Criticizing Belichick the GM

[Betterthanmost]

Six rings. Who really cares what the idiots claim. What other coach/GM has six rings?

The goal was 12 or more rings, did he get there? The answer is obviously no, but can he? Internet GMs like myself just want to help him draft better after we see that a player he didn't draft is doing very well in year two or more. His crystal ball sucks, he needs to be able to predict the future better. Is that too hard to ask BB the GM?

 

[PScottman]

Mason and Thuney are good players
2 guards though are your best players you’ve gotten in a combined 5 drafts?

Wino looks like a major player, that’s good we needed someone from this class to step up

Sony is so mediocre, passed up on Chubb
Wise stinks
JC Jackson went undrafted so doesn’t count, he is terrific though
Jones undrafted again doesn’t count

Not one decent skill position player from the past 5 drafts? Unless you count Sony, who I am not impressed with long term at all. And we passed up on his far superior generational talented college teammate.


What about all the misses? Check rounds 1-3 in 2015-2019. A ton of misses. Non contributors, injured players

B.B. drafted Brady, and 5 superstars from the 2009-2013 drafts that paved the way for these titles.

Long term we could be in trouble when Brady retires

The difference remains in the expectation management level. Does BB place the same emphasis on post-draft results by draft slot or simply by whether or not the player contributes to the overall team?

I think many fans think every #1 draft pick MUST produce hall of fame numbers (or similar). I'm not sure BB and the draft team think that way, nor are they afraid of cutting ties regardless of draft position.

Let's twist the conversation even more...does a team have more flexibility over the long term if a first round pick plays like a solid, but not spectacular starter and an UDFA plays like the same when you negotiate their second contract? Particularly if you go out and use another draft pick on a guy like Van Noy who is on a really good team friendly contract as well?

More fantasy sports culture infiltrating real life. Someone else already said - the draft is simply one way of collecting talent (and in two ways as BB will absolutely sacrifice draft capital for established young players with time left on their rookie deals or vets near the end with maybe one more run left in them).

The draft is overly treated as "THE way" and slavishly to a mantra that #1s must play like HOFs where in the Patriots realm it's often just as likely that 6th, 7th and UDFAs will play like starters balancing out the equation.

 

[goheels22002]

On the other hand, and to help make my earlier point about reasonable takes from both sides , one could argue that BB the GM needs to pull the trigger faster on some of those players (nobody should have needed those 2 games in 2018 to figure out that Cyrus Jones wasn't going to work, for example, as he was obviously a bust even back in 2016). Along that path, Dawson's quick hook would be a positive sign.

It's pretty interesting to look back over the Belichick draft years and see how many guys carved out solid careers in the NFL. Many hung around with other teams, and many, sadly , had serious early career injuries that cut short what would have been fine careers - Bryan Stork and Malcolm Mitchell stand out for me. Dominique Easley was a reach at #1 for me with his injury history.

There were misses, of course, but looking at top 4 round selections - those that always stick in year one - it's impressive how many of them played well at the next level.

Interesting that you mention Cyrus Jones - he's still in the league and we'll see him this weekend with the Ravens. He may have been picked too high, but he's carving out a pro career. Dawson may still be a good player. Dawson was selected to a team with good to great veterans in his position group, and there's only so many reps to go around. Defensive back is one of those positions that takes time to develop. When rookies come in the game, QBs target them and usually expose them. They evolve with experience and coaching.

Do you know if there is a place to see analysis by teams' draft picks that compares longevity and production by draft selection in the NFL? I'd like to see production that includes trades of draft picks as well. I just don't have the mind space to sort out who drafts well vs who doesn't. The Ravens always seem to draft players who have good careers.

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[imahobgoblin]

A college offense that incorporates other variations/schemes?? You don't say?

There's multiple threads, articles, clips pulling tons of plays straight put the Pats playbook.

Again straight from NEP playbook








Anyone that actually knows our system will recognize these plays. The idea that he didnt run EP/variations is a flat out lie.

Someone did not read what I wrote. lol.

 

[LJRomanoff]

Dominique Easley was a reach at #1 for me with his injury history.

