Gunner Olszewski

[captain stone]

Gunner is going to have an interesting time fielding punts tonight.

Poor bastard.

Also an interesting game tonight for Meyers...We desperately need another target besides Edelman/Gordon/Dorsett, ALL of whom have injury "issues." This could very well be his last game to make an impression.

 

[patfanken]

White was also considered a "who?!" draft pick at the time. He was universally considered an undrafted free agent and had spent his entire college career playing second-fiddle to the likes of Montee Ball and Melvin Gordon (at Wisconsin, a program notorious for producing spectacular NFL busts at running back). He wasn't even a name on anyone's radar except perhaps as a priority free agent type.

Hey, I've hated on him for his first 5 years as a running back. I've almost always hated when they gave him the ball to run other than draws and delays in passing situations. However, for some reason I can't explain, and after 5 years, it seems to me that James is running a little stronger this year. More yards after contact. Another overnight success, many years in the making.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Most likely scenario is that Gunner heads to the practice squad when Harry is designated to return.

My first guess would be Kessler, who won't be active on game days barring injuries.

And, as a side note, when the Pats signed AB, it was Meyers who went to the bench, not Olszewski, in part because Meyers doesn't play STs.

 

[DaBruinz]

White and Michel are average RBs. Yes, that is my opinion. Dion Lewis was exceptional with the Pats too and Shane Vereen was very good and both got contracts that outpaced their ability. Your Ad Hominems aside explain to me how an opinion may be wrong and in this thread many agreed with me on Gunner. Maybe I should look at ST more closely, hence the thread.

I think if Michel and White were in Cleveland playing with Baker Mayfield or in Jax or in Houston you would consider them average. Because they are in NE with Brady and Co., and they win they are viewed as above average then receive big contracts from other teams and guess what, play like average players.

Only stupid one around here, is you, little man.

You should stop using phrases you don't understand. Nothing I said was an Ad Hominem.

An opinion can be wrong when it's based on nothing. An opinion can be wrong when you ignore facts to the contrary. This idea that you have that opinions can't be wrong is laughable.

Here are Shane Vereen's Stats:
Shane Vereen Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Here are James White's Stats:
James White Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 79 games, Vereen had 356 Rushes for 1489 yards (4.18 YPC) and 8 TDs. 221 Receptions for 1865 yards (8.44 YPR) and 11 TDs.

In 67 games, White has 221 rushes for 919 yards (4.15 YPC) and 7 TDs. 270 receptions for 2342 yards (8.67 YPR) and 20 TDs.

Vereen has 3354 Total yards in 79 games (42.46 YPG). White has 3261 Total yards in 67 games (48.67 YPG).

So. How is it that you can say that WHITE is Average but Vereen was "Very Good"?

I've read this thread. The only people "agreeing" are people who's mostly don't have a clue what they are talking about. You'll notice they're the ones with the the most funny's and disagrees from posters who have shown they know what they are talking about.

Sorry, but your comments were and are stupid. And the only "little man" would be yourself since you clearly can't hack someone disagreeing with you. It's why you've thrown your tantrum both in the game day thread and here.

 

[Oswlek]

Hey, I've hated on him for his first 5 years as a running back. I've almost always hated when they gave him the ball to run other than draws and delays in passing situations. However, for some reason I can't explain, and after 5 years, it seems to me that James is running a little stronger this year. More yards after contact. Another overnight success, many years in the making.

You're right that he was terrible for a few years and went down with a gentle gust of wind, but he's been this guy for two years now. You were just too scarred to notice before.

 

[primetime]

My first guess would be Kessler, who won't be active on game days barring injuries.

And, as a side note, when the Pats signed AB, it was Meyers who went to the bench, not Olszewski, in part because Meyers doesn't play STs.

Fair, though I think Meyers has more of a chance of being poached.

 

[DaBruinz]

Most likely scenario is that Gunner heads to the practice squad when Harry is designated to return.

Gunner won't make it to the PS. He'll get claimed by Miami, NYJets, or Redskins..

 

[DaBruinz]

Fair, though I think Meyers has more of a chance of being poached.

He said "Went to the bench". Not "Went to the PS". The Patriots carried 6 WR + Slater when Brown was signed. I could see them doing that again. Remember they have Richards and Kessler as extra pieces right now. I wouldn't be surprised to see JJ Williams push for even more playing time making Richards even more extraneous than he is..

