Bring in competition at Kicker.

[moosekill]

I have no issue what so ever with them bringing in competition. I just think some of you all are expecting to easily find another kicker who kicks for touch backs every kickoff, never misses an extra point, never misses a field goal under 50 yards, and can hit most 50+ yard field goals, and every single one of them in a high pressure situation.

Those kickers don't exist. The few kickers who are better than Gostkowski right now are on other teams. Most in the league are worse. The reason competition wasn't brought in this year was there wasn't anyone available who was close. I have no doubt that if someone is available next season, or for that matter today, who is better than Gost, he will be in here in a heart beat, one thing Bill is never afraid of is upgrading the team.

 

[TommyD4207]

a few... Two ... but they were in pitt and chi town ... personal paces of horror where shayne graham never did well... so its all excused, right? /s

but honestly, does it matter? No. But it succinctly illustrates the point of fact that everybody can and eventually will be replaced. Graham came in, did a fine job ... its not like scott sisson is waiting in the woods of foxboro to come back and replace gostkowski ... so i do not understand why people are so afraid of the idea of bringing in kicking competition ... Its like Gostkowski is a blue blanket and they are all named linus... "NO WE HAVE STEVEN .... HE IS GREAT ... WE WILL BROOK NO DISSENSION ... THESE ARE FACTS FACTS FACTS ... YOU... YOU... YOU... PINK HATS WHO DONT KNOW ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH STUPENDOUS ME "

Oh the ****ing arrogance of some people in this thread... yeah, well F that ...

People here got short memories... it was just a mere 14 years ago that BB let who most consider the goat kicker walk ... and replaced him with 3. i swear the people defending Gostkowski like there is no tomorrow forget this point ...

iirc they were the same ones who tried to eviscerate me when i stated in the preseason i would have been fine with the team letting him walk or resigning him... but let me repeat the fact that everyone is replaceable.

What has been BB's modus operandi? Better get rid of them One Year Early than One Year Late

Speaking of arrogance. lol

You undermine your own argument in the last few sentences.

Belichick has not a) Released Gostkowski or b) Brought in any competition

So, you know better than the coach. He's got no reason to keep him if he sucks that badly. Surely 85% kickers are just sitting on their sofa, right?

 

[Pape]

Speaking of arrogance. lol

You undermine your own argument in the last few sentences.

Belichick has not a) Released Gostkowski or b) Brought in any competition

So, you know better than the coach. He's got no reason to keep him if he sucks that badly. Surely 85% kickers are just sitting on their sofa, right?

You want to chide me for being arrogant? go ahead. But check yourself. Trying frame this by putting words in my mouth put you in the same place. You know so much better, you feel the need to twist what I said? right on bro

Did I say Gostkowski sucks so badly? No, I did not.

And the last sentence in no way undermines the point that everybody is replaceable. It strengthens the point.

I do not care that BB hasn't done anything in regards with Gostkowski, yet. My Opinion - I would like him to. Because what we are seeing in the kicking game stinks. Bringing in competition never hurts.

 

[Pape]

I have no issue what so ever with them bringing in competition. I just think some of you all are expecting to easily find another kicker who kicks for touch backs every kickoff, never misses an extra point, never misses a field goal under 50 yards, and can hit most 50+ yard field goals, and every single one of them in a high pressure situation.

Those kickers don't exist. The few kickers who are better than Gostkowski right now are on other teams. Most in the league are worse. The reason competition wasn't brought in this year was there wasn't anyone available who was close. I have no doubt that if someone is available next season, or for that matter today, who is better than Gost, he will be in here in a heart beat, one thing Bill is never afraid of is upgrading the team.

No one said it would be easy. But damn man, you guys make it seem impossible,

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

No one said it would be easy. But damn man, you guys make it seem impossible,

Not impossible, but look around the league. The Bucs rookie missed an XP, had another one blocked, and missed a 34 yard FG that would have won the game, and Bruce Arians was quick to say he's not going anywhere. There was reports that Vinatieri was ready to retire after his bad start and Indy talked him out of it. The Falcons cut Matt Bryant earlier in the offseason, presumably to move on, and brought him back right before the season started.

There seems to be a trend of teams sticking with what they have at the moment. So maybe there isn't a plethora of options available right now.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Who could we even bring in? Yes, Gostkowski is in decline but we didn't draft a kicker, we drafted a punter. I'm still surprised that Allen is gone. But Bailey clearly has the better leg. Sad to say it but Gostkowski might be replaced next season. We will likely draft a PK in the 4th or 5th round. I wouldn't even bat an eyelash at a 3rd considering how much BB values special teams play.