Calling him a reach may not even be accurate considering he was definitely going at #32 to the Seahawks if the Patriots hadn't taken him at #29.

 

[SBLIII]

Calling him a reach may not even be accurate considering he was definitely going at #32 to the Seahawks if the Patriots hadn't taken him at #29.

He was a bust but when you always draft late you have to take risks. It wasn't a bad pick at that time.

 

[203Pat]

He was a bust but when you always draft late you have to take risks. It wasn't a bad pick at that time.

No but definitely a risky one.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's pretty interesting to look back over the Belichick draft years and see how many guys carved out solid careers in the NFL. Many hung around with other teams, and many, sadly , had serious early career injuries that cut short what would have been fine careers - Bryan Stork and Malcolm Mitchell stand out for me. Dominique Easley was a reach at #1 for me with his injury history.

There were misses, of course, but looking at top 4 round selections - those that always stick in year one - it's impressive how many of them played well at the next level.

Interesting that you mention Cyrus Jones - he's still in the league and we'll see him this weekend with the Ravens. He may have been picked too high, but he's carving out a pro career. Dawson may still be a good player. Dawson was selected to a team with good to great veterans in his position group, and there's only so many reps to go around. Defensive back is one of those positions that takes time to develop. When rookies come in the game, QBs target them and usually expose them. They evolve with experience and coaching.

Do you know if there is a place to see analysis by teams' draft picks that compares longevity and production by draft selection in the NFL? I'd like to see production that includes trades of draft picks as well. I just don't have the mind space to sort out who drafts well vs who doesn't. The Ravens always seem to draft players who have good careers.

New England Patriots All-Time Draft History | Pro-Football-Reference.com

OK, but just to point out:

Jones is a punt returner, not a positional player. Brandon Tate had himself a 10 year career, because he could return punts and kicks. As for Dawson, he was bad enough that the team drafted high again at his position, and cut him, the very next year.

I can't think of a site that has what you're asking for, offhand. It I recall one, I'll post it.

 

[Danger Zone]

Lets pretend for a moment that Belichick doesnt draft at a position far behind all other teams and has done so for the past 17 years straight. No other team has had to draft so far back in every round.

The thing I think most Belichick sucks as a GM go wrong is grading Belichick on a scale of 100% success rates when the fact of the matter is drafting and determining which college players will make the transition into the NFL is more art and luck than science.

That said, they need to be grading Belichick on a sliding scale of how well he does versus other teams and then it needs to be adjusted for the fact that every team in the NFL has been drafting much earlier than him on average.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Someone did not read what I wrote. lol.

Petrino specifically said he moved away from his traditional offense to fit Jackson’s talents because Jackson could not learn the EP. They tried the whole virtual reality thing over and over, but it did not click.

This is what you wrote above ^^^^. Most likely after reading the b/r article. Anyone familiar w BP/Jackson over that era knows they ran EP variations. If you watched games & understood whats in front of you, you can clearly see him running that offense perfectly fine. Set multiple records. Won a Heisman. He could school you in EP.

Can you please provide the quote/link where BP said Jackson couldn't learn the EP??

Bc as the forum saw I posted clips of Jackson running the same offense/plays we have for years. Its almost identical when you see pullers on passing plays.

So again either you have no idea abt the Pats offense. Or you're clueless abt college football.

Actually in all your post you've demonstrated you nothing abt either.

Edit 1 - still waiting for link. Shouldn't be this hard. Or did you just make **** up??

Edit 2 - still waiting. Link????

Edit 3 - still waiting.

If you're making a claim abt someone you should be able to back it up. This type of **** is all too common on here.

Edit 4 - still waiting @Sliplady only been days.

Again if you're making an accusation, claim against a poster, player, coach, team etc you should be able to back it up w facts.

 

[IndianPat]

Former Patriots CEO San Jankovich passed away today. Patriots were 8-24 under his tenure.

 

[mgteich]

I believe that BB is among the very past at drafting, in the entire NFL.