 

[Double TE]

Just a point, if I may butt into your discussion.. There is NOTHING wrong with being an average player in the NFL. 90% of NFL players are "average". I think though "average" is another way of saying "equal". Don't forget in this age you not only have to be a great football player on the college level, you have to be an extraordinary athlete, just to GET to the level of "average" in the NFL.

James White is an EXCEPTIONAL receiver at the RB position. If he had gone to another team that didn't use him in a way that allowed that gift to be emphasized, and forced him to try and be a between the tackles runner, then his career might have been a lot less successful. But that could be said about a LOT of players in the league. Being in the right fit is a key for most players. BTW- James White, like Edelman, is ANOTHER one of those Pats players who is an overnight success....years in the making.

KVN is another player where fit AND time mattered. He was on a bad Detroit team for 3 years just trying to get to be a starter. At the time he was traded he was almost an afterthought. He gets into "the right fit". Add 2+ years of experience "in the system" and you have a guy who many consider the best player (so far) on a really great defense.

Just a thought

I agree 100% with you. Thank you.

 

[Double TE]

You should stop using phrases you don't understand. Nothing I said was an Ad Hominem.

An opinion can be wrong when it's based on nothing. An opinion can be wrong when you ignore facts to the contrary. This idea that you have that opinions can't be wrong is laughable.

Here are Shane Vereen's Stats:
Shane Vereen Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Here are James White's Stats:
James White Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

In 79 games, Vereen had 356 Rushes for 1489 yards (4.18 YPC) and 8 TDs. 221 Receptions for 1865 yards (8.44 YPR) and 11 TDs.

In 67 games, White has 221 rushes for 919 yards (4.15 YPC) and 7 TDs. 270 receptions for 2342 yards (8.67 YPR) and 20 TDs.

Vereen has 3354 Total yards in 79 games (42.46 YPG). White has 3261 Total yards in 67 games (48.67 YPG).

So. How is it that you can say that WHITE is Average but Vereen was "Very Good"?

I've read this thread. The only people "agreeing" are people who's mostly don't have a clue what they are talking about. You'll notice they're the ones with the the most funny's and disagrees from posters who have shown they know what they are talking about.

Sorry, but your comments were and are stupid. And the only "little man" would be yourself since you clearly can't hack someone disagreeing with you. It's why you've thrown your tantrum both in the game day thread and here.

White is very good for the Pats but an average player. Run CMC is exceptional. Alvin Kamara. Zeke Elliott. They are exceptional. I think the system and TB make our players seem better than they are but on other teams these same players would be average in my opinion. That is all I am saying.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree 100% with you. Thank you.

How can you agree with him when he was disagreeing with you?

 

[DaBruinz]

White is very good for the Pats but an average player. Run CMC is exceptional. Alvin Kamara. Zeke Elliott. They are exceptional. I think the system and TB make our players seem better than they are but on other teams these same players would be average in my opinion. That is all I am saying.

Gotta love the spin.. That's no where near what you said originally or in the Bills thread.

Still doesn't explain your BS that Vereen was a "Very Good" player while White is "Average".

 

[Double TE]

How can you agree with him when he was disagreeing with you?

He didn’t

In the Pats system White is very good and Michel is OK. But if you put them in Houston they would not be as highly regarded IMO. System and Brady make them look better than they are. Cases in point are Vereen, Lewis, Branch, Givens, Amendola, Ridley, Blount, etc. They produce much more in NE than in other places. Is that a coincidence or are they average players that excel in the Pats system with the greatest QB ever throwing them the ball?

Antonio Brown is exceptional as is Edelman, they would excel in any system IMO. Others not so much.

 

[Double TE]

Gotta love the spin.. That's no where near what you said originally or in the Bills thread.

Still doesn't explain your BS that Vereen was a "Very Good" player while White is "Average".

I misspoke. I think for NE they were very good and received the big contracts that they did not live up to. That I did say. White would have the same fate IMO if he took big money and say joined Seattle for arguments sake or Indi.

 

[DaBruinz]

He didn’t

In the Pats system White is very good and Michel is OK. But if you put them in Houston they would not be as highly regarded IMO. System and Brady make them look better than they are. Cases in point are Vereen, Lewis, Branch, Givens, Amendola, Ridley, Blount, etc. They produce much more in NE than in other places. Is that a coincidence or are they average players that excel in the Pats system with the greatest QB ever throwing them the ball?

