen "What We Do In The Shadows?" - specifically the TV show?

At this point I think Andy is one of those energy vampires but he feeds via online arguments.

 

[Love The Drake]

Anyone seen "What We Do In The Shadows?" - specifically the TV show?

At this point I think Andy is one of those energy vampires but he feeds via online arguments.

Amazing show
His name is Colin something

 

[Wozzy]

I disagree with your OPINION that pennel is the reason they won the Sb.


The patriots had the best defense in the nfl.
Cowart was behind Shelton, guy and Butler, as pennel would have been. And cowart was also injured.

Triggered.
I disagree with you. I disagree with your explanation. You need to grow up and learn that people disagree with you and just because you think you are right when you are not they aren’t going to change their mind because if your weak argument.
Have better opinions and/or better arguments rather than shooting the messenger.

I never said "the" reason, he was a big reason... especially in light of Chris Jones injury.

And yeah, I'm triggered because facts can't dissuade you.

You lead a rich fantasy life.

 

[fnordcircle]

Amazing show
His name is Colin something

Colin Robertson. Colin is an interesting name. Remind me to send you a link to a politico article about the origins of the Colin name. You know a lot of names like Colin have different meanings depending on which culture you believed originated the name. His last name is darn interesting too, because it means Robert's son to some people but I'm not sure which Robert they could mean. There are a lot of famous Roberts out there, though. I could spend all night talking about my favorite Robert but I want to continue the Q-tip debate.

 

[Ring 6]

I never said "the" reason, he was a big reason... especially in light of Chris Jones injury.

And yeah, I'm triggered because facts can't dissuade you.

You lead a rich fantasy life.

You aren’t giving facts you are giving opinions. And your opinions aren’t even related to the real issue. How he did or didn’t play in a handful of snaps in January does not impact the decision made in August.
Did you watch him play in August?
How he played is subject to opinion but virtually every single person that watched him knew he would be cut. Let’s say he played great in January, do you expect belichick to time travel to see that?

But ultimately you made an argument and I find it weak. You did nothing to provide any information I was unaware of, and added nothing. You call it fact, but there is nothing in there that is a fact. It’s your opinion he played well and belichick should have known it because something something something.
I do not agree. He stunk in camp badly and deserved to be cut. You seem to think he stunk in camp badly but deserved a job.
I disagree. Get over it. People disagree.

By all means if you cannot get over that people disagree about things, you can post what you think are facts that are supposed to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that e wry one in the world must accept your opinion but you would only be embarrassing yourself.

How about you just have a beer abd do better next time?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

One vote for @Wozzy

He’s 100% correct.

Fact.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's where we disagree. In what world is BB going to pay a wr3/wr4 6.5 million?

He could have had Danny "Playoff" Amendola for 70% of that.

Guess you missed when BB paid Chad Johnson like $5.5M for like 6 games and Johnson was the 5th WR.

So, you can disagree, but history is against you.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Adalius Thomas is a likely example - on pure talent alone he was probably one of the best LBs the Pats ever signed, but he simply wasn't a fit for a myriad of other reasons unrelated to pure athletic talent.

Seemed like he was over playing after he broke his arm in '08.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I see the legend of Mike Pennel lives on.

 

[Family]

Guess you missed when BB paid Chad Johnson like $5.5M for like 6 games and Johnson was the 5th WR.

So, you can disagree, but history is against you.

Completely different situation.

The Pats didn't trade for Chad with the intention of him being a 5th WR, but once they did they were on the hook for 4.7 of the 5.7 contract whether cut or not.

They are on the hook for ZERO of Sanu's contract in cap money if he's cut.

Chad Johnson

 

[captain stone]

I see the legend of Mike Pennel lives on.

Yep...2-game suspension for "substances of abuse," whatever that means...Are they really still testing for weed?