Pats Release Ryan Allen - Jake Bailey is the new punter

[Snooky97]

What is it with the posters here and the kicker position? Have you lost all understanding when it comes to that position?

Justin Tucker is almost universally considered the best kicker in the game. Let's look at his numbers over the last 2 seasons, compared to Gost, using Pro-Football-Reference for the data:

20-29: Tucker is 19 for 19, Gost is 27 for 27
30-39: Tucker is 20 for 20, Gost is 19 for 19
40-49: Tucker is 20 for 23, Gost is 12 for 17
50+: Tucker is 10 for 14, Gost is 6 for 9

So:

They're essentially the same from inside 40 yards, with both hitting 100% of those field goals.
From 40-49 yards, Tucker kicked 87%, while Gost kicked 71%
From 50+, they're basically the same, with Tucker hitting 71% and Gost hitting 67%

In other words, for all that this board occasionally gets to stupidly attacking Gost, we're looking at difference between Gost and the NFL's #1 kicker being a matter of only about 2-3 FG makes over the course of 2 seasons.

And, as for the XPs, Tucker is 75 of 76 while Gost is 94 of 97, which, again, is about 2 makes over the course of 2 seasons, with each kicker missing only one PAT last year.

This is a brilliant bit of analysis work. Well done! Love stuff like this

 

[Bruins29]

We prefer facts over truth here.

 

[Clonamery]

We prefer facts over truth here.

Truth is an eye test?

 

[Bruins29]

Truth is an eye test?

Well to some here, their eye-test is their truth. Thats all I was trying to say.
Data pretty much shows that when you take into consideration how many XP attempts Gost has taken VS made and compared them to the kickers above him he is easily better than his 5th most accurate 2018 ranking.

I would say SG is probably the 2nd most accurate XP kicker in the league easily, given that 15 of his games last year were outside VS at max 8 were for at least 2 of the other guys. And, the fact that they had less attempts SKUs it in Gost's favor.

If anyone would like to debate it....bring it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can SEE the kicks don't look as good Deus, just as I can SEE you are on your high horse again. Nobody who's being rational is going to argue that repeated kicks that just squeak through the goal posts might lead to more that squeak the other way. But you go ahead and enjoy your empowerment.

Yes, the rational person will argue precisely that, if the data backs that position up. That's part of being rational. What works, works. If Gost starts kicking FGAs where the footballs sprout dresses and sing gay cabaret songs while in the air, I'm going to be fine with that as long as those FGAs still go through the uprights as often as they should. There are no style points in NFL kicking.

And opining as to the idiocy of the "Feels" method of kicker evaluation is not getting on one's high horse. It's attempting to bring some semblance of sanity to an otherwise batshit crazy conversation. (I grant that the reference to a dress wearing singing football does not attempt to bring that sanity. It's an attempt to get the people being crazy to see just how nuts they're being).

 

[Betterthanmost]

We prefer facts over truth here.

A distinction without a difference. Facts are easily proven to be true and thus are quintessentially truth.

 

[JPPT1974]

Ghost says he wants to still handle KO's and wonder if it will take a lot for that of BB to talk him out of it. But Adam V in Indy, his kickoffs were short as he began to age. While Ghost remember did not add T.B.'s due to BB coaching him not to do that. Keep in mind. But IMHO he and Jake B need to alternate kickoffs. Just my two cents worth.

 

[Zuma]

Numbers and statistics are facts. If you don't like the facts then you can always lie to yourself and fudge the stats to what you want.

 

[Deus Irae]

Numbers and statistics are facts. If you don't like the facts then you can always lie to yourself and fudge the stats to what you want.

The expression "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" exists for a reason. Statistics can be made to lie and/or mislead (you can choose your word of preference) in ways that would make Lucifer himself blush. It's why context is so important.

 

[kennyb]

Ghost seems to choke a lot. I don't think belichick has full confidence in him
Remember the giants sb going for it on 4th and 13 instead of a 52 yard kick?

Nice guy but i hope they cut him.

And accuracy statistics are flawed if the team rately has you kick longer than a 40 yarder.

 

[catent]

Ghost seems to choke a lot. I don't think belichick has full confidence in him
Remember the giants sb going for it on 4th and 13 instead of a 52 yard kick?

Nice guy but i hope they cut him.

And accuracy statistics are flawed if the team rately has you kick longer than a 40 yarder.

I'm a bit lukewarm on Gostkowski myself but the last remark about not kicking a large quantity of long field goals is misleading. Some of Gost's best kicks have come from a long distance.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Ghost seems to choke a lot. I don't think belichick has full confidence in him
Remember the giants sb going for it on 4th and 13 instead of a 52 yard kick?

Nice guy but i hope they cut him.