Antonio Brown is exceptional as is Edelman, they would excel in any system IMO. Others not so much.

Yes.. Yes he did. And now you're playing Spin to try to CYA.

Five of the 8 the players you named don't support your case.

Lewis was injured every year prior to joining the Pats and missed time with the Pats. That's not the system.

Givens had to retire after he signed with the Titans because of the knee injury he sustained after 4+ games with them.

LeGarrette Blount doesn't support your claim either. Well, unless you choose to ignore his 1st two years in Tampa and his year in Philly.

Amendola doesn't support your claim. The years he wasn't injured, he put up over 650 yards with St. Louis.

I love how you are changing your tune on Vereen.. Now you're saying it was the Patriots system that made him Very Good.. SMH..

 

[Oswlek]

Leading the league in fair catches has everything to do with the defense and nothing to do with Olszewski himself. Yards per return tends to be dictated by long returns, and he has yet to break a long one. He looks fine. Not the next coming of Devin Hester or Dante Hall, but that's fine.

To your point, three of the players above him in average amassed well over 50% of their total in one return and it's around 40% for another two returners.

Desmond King is the most exaggerated of the first group. A long of 68 yards with six other returns totaling 1 yard. Seven returns, 69 yards. Gronk would be thrilled.

 

[primetime]

To your point, three of the players above him in average amassed well over 50% of their total in one return and it's around 40% for another two returners.

Desmond King is the most exaggerated of the first group. A long of 68 yards with six other returns totaling 1 yard. Seven returns, 69 yards. Gronk would be thrilled.

These are pretty much all rate stats in the NFL though, they're highly skewed. Remove the 99 yard run from Derrick Henry's total last year and loses a full half yard per carry. Honestly coming up with some 'rate less outliers' measurement for these rate stats would give you an idea of how consistent a player is.

Skew is context dependent though. I'd argue that, say, a guy with 7 returns, one of which went for 61 yards and 5 went for 2 yards (so 63 total) has done more for his team than the guy who has 7 returns for exactly 9 yards a piece, even though both have the same average. The reason being a 9 yard punt return probably didn't do a lot for you (that sort of return is usually the result of a punter overkicking his coverage rather than some elite play by the returner) while the 61 yard return is probably a touchdown. On the other hand, I'd say a running back with 7 carries for 9 yards a piece has been better than a guy with 1 61-yarder and 6 for a total of 2 yards because there's more value in consistent gains of 9 yards running the ball; the latter guy probably killed several drives even though he also probably got a long touchdown.

Think for a punt returner you really want splash plays (and no muffs); there's a certain expectation for NFL punt returners that when you do get a chance at a return that you'll get some yardage off it, because you get to make that decision before you catch the ball.

 

[Double TE]

Yes.. Yes he did. And now you're playing Spin to try to CYA.

Five of the 8 the players you named don't support your case.

Lewis was injured every year prior to joining the Pats and missed time with the Pats. That's not the system.

Givens had to retire after he signed with the Titans because of the knee injury he sustained after 4+ games with them.

LeGarrette Blount doesn't support your claim either. Well, unless you choose to ignore his 1st two years in Tampa and his year in Philly.

Amendola doesn't support your claim. The years he wasn't injured, he put up over 650 yards with St. Louis.

I love how you are changing your tune on Vereen.. Now you're saying it was the Patriots system that made him Very Good.. SMH..

AFTER they left the Pats and got bigger contracts those players were not as good as they were with NE.

Why are you so angry? If instead of Michel and White we had Chris Thompson and Mark Ingram, I do not believe the impact would be materially different. You're free to disagree. My initial contention was that aside from Edelman, Brady doesn't have any elite weapons that opposing D Coordinators have to game plan for. They have to plan for the system and open receivers, backs, etc. But if Michel goes down tomorrow and Harris steps in, I do not believe you will see a material difference. If White goes down and Burkhead steps in, I do not believe you will see a material difference. Why does this have you so triggered? Chill.

 

[luuked]

Gunner is going to have an interesting time fielding punts tonight.

Poor bastard.

I like it. A preview for less than ideal conditions in December/January.

 

[TomPatriot]

Nope. He's eleventh in the entire NFL 32.

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats...G&opp=0&sort=8&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

Fox is wrong. What a surprise.

National Football League Stats - by Player Category | NFL.com