 

[moosekill]

The other thing that isn't being mentioned at all. One would think that an aging kicker would start showing his age in the distance of his kicks. Distance doesn't seem to be an issue at all at this point. He seems to be kicking as far as ever, he just is pushing the ball one way or the other. He has a new holder, who was at least partially responsible on one of his misses. Also not sure if you all saw the large section of turf that rolled up during play at Miami. They had a college game the night before and had to fix up the grass that evening/morning. My guess is it was really poor kicking conditions on the field. If you can't plant your kicking foot it is hard to make accurate kicks.

 

[moosekill]

No one said it would be easy. But damn man, you guys make it seem impossible,

Ok, we have page after page showing how good his numbers are, how he compares to other kickers in the league, the struggles other teams are having finding kickers, and you come up with this. No it isn't impossible, but if it was easy don't you think Bill would have brought someone else in.

 

[moosekill]

double post

 

[fair catch fryar]

Kickers are like closers in baseball. It is as much mental as physical. They have peaks and valleys. In Bill I trust to have his finger on the pulse of what is going with his players. We'll see a kicker brought in if BB thinks he needs to and like a lot of kickers in the past that have issues every once in a while, but figure it out to return to old form. I'd rather Gost deal with it now than in December/January.

 

[luuked]

I’m talking about the people saying “well Brady threw a pick in that game!” Brady didn’t play well but did what he needed to (along with an all time Herculean effort by Gronk) on the final drive and we should have been in position to tie it up with an XP instead we had to go for 2. The rest of the team did what it had to in that game. Gostkowski did not.

Are you serious ?

Brady essentially threw a pick 6 around his own redzone, got picked a second time and then could not move the ball AT ALL to the point where towards the end the coaching staff felt it was necessary to go on fourth down instead of kicking a FG because scoring opportunities were a rarity. Collins wasn't able to cover Owens. Twice. The OL could not block **** due to injuries and noise. Running game ? lol Steven Jackson.

But somehow all of this is fine and whatever. But if a XP is missed in the first quarter this is what decides the game. Every one (including the coaching staff) is allowed mistakes that take points of the board or hand them to the other team but the kicker needs to be perfect.

The reality is Ghost had a similarly up (2 FGs made) and down (XP missed) game as EVERYONE involved and is just getting randomly blamed because it is mathematically convenient.

 

[203Pat]

Are you serious ?

Brady essentially threw a pick 6 around his own redzone, got picked a second time and then could not move the ball AT ALL to the point where towards the end the coaching staff felt it was necessary to go on fourth down instead of kicking a FG because scoring opportunities were a rarity. Collins wasn't able to cover Owens. Twice. The OL could not block **** due to injuries and noise. Running game ? lol Steven Jackson.

But somehow all of this is fine and whatever. But if a XP is missed in the first quarter this is what decides the game. Every one (including the coaching staff) is allowed mistakes that take points of the board or hand them to the other team but the kicker needs to be perfect.

The reality is Ghost had a similarly up (2 FGs made) and down (XP missed) game as EVERYONE involved and is just getting randomly blamed because it is mathematically convenient.

With all that said they were still in a position to potentially tie the game at the end. Everyone else's job is much harder than Gostkowski's is so I tend to cut him much less slack. That Broncos defense was an all time great and they were playing on the road so it is to be expected that Brady struggled somewhat. When it counted Brady drove the offense down the field and scored.

Was it all on Gostkowski? Obviously not but extra points should be just about automatic and he has been struggling and struggling in big spots.

 

[luuked]

With all that said they were still in a position to potentially tie the game at the end. Everyone else's job is much harder than Gostkowski's is so I tend to cut him much less slack

And there would have never been a deficit in the first place if Collins sticks on Owen Daniels, or Brady doesn't get fooled by VM dropping into coverage. Or maybe BB doesn't make them go for it on fourth down but actually kicks one of the to FGs or the OL stops the Broncos pass rush for half a second longer.

You can't play the "because of Ghost they were 1 point behind" game and then put your fingers in your ears when others bring up the fact that bad plays by others cost the team multiple times that amount of points.

When it counted Brady drove the offense down the field and scored.

See that is where you are absolutely wrong. It all counts. All 60 minutes. And the offense SUCKED through 59 minutes of the game to the point where they would have gone without a proper TD drive (the Jackson TD came off a Manning lateral fumble right outside the Denver redzone) in its entirety if not for the legendary fourth down heroics of Gronk and Brady.


Both for some reason people blame the kicker who missed a XP in the first quarter and was flawless (including kickoffs) afterwards but for the offense that was even less productive they find excuses because in the last minute of play they finally put a drive together.

There are so many disconnects in your reasoning and confirmation bias just keep rearing its ugly head in there.

Obviously not but extra points should be just about automatic and he has been struggling and struggling in big spots.