However, I don't think your argument can possibly be used to judge draft choices other than the first. Just consider that we draft at the TOP of every round, and that we have no firsts except when we trade up. Also, judge the position when drafted, not the round.
THEN, we could be said to be drafting at the Top of every round. The difference between us and say CLE is one pick, a very high first round pick. To compare, compare the rest of the picks from each team.

If we draft 2nd rounders that look like fourth rounders, that just isn't good. If we draft player in the 30's and 40's who can't contribute, that isn't good.

HOWEVER, the reality is that, on balance, Belichick does as well as any other GM.

Lets pretend for a moment that Belichick doesnt draft at a position far behind all other teams and has done so for the past 17 years straight. No other team has had to draft so far back in every round.
.

 

[TheRainMaker]

He was a bust but when you always draft late you have to take risks. It wasn't a bad pick at that time.

No, it was a dumb pick at the time. Taking a guy who shredded his ACL not once, but twice is asking for a bust. And what do you know, he was injured during his time with the Pats.

Everyone and their Mom were screaming Tuitt. Nope.

 

[mgteich]

Are you saying that we used a 2nd to draft a punt returner?

OK, but just to point out:

Jones is a punt returner, not a positional player. Brandon Tate had himself a 10 year career, because he could return punts and kicks. As for Dawson, he was bad enough that the team drafted high again at his position, and cut him, the very next year.

I can't think of a site that has what you're asking for, offhand. It I recall one, I'll post it.

 

[LJRomanoff]

No, it was a dumb pick at the time. Taking a guy who shredded his ACL not once, but twice is asking for a bust.

One can make the argument to draft extremely conservatively as you are suggesting, but if you do you don't get Gronkowski. All draft picks are a balance of risk and reward.

 

[rads2005]

The only one I don’t like is Bill Belichick the 2nd round defensive back scout.

 

[qbno12]

Best thing about BB the coach is if BB the GM screws up, BB the coach can use whoever he has on the roster to the best of their abilities and still win a bunch of games while being a contender.

 

[goheels22002]

OK, but just to point out:

Jones is a punt returner, not a positional player. Brandon Tate had himself a 10 year career, because he could return punts and kicks. As for Dawson, he was bad enough that the team drafted high again at his position, and cut him, the very next year.

I can't think of a site that has what you're asking for, offhand. It I recall one, I'll post it.

My point about Cyrus Jones and Brandon Tate is that in the grand scheme of things there are only 1700 jobs in the NFL, and I have admiration for guys who can carve out a career at this level.
.
My other reaction to your post is that special teams is a critically important piece of the game. It's great these guys have found their niche, but more to the point regarding this thread, BB the GM and BB the coach have always placed a premium on having excellent special teams. I like this year's biggest special teams move drafting the punter Bailey who is a clear upgrade. He needs to keep working on holding for the place kicker, however.

By the way, did you hear Christian Fauria talking about being a backup placekick holder last week? It terrified him that he might be called on. It was interesting to hear him talk about how hard it is, particularly in poor conditions.

 

[goheels22002]

Calling him a reach may not even be accurate considering he was definitely going at #32 to the Seahawks if the Patriots hadn't taken him at #29.

Well, he was a reach in 2014 given his college injury history. Think about this - Dominique Easley would be in his 5th year as a defensive tackle if he hadn't washed out. Given his skill set and size (6'2" 265) he would be a magnificent fit in this defense playing all over the formation.

 

[203Pat]

My point about Cyrus Jones and Brandon Tate is that in the grand scheme of things there are only 1700 jobs in the NFL, and I have admiration for guys who can carve out a career at this level.
.
My other reaction to your post is that special teams is a critically important piece of the game. It's great these guys have found their niche, but more to the point regarding this thread, BB the GM and BB the coach have always placed a premium on having excellent special teams. I like this year's biggest special teams move drafting the punter Bailey who is a clear upgrade. He needs to keep working on holding for the place kicker, however.

By the way, did you hear Christian Fauria talking about being a backup placekick holder last week? It terrified him that he might be called on. It was interesting to hear him talk about how hard it is, particularly in poor conditions.

Do you have the same admiration for the Blaine Gabberts of the world? Drafted high, played terribly as a starter, now floats around the league as a backup?