Bring in competition at Kicker.

[Lavictoire]

What is a fact is that it wasn't the "end of the SB in 2007". 6:49 left of the 3rd quarter and the score was 7-3 New England. That isn't a "must-get-points, must win situation" no matter how you look at it.

That's a pretty tight game halfway through the third quarter. A field goal is huge in that big a game.

 

[Lavictoire]

I'm not a Koolaid drinker, obviously, and I'd still point out that

• Switching from "but XPs" to "But playoffs" to "But 2007" is a way to kill any valid argument you might have.
• Ignoring the current situation (new holder who's learning on the job, backup QB who's still learning QB, nevermind holding) is a way to kill any valid argument you might have.
• Claiming you're looking at his performance with 20/20 vision, while ignoring context and the reality of the new XP distance, is not looking at his performance with 20/20 vision. It's being needlessly biased.

One of the issues here is that we, as Patriots fans, don't pay enough attention to the rest of the league. Every other team "sucks". Every other coach "sucks". Almost every other player "sucks". So, we forget how extraordinary it is to have had about 20 years with

• BB
• TB
• Scar
• 2 kickers, both of whom have been high end at their craft

In the span since the XP was moved, Gost has hit on 130 out of 147 FGAs (88.4%). Justin Tucker, widely considered to be the best kicker in the game, has hit on 145 out of 160 FGAs (90.6%). So, essentially, people are gnashing their teeth over being about a 2% less successful than the best in the game.

There is no question that Gost has struggled more than we would expect he would on XPAs. But, even there, the issue has been largely overblown around here. Again, comparing him to Tucker, Gost is 202 out of 211 (95.7%) and Tucker is 142 out of 143 (99.3). That difference is certainly noticeable, but part of that is the significantly higher number of attempts that Gost has made. It's a difference of 2 more misses on 17 more attempts, per season, which should not have people going as crazy as some of them are.

Or, to put it another way: while I don't claim the following to be in any way definitive, I note that major difference in approach we see on the national level compared to what we see on this board and hear on the local airwaves. I'll post the tweet, understanding that it was from prior to last season but also that it was still included in the article (I take that to mean that it was still valid. If it's not, people can take that up with the story's author), and leave the rest for people to read.



Top 10 kickers and punters in NFL: Justin Tucker's at the top, and here's who else made the list for 2019

Ghost should print out your treatise and hand it to Bellichick at the team meeting and that should cut off any ass chewing right quick.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think he's struggling. That's absolutely valid. Whoever posted the stats page, thank you... it not only shows he's got 3 missed XPs, wah, but that the denominator (13 XPs to miss) is sort of a good thing. PS, anybody still miss Viniatieri? 5/8 XPs...

OTOH, those are the 2 outliers.

Belichick has these things on his mind regarding ST:

-"Gunner" is not named "Returner" and maybe there's a reason for that.
-Squirrels can get hurt. But then again, "Gunner."
-Gost is missing kicks
-BB regards ST as 1/3 of the game, coequal with offense and defense, and just as capable (as we just saw) of providing big swings in pointage.

In a closer game, that's a lot of crap to have on your mind. I think - THINK - he's keeping a close eye on the ST situation. I think he's thinking we look good, but we're vulnerable on several fronts. One thing that is solid as of now is the D.

I'm not a doom and gloom guy, and I dont think "oh oh this team is in trouble." I'm just saying, it's always a roller coaster. This year's Pats receivers have gone from great to nonexistent to best receivers in the league to "Um... Josh Gordon is good though..." in about 3 weeks. We never had problems at K except in contract talks... we'll see if Gost rights the ship before it does damage. The Jarrett Stidham era still lies in the future Wynn doesn't. Oops, I wasn't trying to be clever saying he doesn't lie in the future, I meant he doesn't win, because, injuries. I don't know who is symbolized by fraud monitoring anymore. Michel Ma Bell Cow is not the slam dunk we were thinking in the offseason. The other teams unfairly keep paying their players too to prevent us from winning every position battle every time.

