Trade week

[patfanken]

I'm not saying he's irreplaceable (very few players are), I was just questioning the idea that somehow he wouldn't have a role if Chung can play. With Chung and McCourty both healthy, he had a major role on this defense, and a few postseason matchups don't really change that for me. I guess I'm just not seeing the potential of Obi and Dawson that you are. Brooks is nice, but as a 4th safety/ST guy, and I want Jones right where he is: Playing slot corner.

I agree, last season the Pats did a lot of 3 Safety D's. But I'm wondering if for this season, given what we are seeing so far, the Pats might be more CB-centric this season, especially given how well Williams and Jackson are playing. Bill might want to see more of THEM on the field in match ups than more S's. Just a thought

 

[Sicilian]

I agree, last season the Pats did a lot of 3 Safety D's. But I'm wondering if for this season, given what we are seeing so far, the Pats might be more CB-centric this season, especially given how well Williams and Jackson are playing. Bill might want to see more of THEM on the field in match ups than more S's. Just a thought

An angle I hadn't really considered in depth, and I can concede that's a definite possibility. We know they tailor their defense to the talent available, so if they feel like 3-4 CB's and 1-2 safeties puts their best players on the field, I'm sure we'll see more of that. Still, I'm reluctant to part with Harmon because I just don't know what we have in any of the other safeties, and we still need backups in case of injury.

 

[patfanken]

An angle I hadn't really considered in depth, and I can concede that's a definite possibility. We know they tailor their defense to the talent available, so if they feel like 3-4 CB's and 1-2 safeties puts their best players on the field, I'm sure we'll see more of that. Still, I'm reluctant to part with Harmon because I just don't know what we have in any of the other safeties, and we still need backups in case of injury.

Well, they haven't parted with him yet. This is only speculation

 

[patchick]

3. This is my self serving trade to protect my Binky. Assuming Chung will be back with the team to start the season, and all reports seem to confirm that, I'm trading Daron Harmon to a team that needs a starting FS. Now Harmon's been a decent back up and 3rd Safety, but he's not special. But he DOES have that 3 ring pedigree and would be an asset to a team that is thin at safety. This time I'm looking for a 4th or better on this trade

When it comes to safeties, "backup" is a fluid term. Harmon consistently plays about 2/3 of all defensive snaps, a lot more than a "starter" at DT, for instance. The thought of needing either Brooks or Melifonwu to play starter-level snaps--or with a single injury, both of them--makes me very nervous indeed.

Roberts, Wise, Pennel and Burkhead are all being pushed by other players on the roster. Harmon really isn't, IMO.

EDIT: I see that as I was posting this, a discussion of simply using safeties less broke out. That's intriguing, but I think losing Harmon would affect the flexibility of the defense in a way that none of the others would. (Though possibly Pennel, if Shelton is left as the only NT type.)

 

[patsinthesnow]

Based on last night. May give a clue into who's expendable in this scheme or who the team should go out & get:

• Shelton has been awesome this camp/preseason. He's stated he's lost 17 lbs. since last year & a new technique has allowed him to get upfield more. This news has its pros & cons. He's arguably turning into the defensive version of Josh Gordon if he plays like a great NT in a 3 man front given his history of inconsistent play. If Pennel is flaming out, shouldn't the Pats acquire a backup NT? Who is it right now?
  
  
• I was concerned how Bennett would fit as a 5 technique but you can tell with the aggressive nature of the D he will get alot of 1 on 1s vs. guards. I bet if you asked him he'd prefer that over battling tackles. Love it.
  
  
• The top 4 OLBs & top 2 ILBs seem straight forward. That leaves Roberts & Rivers as potential trade pieces for late round picks although they could be kept. Calhoun makes sense as a STer & someone who's shined recently as mgteich has pointed out.

• Adam Butler is a weird one. Cowart has passed him on the 3-4 DE depth chart but IMO he still is underrated with a role on the team. He'll be the sub rusher he's always been spelling many players on the DL on 3rd down. He's worth keeping.

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Trade Pieces: Deatrich Wise, Elandon Roberts, Derek Rivers. While Wise played decently vs. Tennessee as a 3-4 DE he really doesn't have a clear role. I like the idea of Bobdigital with trading him to Oakland that lacks much of anything in EDGE rushers.

Trade for: late round pick for a backup NT. If Pennel is toast, the team needs a fatty backing up Shelton especially if he can't maintain a high level of play.

 

[patchick]

If Pennel is flaming out, shouldn't the Pats acquire a backup NT? Who is it right now?

At this point it's just Pennel vs. David Parry. Did anybody take notice of Parry at all last night? I certainly didn't.

Trade Pieces: Deatrich Wise, Elandon Roberts, Derek Rivers.

IMO Roberts is the #1 most likely trade option, partially because I think he has real marketplace value (unlike, say, Burkhead). He has grown into a more complete player since his wild thumper days and could definitely help somebody. But he plays sparingly on special teams, and if Calvin Munson takes over Brandon King's roster spot it might make more sense to have Munson active as ST & extra LB.

 

[Marqui]

Based on last night. May give a clue into who's expendable in this scheme or who the team should go out & get:

• Shelton has been awesome this camp/preseason. He's stated he's lost 17 lbs. since last year & a new technique has allowed him to get upfield more. This news has its pros & cons. He's arguably turning into the defensive version of Josh Gordon if he plays like a great NT in a 3 man front given his history of inconsistent play. If Pennel is flaming out, shouldn't the Pats acquire a backup NT? Who is it right now?
  