94.2% -- which was the league average for XPs in 2015 -- is not "about automatic". It means 1 out of 17 kicks on average will be a miss. On average per game week all over the league you have about 2-3 kicks missed.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

bring a couple guys in and kick the tires, if they suck, just give them the boot

 

[TommyD4207]

You want to chide me for being arrogant? go ahead. But check yourself. Trying frame this by putting words in my mouth put you in the same place. You know so much better, you feel the need to twist what I said? right on bro

Did I say Gostkowski sucks so badly? No, I did not.

And the last sentence in no way undermines the point that everybody is replaceable. It strengthens the point.

I do not care that BB hasn't done anything in regards with Gostkowski, yet. My Opinion - I would like him to. Because what we are seeing in the kicking game stinks. Bringing in competition never hurts.

K, coach. What time's practice?

 

[203Pat]

And there would have never been a deficit in the first place if Collins sticks on Owen Daniels, or Brady doesn't get fooled by VM dropping into coverage. Or maybe BB doesn't make them go for it on fourth down but actually kicks one of the to FGs or the OL stops the Broncos pass rush for half a second longer.

You can't play the "because of Ghost they were 1 point behind" game and then put your fingers in your ears when others bring up the fact that bad plays by others cost the team multiple times that amount of points.



See that is where you are absolutely wrong. It all counts. All 60 minutes. And the offense SUCKED through 59 minutes of the game to the point where they would have gone without a proper TD drive (the Jackson TD came off a Manning lateral fumble right outside the Denver redzone) in its entirety if not for the legendary fourth down heroics of Gronk and Brady.


Both for some reason people blame the kicker who missed a XP in the first quarter and was flawless (including kickoffs) afterwards but for the offense that was even less productive they find excuses because in the last minute of play they finally put a drive together.

There are so many disconnects in your reasoning and confirmation bias just keep rearing its ugly head in there.



94.2% -- which was the league average for XPs in 2015 -- is not "about automatic". It means 1 out of 17 kicks on average will be a miss. On average per game week all over the league you have about 2-3 kicks missed.

I am not saying that was all on Gostkowski, I'm saying it is much harder to find someone to cover TE's and lead game tying drives than it is to kick a 33 yard field goal. Moral of the story is he has been struggling relatively consistently for a year now and whether it is mental or not I don't have a ton of confidence in him.

 

[Deus Irae]

With all that said they were still in a position to potentially tie the game at the end. Everyone else's job is much harder than Gostkowski's is so I tend to cut him much less slack. That Broncos defense was an all time great and they were playing on the road so it is to be expected that Brady struggled somewhat. When it counted Brady drove the offense down the field and scored.

Was it all on Gostkowski? Obviously not but extra points should be just about automatic and he has been struggling and struggling in big spots.

Your argument is absolutely freakin' terrible.

 

[203Pat]

Your argument is absolutely freakin' terrible.

 

[luuked]

Moral of the story is he has been struggling relatively consistently for a year now and whether it is mental or not I don't have a ton of confidence in him.

I am not even sure where you have seen him struggle. This reminds me of how people were talking that Brady was declining because his numbers at times were not as good as in his MVP year (but still top 5-10 in the league). If you compare people to their absolute career seasons then there is no way to go but down.

His FG percentages appropriately take a dive when he has to attempt more 50+ FGs as those are really difficult to hit. If you account for that he has been a steady 92-90% on FGs and only missed one XP last year.

This year he had a slower start so far but that doesn't mean that he won't again end up around his usual career numbers.

If you feel like someone with ~90% on FGs -- which is about 5-6% better than the league average (which boils down to 3-4 kicks) -- is not a very consistent and reliable kicker then I am not sure you will ever be satisfied in your life. Because getting someone who is even better than that is incredibly hard.

Most probably harder than finding many other regular positions on offense and defense.

 

[203Pat]

I am not even sure where you have seen him struggle. This reminds me of how people were talking that Brady was declining because his numbers at times were not as good as in his MVP year (but still top 5-10 in the league). If you compare people to their absolute career seasons then there is no way to go but down.

His FG percentages appropriately take a dive when he has to attempt more 50+ FGs as those are really difficult to hit. If you account for that he has been a steady 92-90% on FGs and only missed one XP last year.

This year he had a slower start so far but that doesn't mean that he won't again end up around his usual career numbers.

If you feel like someone with ~90% on FGs -- which is about 5-6% better than the league average (which boils down to 3-4 kicks) -- is not a very consistent and reliable kicker then I am not sure you will ever be satisfied in your life. Because getting someone who is even better than that is incredibly hard.

Most probably harder than finding many other regular positions on offense and defense.

Maybe you're right and he just has the misfortune of missing kicks in high profile games and that is why it seems like he is struggling and maybe it will all balance out. I guess it is the reverse of Vinatieri where people only recall the clutch kicks and not the misses and maybe If all into that. I can admit when I am wrong.