So that said, there's always some amount of play you get when you're in a slump, except if you come off the bench and immediately throw a pick six. Even then, it's just back to the bench with you, not the street. Not yet.

So long post there. I think you bring in competition on one condition, that being that BB thinks it's time to do it. Wah-wahhhhhhh.

I love doing the Pats fan copout. It's a form of fanhood for me... my team is the only team that affords us the pleasure of knowing that the coaching staff really does know better

 

[Wingy]

I have anecdotally felt like he hasn't been the same since that Denver AFCCG XP miss, but that could very well be my imagination...

Ok...I looked it up. Probably because up until that point he was a freaking machine for 3 straight seasons hitting 91.7-94.6% of his FGA. 2013-2014 through 2015-2016.

Since then, he has actually dipped back down to what was really his normal prior to 2013-2014. Save for 2017-2018 where he was 92% plus.

Guess I got spoiled by his mid-2010s elite results. I think cause of that I always felt he was automatic, and now any 'mortal' play makes me nervous by comparison.

In any case, I never see competition as a bad thing, but like others have said - you're not finding that dude at this point in the season.

 

[ALP]

if we had lost by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11+ points...could you say Ghost lost the game?

 

[203Pat]

I love the notion that it can only be Gostkowski’s fault if every other player plays a perfect game.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I love the notion that it can only be Gostkowski’s fault if every other player plays a perfect game.

Nope, I just don't agree with the notion that it can only be Gostkowski's fault.

 

[Deus Irae]

I love the notion that it can only be Gostkowski’s fault if every other player plays a perfect game.

???

The kicker is dependent. Bad snap? Not the kicker's fault. Bad hold? Not the kicker's fault. Bad blocking that leads to a block or rushed kick? Not the kicker's fault.

 

[203Pat]

Nope, I just don't agree with the notion that it can only be Gostkowski's fault.

I’m not saying it is. I’m saying a 33 yard kick is a gimmie and he shouldn’t be missing so many.

 

[203Pat]

???

The kicker is dependent. Bad snap? Not the kicker's fault. Bad hold? Not the kicker's fault. Bad blocking that leads to a block or rushed kick? Not the kicker's fault.

I’m talking about the people saying “well Brady threw a pick in that game!” Brady didn’t play well but did what he needed to (along with an all time Herculean effort by Gronk) on the final drive and we should have been in position to tie it up with an XP instead we had to go for 2. The rest of the team did what it had to in that game. Gostkowski did not.

 

[Deus Irae]

I’m talking about the people saying “well Brady threw a pick in that game!” Brady didn’t play well but did what he needed to (along with an all time Herculean effort by Gronk) on the final drive and we should have been in position to tie it up with an XP instead we had to go for 2. The rest of the team did what it had to in that game. Gostkowski did not.

That's blame pie, and if you think the rest of the team did what it had to in that game, you weren't watching. You can't say "Yeah, but...." with Brady as you did, and then refuse to allow that with Gost. "Yeah, X player sucked, but he did have the one drive/play" is great when you win, but it becomes "Yeah, player X did great on that one drive/play, but he sucked the rest of the game" during a loss.

At least usually, it's not really a matter of excusing Gost. It's a matter of trying to break down the blame pie when you think Gost is being unfairly blamed for more than he deserves.

 

[mcmurtry86]

I’m talking about the people saying “well Brady threw a pick in that game!” Brady didn’t play well but did what he needed to (along with an all time Herculean effort by Gronk) on the final drive and we should have been in position to tie it up with an XP instead we had to go for 2. The rest of the team did what it had to in that game. Gostkowski did not.

If the rest of the team “did what they had to do” on every play of the game, the score is likely totally different.