And accuracy statistics are flawed if the team rately has you kick longer than a 40 yarder.

Who are you replacing him with after he's cut?

 

[Bruins29]

I'm a bit lukewarm on Gostkowski myself but the last remark about not kicking a large quantity of long field goals is misleading. Some of Gost's best kicks have come from a long distance.

Why waste your time responding to....whatever this thing is.

 

[Simpelton]

A distinction without a difference. Facts are easily proven to be true and thus are quintessentially truth.

"My skin is green"
"I have 15 fingers on my left hand."
"the Jets are going to win the Superbowl this year."

All these are basically facts.

People use the word fact as a substitute for truth, but all a fact is is a statement that can be falsified. In other words, can either be proven right or wrong. You can lie your balls off, say everything you said is a fact, and be absolutely correct.

That's why those really annoying political ads use the word "fact" in front of the latest smear campaign lie ("FACT: Joe Blow voted to spent 50 million dollars to find the Federal Sealclubbers' League), because when taken to court they can fall back behind this technicality.

There is no element of truth assigned to a sentence just because it's a statement of fact. Not until you check to see if it is or is not true.

 

[PatsDeb]

Yes, the rational person will argue precisely that, if the data backs that position up. That's part of being rational. What works, works. If Gost starts kicking FGAs where the footballs sprout dresses and sing gay cabaret songs while in the air, I'm going to be fine with that as long as those FGAs still go through the uprights as often as they should. There are no style points in NFL kicking.

And opining as to the idiocy of the "Feels" method of kicker evaluation is not getting on one's high horse. It's attempting to bring some semblance of sanity to an otherwise batshit crazy conversation. (I grant that the reference to a dress wearing singing football does not attempt to bring that sanity. It's an attempt to get the people being crazy to see just how nuts they're being).

Lol, I thought you were done....
By the way, in response to my comments, which amount to, “Gost makes me nervous. His kicks don’t look too good,” (and in which opinions I did not ask or demand anyone else join), you have called me emotional, irrational, insane and the piece de resistance, “batshit crazy.” That is the essence of the high horse my dear Deus. I await your response as I know you cannot stand not to have the last word...

 

[Deus Irae]

"My skin is green"
"I have 15 fingers on my left hand."
"the Jets are going to win the Superbowl this year."

All these are basically facts.

People use the word fact as a substitute for truth, but all a fact is is a statement that can be falsified. In other words, can either be proven right or wrong. You can lie your balls off, say everything you said is a fact, and be absolutely correct.

That's why those really annoying political ads use the word "fact" in front of the latest smear campaign lie ("FACT: Joe Blow voted to spent 50 million dollars to find the Federal Sealclubbers' League), because when taken to court they can fall back behind this technicality.

There is no element of truth assigned to a sentence just because it's a statement of fact. Not until you check to see if it is or is not true.

Umm.....

No.

OED:

A thing that is known or proved to be true.
‘the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas’
‘he ignores some historical and economic facts’
mass noun ‘a body of fact’

The truth about events as opposed to interpretation.
‘there was a question of fact as to whether they had received the letter’

fact | Definition of fact in English by Lexico Dictionaries


You're confusing claim/assertion with fact.

 

[Deus Irae]

Lol, I thought you were done....
By the way, in response to my comments, which amount to, “Gost makes me nervous. His kicks don’t look too good,” (and in which opinions I did not ask or demand anyone else join), you have called me emotional, irrational, insane and the piece de resistance, “batshit crazy.” That is the essence of the high horse my dear Deus. I await your response as I know you cannot stand to have the last word...

1. I responded to a post where you specifically mentioned my name. If I'd refused to answer, you'd have said that I was rude in ignoring you.
   
2. I didn't call you batshit crazy. I called the conversation batshit crazy. It's right there in the post you quoted.

 

[PatsDeb]

Umm.....

No.

OED:





fact | Definition of fact in English by Lexico Dictionaries


You're confusing claim/assertion with fact.

and there it is!

I’m last! I win!

 

[PatsDeb]

1. I responded to a post where you specifically mentioned my name. If I'd refused to answer, you'd have said that I was rude in ignoring you.
   
2. I didn't call you batshit crazy. I called the conversation batshit crazy. It's right there in the post you quoted.

Oh no! I quoted the wrong one! Now I win!

 

[Tunescribe]

If Gost starts kicking FGAs where the footballs sprout dresses and sing gay cabaret songs while in the air, I'm going to be fine with that as long as those FGAs still go through the uprights as often as they should.

What bothers me is when they start cussing a blue streak midair about wobbling/spinning wrong and being kicked in the laces. Sometimes, if you're watching closely through binoculars, you can spot a faint purple trail behind the ball on ones that miss.