N'Keal Harry's Production

[Drunken Cicerone]

Hmm, i smell a Troll

Calm down Gordy. It was a tongue in cheek response to some mild overreactions

 

[gitgronked82]

Our offense is SOO slow.

Michel- SLOW, no explosion. Can't outrun DEs to the outside
Burkhead- PAINFULLY SLOW
Sanu- Slow
White- Slow
Edelman- creates separation but not from top speed
Harry- Slow
Meyers- Slow
Tight Ends- Embarrassingly slow

We need some SPEED in the open field this offseason!!

Wouldn't really call Meyers or White slow. White definitely quicker than fast, but still not sure i'd say slow. Dorsett is definitely important, though.

To be fair, what speed did we really have last year that I'm forgetting? Patterson isn't THAT fast imo. Very good overall athlete, but I don't know that he has great straight line speed. That team put up a lot of points down the stretch.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Wouldn't really call Meyers or White slow. White definitely quicker than fast, but still not sure i'd say slow. Dorsett is definitely important, though.

To be fair, what speed did we really have last year that I'm forgetting? Patterson isn't THAT fast imo. Very good overall athlete, but I don't know that he has great straight line speed. That team put up a lot of points down the stretch.

Patterson is very fast

 

[Patjew]

I hope they keep throwing to the flat 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. I love those guaranteed loss of yards plays.

 

[mgteich]

I would say that this is the hope for a player picked at 32. Many, many WR's picked in the first round (certainly late in the first round) never become solid starters for 4-5 years.

I am happy if he is a solid starter for 4-5 years. That is what (historically) the expectations should be for people picked at #32.

It is not like he is some kind of blue chip player that is a guaranteed success.

 

[mgteich]

Watson is embarrassingly SLOW?

Our offense is SOO slow.

Michel- SLOW, no explosion. Can't outrun DEs to the outside
Burkhead- PAINFULLY SLOW
Sanu- Slow
White- Slow
Edelman- creates separation but not from top speed
Harry- Slow
Meyers- Slow
Tight Ends- Embarrassingly slow

We need some SPEED in the open field this offseason!!

 

[gitgronked82]

Patterson is very fast

ok, fair. not convinced he's faster than dorsett. and that's also partially negated by the fact that he simply wasn't on the field that much. Plus, he isn't really deep threat like that. I remember his catch against Miami. Not too many other deep balls.

I just don't our personnel was that much more built for downfield shots last year, unless you count a gronk fade/seam. But that's a different type of play that isn't really based on pure speed.

 

[ALP]

I think its fair to say at this point in time Harry is an absolute bust that will set this franchise back decades.

that's it?!?

i'm pretty sure harry is going to magically make our lombardi trophies dissapear and rewrite history

hopefully we get to hold on to at least some of them

 

[pats_premi]

I think
1) Meyers has reached his ceiling. I don’t think he going to get any faster, stronger, more reliable. He is probably headed towards being game day inactive.
2) Harry is not going to get a good separation from the defenders, but he may be able to use his big frame to catch short and intermediate passes.
3) 4.29 speed is wasted on Dorset. He is not a deep threat, just 20-30 reception guy.
4) Sanu - is the second best receiver, but being wasted on punt returns.
5) Gunner is the most explosive and reliable receiver after Edelman. I hope they continue to use him.

 

[LJRomanoff]

I think its fair to say at this point in time Harry is an absolute bust that will set this franchise back decades.

Did someone drop you on your head as a baby?

 

[rochrist]

He’s probably not going to be any good. Hopefully he can use his size and grab some jump balls over smaller defensive backs but he’s likely a future Pats draft lolcow

Clearly, Belichick is an idiot!

 

[rads2005]

I think
1) Meyers has reached his ceiling. I don’t think he going to get any faster, stronger, more reliable. He is probably headed towards being game day inactive.
2) Harry is not going to get a good separation from the defenders, but he may be able to use his big frame to catch short and intermediate passes.
3) 4.29 speed is wasted on Dorset. He is not a deep threat, just 20-30 reception guy.
4) Sanu - is the second best receiver, but being wasted on punt returns.
5) Gunner is the most explosive and reliable receiver after Edelman. I hope they continue to use him.