Different players fail on just about every play in a game. You notice the kicker more, but I’m sure every time the opponent scores or converts a 3rd down you could go back and say “if (whatever player) did his job here, the Pats win the game”

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I’m not saying it is. I’m saying a 33 yard kick is a gimmie and he shouldn’t be missing so many.

Maybe you didn't say it, but anyone who says "Gostkowski cost us the AFC Championship" is most definitely blaming him alone.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

what am I missing?

Nobody can ever lose a game. Somebody else always gives up key plays. But you can be the goat du jour, and you can make more mistakes, more often, than is tolerable. You can also make fewer mistakes, while making more positive plays. Brady's lifelong interception total is not zero, and it is not zero when adjusted for woulda shoulda coulda, e.g., because of tipped balls.

So you adjust for all of that as you go (as do the people who really matter, and evaluate that kind of thing for a living.)

 

[PatsFanInVa]

(PS huge thank you to whoever changed that thread title, my OCD side can rest easy. Well, easier.)

 

[Tb12goesinya]

2 missed extra points and a missed fg.
Just go for 2 point conversions.

I never liked the Steelers strategy of going for 2 most scores early in the game. Even if you are 55% you reveal too many different plays.

 

[captain stone]

I never liked the Steelers strategy of going for 2 most scores early in the game. Even if you are 55% you reveal too many different plays.

And that flawed strategy (+ RTP penalty) prevented the Murderer-Worshippers from having the lead late in the game at KC...Harbaby's a dumbass.

 

[Pape]

Thanks for that link.
Looking back at last year. Not a SINGLE KICKER with 36 or more XP attempts who was perfect. Brandon McManus was 35/35 on XP.. There were 1235 XP attempts and 1139 made. That is a 92.2% for the league as a whole. Kinda debunks the idea that the league average is 95% on XP.

actually there were 1235 attempts, with 1164 conversions... for an average of 94.3%, which, unless you are seriously picking nits, does support the 95% ...
2018 NFL Standings & Team Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Is Gostkowski good? sure
Can he be replaced? Yes he can. look at 2010... He missed half a season...
Would it hurt the Patriots to bring in competition? Nope

Should the Patriots bring in competition? You bet your damn bippies they should.

 

[TommyD4207]

Can he be replaced? Yes he can. look at 2010... He missed half a season...
Would it hurt the Patriots to bring in competition? Nope

Should the Patriots bring in competition? You bet your damn bippies they should.

Yes, Shayne Graham. Didn't miss a FG. But how many XP did he miss? And that's when it was a 20-yard kick. I don't recall the outcry then.

 

[Pape]

Yes, Shayne Graham. Didn't miss a FG. But how many XP did he miss? And that's when it was a 20-yard kick. I don't recall the outcry then.

a few... Two ... but they were in pitt and chi town ... personal paces of horror where shayne graham never did well... so its all excused, right? /s

but honestly, does it matter? No. But it succinctly illustrates the point of fact that everybody can and eventually will be replaced. Graham came in, did a fine job ... its not like scott sisson is waiting in the woods of foxboro to come back and replace gostkowski ... so i do not understand why people are so afraid of the idea of bringing in kicking competition ... Its like Gostkowski is a blue blanket and they are all named linus... "NO WE HAVE STEVEN .... HE IS GREAT ... WE WILL BROOK NO DISSENSION ... THESE ARE FACTS FACTS FACTS ... YOU... YOU... YOU... PINK HATS WHO DONT KNOW ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH STUPENDOUS ME "

Oh the ****ing arrogance of some people in this thread... yeah, well F that ...

People here got short memories... it was just a mere 14 years ago that BB let who most consider the goat kicker walk ... and replaced him with 3. i swear the people defending Gostkowski like there is no tomorrow forget this point ...

iirc they were the same ones who tried to eviscerate me when i stated in the preseason i would have been fine with the team letting him walk or resigning him... but let me repeat the fact that everyone is replaceable.

What has been BB's modus operandi? Better get rid of them One Year Early than One Year Late