  
• I was concerned how Bennett would fit as a 5 technique but you can tell with the aggressive nature of the D he will get alot of 1 on 1s vs. guards. I bet if you asked him he'd prefer that over battling tackles. Love it.
  
  
• The top 4 OLBs & top 2 ILBs seem straight forward. That leaves Roberts & Rivers as potential trade pieces for late round picks although they could be kept. Calhoun makes sense as a STer & someone who's shined recently as mgteich has pointed out.

• Adam Butler is a weird one. Cowart has passed him on the 3-4 DE depth chart but IMO he still is underrated with a role on the team. He'll be the sub rusher he's always been spelling many players on the DL on 3rd down. He's worth keeping.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trade Pieces: Deatrich Wise, Elandon Roberts, Derek Rivers. While Wise played decently vs. Tennessee as a 3-4 DE he really doesn't have a clear role. I like the idea of Bobdigital with trading him to Oakland that lacks much of anything in EDGE rushers.

Trade for: late round pick for a backup NT. If Pennel is toast, the team needs a fatty backing up Shelton especially if he can't maintain a high level of play.

Bennet didn't play 3-4 DE at all last night.
How are they going to trade Rivers when he's hurt?

 

[mcmurtry86]

Don't get me wrong, I love Harmon and what he's contributed. He's been a very steady 3rd Safety and normally I'd consider him a lock. But these aren't normal times. Again, assuming Chung is back, I see Harmon is being a luxury we can't afford. Add to that Brooks is a quicker and faster possible replacement who adds more ST's value. And THEN there is the "binky" factor. Harmon is standing in the way of my own personal "binky" Obi Malafanu, so, sorry he has to go. But seriously we really do need to get younger at the position and Obi represents that youth movement.

He’s a starting caliber safety and played 60%+ of the defensive snaps last year and you want to replace him with a draft bust that hasn’t shown much of anything in the pros. For this honor, you’re asking for a 4th round pick which -historically - has about a 20% chance of becoming a useful player let alone a defensive starter

Makes no sense

 

[Joey007]

DL/DE: Pennel (case of Bud Light), Adam Butler (if we want Cowart instead), and Derek Rivers (Think he's on the outside looking in now).

You don’t think both Butler and Cowart can make the roster after cutting Pennel? Not sure I agree there.

 

[Hyped]

You don’t think both Butler and Cowart can make the roster after cutting Pennel? Not sure I agree there.

Just laying out guys that are on the bubble and could be trade assets.

Playing with the Pats picker...I cannot come up with a good scenario where we can keep everybody....even taking injuries, I/R, Suspensions, NFI's, and/or PUPs under consideration (e.g. Watson, Meredith, Maurice Harris, LaCosse, Gordon, and King).

We are gonna make some tough cuts this year....I want to keep about 58-59 players......

 

[patsinthesnow]

Bennet didn't play 3-4 DE at all last night.
How are they going to trade Rivers when he's hurt?

PFF had him at 10 snaps as a situational DT. I assume in the regular season he’ll take over Cowarts starting spot.

Oops regarding Rivers. True.

 

[Marqui]

PFF had him at 10 snaps as a situational DT. I assume in the regular season he’ll take over Cowarts starting spot.

Why would you assume that? He'd be extremely light for a 3-4 DE, I'd be shocked if he played that position any more than a handful of snaps a game.

 

[SBLIII]

Why would you assume that? He'd be extremely light for a 3-4 DE, I'd be shocked if he played that position any more than a handful of snaps a game.

you must be confusing him with Wise. Bennett is a terrific 3-4 DE

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[SBLIII]

Clowney.

 

[Marqui]

you must be confusing him with Wise. Bennett is a terrific 3-4 DE

Based on what?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

The people defending cocaine on here is laughable and despicable

 

[patfanken]

Roberts, Wise, Pennel and Burkhead are all being pushed by other players on the roster. Harmon really isn't, IMO.

EDIT: I see that as I was posting this, a discussion of simply using safeties less broke out. That's intriguing, but I think losing Harmon would affect the flexibility of the defense in a way that none of the others would. (Though possibly Pennel, if Shelton is left as the only NT type.)

Your point about Harmon not being push is probably true. Obi didn't even dress the other night, which was disappointing to me. Still the more I think on it the more I'm getting more and more attached to the idea that the kind of flexibility that Harmon gave to the team last season, is going to be taken care by the CB's this season.

Remember while Harmon got a lot of snaps during the regular season, he got a LOT fewer snaps (about 4 before Chung broke his arm) during the playoffs when the defense looked a lot more like what we are seeing now than what we saw during the regular season.

BTW- anyone know how much Harmon plays ST's IF he doesn't play much that would lower his value.

Either way, PC, we'll know in about a week or so. At which point we will all be either geniuses or dopes.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

IMO the trade bait players are Pennel, Wise and Roberts. Harmon is a maybe but I don't see it right now.

Wise to Oakland makes a lot of sense to me. Besides their pick of Ferrell (who is a rookie and will have rookie issues most most likely) they have very little pass rush there from the edge. Trade him for a 4th round pick as they don't have any players that interest me that we can get for Wise. Maybe Josh Jacobs though. I haven't like what Burkead has given us this year and I think they should move on. If they feel they need another RB he would be a good option. I'd rather have the pick though.

Did you just suggest Oakland trade us their first round rookie rb for wise?

 

[patsinthesnow]