Meyers is a rookie. He'll definitely get stronger and will probably gain a quarter step physically and a quarter step in understanding the offense and game, thus being able to react and move quicker.

Who knows with Harry. I couldn't tell anything. I was a little disappointed he didn't jump out at me on the "eye" test, but I have a pretty amateur eye. By all accounts Harry works hard and has a little something based on his college highlights. Plaxico Burress had some good years and ran a 4.59 and Anquan Boldin ran a 4.71. It was a decent pick at 32. I'm encouraged that Sanu called Harry "special," although I remember getting excited reading an article that quoted Aqib Talib as saying both Aaron Dobson and Kenbrell Thompkins had "it."

Your point on Dorsett is the only one I kinda agree with. He timed as exceptional speed at 4.29, but doesn't seem to quite play to that speed. He just seems kinda weak too, when I remember reading his scouting report from somewhere that he was feisty and fought for balls.

Sanu will be fine as the Pats figure out how to integrate both him and Edelman into the offense. Both are slot starters. That can't be super common and easy to figure out.

I wish Belichick hadn't cut Josh Gordon. There's a good shot that Gordon gets healthier and back to last year, when he had some nice deeper catches. If nothing else, having Gordon run routes out there instead of Meyers or Dorsett is an upgrade. I guess if it's true he was habitually late, it's a difficult choice. His teammates all seemed to like him though.

Do people agree Gunner is "explosive" and "reliable?" Every time I see him run a punt back, his lack of explosion and speed seems obvious to me. Looks small, slow, and average.

 

[PScottman]

I must have atonement issues for something I did otherwise I wouldn't come back to these two or three times a week "Wide Receivers have always, will always, and must always be the center of the Patriots football universe for them to win anything" forum posts.

 

[varjao]

3 catches on 4 targets, I don't recall this missed one I thought he was 100% but anyway, it was a tough game, on the road, offense not working, under pressure. I take it. There's not a lot to read from this game other than have the kid out there losing his nfl virginity, the fact that he didn't lay an egg under the lights is a positive for me.

 

[luuked]

He just seems kinda weak too, when I remember reading his scouting report from somewhere that he was feisty and fought for balls.

??

Like 80% of his touchdowns or receptions are him fighting through contact or circus catches.

I wish Belichick hadn't cut Josh Gordon. There's a good shot that Gordon gets healthier and back to last year, when he had some nice deeper catches. If nothing else, having Gordon run routes out there instead of Meyers or Dorsett is an upgrade. I guess if it's true he was habitually late, it's a difficult choice. His teammates all seemed to like him though.

The problem with this is that BB disagrees with your opinion. And he was behind Dorsett even when healthy this year which makes sense because Dorsett is overall a more flexible WR and can do more things.

Is he as good at contested 50/50 balls ? No. Are those a regular part of our offense ? No.

The bulked up version of Gordon just had no place in this offense and him being late just accelerated his departure from February into October.

 

[supafly]

WR: Out of the three new WRs who are active on gameday, Jakobi Meyers is the most knowledgeable one as it pertains to familiarity within the offense. That’s a pretty big freaking deal. Brady is now hand-holding both Sanu AND Harry, and Meyers isn’t exactly a seasoned vet out there. Brady is now trying to teach three different WRs who are active on gameday and seeing reps. I hope there was a good reason for not being able to put up with Josh Gordon for another couple of months as we now move into week twelve. Even if he wasn’t setting the league on fire, he was on par with guys like Sanu, Meyers, and Harry, and at least knew where to be and what to do. We’ve seen Brady babysit in the months of July—August—September—October—but usually not this deep into the season, and definitely not with a handful of guys at the same time.

RB: Michel is behind a step, maybe two, and it’s probably his knee issues combined with poor OL play and lack of blocking from the TEs. Burkhead just isn’t a guy who’s going to succeed running the ball 15 times a game. White is a change of pace back who’s good for 15 yards a game. The new guy either isn’t comfortable with his blitz assignment pickups, or just doesn’t show “it” during practice enough to justify being active and getting opportunities.

FB: They are down to (at least) their 3rd string fullback, who also happens to be a linebacker. And that linebacker also happens to be Elandon Roberts. Enough said. This is a major downgrade in blocking and negativity affects the running game.

TE: These guys are invisible. LaCosse is terrible at both receiving and blocking. Izzo isn’t proving to be a good blocking end, at least from what I can see from watching the games at home. They’re almost a waste of roster spots. Not really, but getting close. Watson is finally starting to be used as a downfield receiver, which is encouraging.

OL: injuries have taken their toll, on both the starters and even some of the backups (Cajuste, Froholdt). Newhouse isn’t very good and both Cannon and even Mason have looked hurt at times. Karras hasn’t looked terrible, but he’s a downgrade from David Andrews. Hopefully, Wynn plays well and stays healthy.

TL:dr version—we’re all pinning our hopes on Isaiah Wynn to improve every position on that side of the ball.

 

[luuked]

Out of the three new WRs who are active on gameday, Jakobi Meyers is the most knowledgeable one as it pertains to familiarity within the offense. That’s a pretty big freaking deal. Brady is now hand-holding both Sanu AND Harry, and Meyers isn’t exactly a seasoned vet out there. Brady is now trying to teach three different WRs who are active on gameday and seeing reps.

It is not Brady teaching them but the coaching staff for the most part. I don't know where this mental image comes from that Brady is somehow responsible to develop WRs. He does his reads pre-snap or post-snap on option routes based on the playbook. People always seem to say that receivers need to learn to be on the same page as Brady but what is more correct is that they need to do as the offensive playbooks asks them to do.

I hope there was a good reason for not being able to put up with Josh Gordon for another couple of months as we now move into week twelve. Even if he wasn’t setting the league on fire, he was on par with guys like Sanu, Meyers, and Harry, and at least knew where to be and what to do.

No he was not on par with players like Sanu because he was not physically able to run the same inside routes with the same level of precision. When was the last time you saw him run a crossing pattern ? Hell, they started to use Meyers over Gordon on those and inside sit routes.

I don't remember Gordon showing any major flexibility in terms of his usage through this entire year. Unfortunately be turned into a progress stopper for younger players behind him and I understand the decision to cut the cord early to give them a boost in their development.

These guys are invisible. LaCosse is terrible at both receiving and blocking.

LaCosse has been dealing with injuries the entire season so far. While I agree with the first sentence that they have been invisible I don't see how you can make any judgement on his blocking or receiving when he barely got any chance so far to do any of it.


Bottomline is that the team has hit the reset button on the offense recently and now will have about 2 months to find something that works until the playoffs start. They will most probably end up #1 or #2 seed depending on how some tight 50/50 situations play out.

There is no elimination game that ends the season coming up for a while. We will see how they look when the really meaningful games start.

 

[patriot1136]

How do you feel about Harry vs. the Cowboys? Seems like he matches up well, as does our offense. Cowboys weak spot is in the secondary. I think Edelman lights them up, but I could see Harry being effective as well.

 

[notex]

3 catches on 4 targets, I don't recall this missed one I thought he was 100% but anyway, it was a tough game, on the road, offense not working, under pressure. I take it. There's not a lot to read from this game other than have the kid out there losing his nfl virginity, the fact that he didn't lay an egg under the lights is a positive for me.

I think it was somewhat of a throw-away out of bounds

 

[Ladypatsfan]

How do you feel about Harry vs. the Cowboys? Seems like he matches up well, as does our offense. Cowboys weak spot is in the secondary. I think Edelman lights them up, but I could see Harry being effective as well.

All of these wonderful things will happen only if the O-Line shows up and BLOCKS.
Otherwise, Brady will have no time to get the ball to Edelman so that he can light up that secondary. Sadly, Brady is going to have to take the hits and make plays. If he is injured, that's to bad Injuries are part of the game.