Switch to 3-4 seems to be getting more official

[PatsFan2]

Ok so what's the story on Christian Sam??

 

[PatsFan2]

Wise would get demolished as a 3-4 DE.

Yeah I don't like my 3-4 DE 's at 275 they could have problems setting the Edge.

 

[Brick27]

Ok so what's the story on Christian Sam??

Seems like a victim of depth at this point and not really room to tack him on the roster as a reserve or developmental guy. Haven’t seen anything too disparaging, but nothing too positive either. He looked to be working with Munson and Hall against Detroit.

 

[patfanken]

BB has always been about the best way to utilize the talent that he happens to have. When he drafted CJones his best position was as a DE, with no Vince or his replacement he went to a 4-3 at EXACTLY the time most teams were switching to a 3-4 base. And we've been a 4-3 base team for the last several years and drafted accordingly.

Now when Bill looks at his roster, he HAS to think, "how can I get more LB's on the field". LB is clearly a strength of this team. In the last couple of years we often had only 2 on the field most of the time. That would be a waste this year. Also having NT prototypes like Pennell and Shelton didn't hurt either.

But here's the thing that I'm wondering about. Are we going to see a 2 gaping, read and react, DL across the board in this iteration of the 3-4. I don't think so. I'm thinking we are going to see a more aggressive version of the 3-4. More, ironically, like the 3-4 that Pittsburgh ran under **** Lebeau.

Shelton, Bennett, Wise seem better suited as perpetrators than 2 gap guys. Guy at DE and Pennell at NT can be 2 gap guys when that is called for, but there aren't a lot of guys that fit that 2 gap DE role on this roster. Maybe Wise can get big and strong enough to do it, but it seems to me it would be a waste to have some like Bennett doing something very often that is not what he does best.

Bottom line: while we seem to be morphing into something that "looks" like a 3-4 base, I'm not sure it will be the 3-4 we are used to seeing, and I think that's a good idea.

 

[jah]

BB has always been about the best way to utilize the talent that he happens to have. When he drafted CJones his best position was as a DE, with no Vince or his replacement he went to a 4-3 at EXACTLY the time most teams were switching to a 3-4 base. And we've been a 4-3 base team for the last several years and drafted accordingly.

Now when Bill looks at his roster, he HAS to think, "how can I get more LB's on the field". LB is clearly a strength of this team. In the last couple of years we often had only 2 on the field most of the time. That would be a waste this year. Also having NT prototypes like Pennell and Shelton didn't hurt either.

But here's the thing that I'm wondering about. Are we going to see a 2 gaping, read and react, DL across the board in this iteration of the 3-4. I don't think so. I'm thinking we are going to see a more aggressive version of the 3-4. More, ironically, like the 3-4 that Pittsburgh ran under **** Lebeau.

Shelton, Bennett, Wise seem better suited as perpetrators than 2 gap guys. Guy at DE and Pennell at NT can be 2 gap guys when that is called for, but there aren't a lot of guys that fit that 2 gap DE role on this roster. Maybe Wise can get big and strong enough to do it, but it seems to me it would be a waste to have some like Bennett doing something very often that is not what he does best.

Bottom line: while we seem to be morphing into something that "looks" like a 3-4 base, I'm not sure it will be the 3-4 we are used to seeing, and I think that's a good idea.

All we really know is there's going to be more 3 man fronts. We definitely don't have the personnel (or play in a league where it would even be advantageous) for a 2010 style defense. I think the biggest difference is our outside linebackers are going to be smaller than your typical 3-4 OLB. I saw Collins come off the edge at least once (not that he's small, but he's thought of as an ILB).

 

[mgteich]

The NT is a position that is very prone to injury. I would keep at least 3 true biggies. For me, 9 EDGE (OL and DE) seems to be a lot. IMO, we need at 2 more inside: a NT and an ILB.

NT - Pennell, Shelton
DE - Bennett, Guy, Wise, Butler

ILB - Hightower, Bentley, Roberts
OLB - Collins, Van Noy, Winovich, Simon, Rivers/Calhoun

Guess maybe it’d be something along those lines, with a few of the LBs being able to play inside or out.

 

[mgteich]

You might consider all our players and who should make the 53. It is not all clear that Wise
is good choice in a 34 or even in a hybrid defense.

BB has always been about the best way to utilize the talent that he happens to have. When he drafted CJones his best position was as a DE, with no Vince or his replacement he went to a 4-3 at EXACTLY the time most teams were switching to a 3-4 base. And we've been a 4-3 base team for the last several years and drafted accordingly.

Now when Bill looks at his roster, he HAS to think, "how can I get more LB's on the field". LB is clearly a strength of this team. In the last couple of years we often had only 2 on the field most of the time. That would be a waste this year. Also having NT prototypes like Pennell and Shelton didn't hurt either.

But here's the thing that I'm wondering about. Are we going to see a 2 gaping, read and react, DL across the board in this iteration of the 3-4. I don't think so. I'm thinking we are going to see a more aggressive version of the 3-4. More, ironically, like the 3-4 that Pittsburgh ran under **** Lebeau.

Shelton, Bennett, Wise seem better suited as perpetrators than 2 gap guys. Guy at DE and Pennell at NT can be 2 gap guys when that is called for, but there aren't a lot of guys that fit that 2 gap DE role on this roster. Maybe Wise can get big and strong enough to do it, but it seems to me it would be a waste to have some like Bennett doing something very often that is not what he does best.

Bottom line: while we seem to be morphing into something that "looks" like a 3-4 base, I'm not sure it will be the 3-4 we are used to seeing, and I think that's a good idea.

 

[PatsFan2]

All we really know is there's going to be more 3 man fronts. We definitely don't have the personnel (or play in a league where it would even be advantageous) for a 2010 style defense. I think the biggest difference is our outside linebackers are going to be smaller than your typical 3-4 OLB. I saw Collins come off the edge at least once (not that he's small, but he's thought of as an ILB).

Hmmmm which makes me think 3-4 might be a possibility but not Absolute. I think our Front Seven is more built for a 4-3 type D.

 

[Ring 6]

A 'hungry' Deatrich Wise appears to be fighting for a roster spot in a new role



So, this tells me 2 things:

1) The switch to a 3-4 is real (although we know nickel is the true base)
2) The team sees Wise as a DE regardless of what kind of alignment we have

There isn’t a change happening in the scheme. We just have a lot of lbs so the 6th guy may be more lb than de.
Wise has always been a tweener and I suppose with flowers gone they see him as a guy who moves inside on passing downs so he bulked up a bit.

 

[Sicilian]

Ok so what's the story on Christian Sam??

I see Sam as mostly a ST guy at this point, with some ability to be an emergency LB. But with the rest of the depth we have at LB, if we ever saw Sam on the field it would probably mean we've had a DISASTROUS injury season. So he either makes it as a Brandon King style ST linebacker, or he doesn't make it at all.

 

[ralmat55]

A 'hungry' Deatrich Wise appears to be fighting for a roster spot in a new role



So, this tells me 2 things:

1) The switch to a 3-4 is real (although we know nickel is the true base)
2) The team sees Wise as a DE regardless of what kind of alignment we have

“Playing closer to the guards” is also a clue that it’s not going to be a traditional Patriots 2-gap 3-4. If it was, the ends would still be lined up against the tackles. This explains as well why Adam Butler has bulked up this year too.

My nephew was in Foxboro in July and took in 5 practices with his family. Not going too deeply into it with him but being curious about the defensive alignment. I asked him from memory whether the ends on the front was mostly in a 2 point stance or 3 point stance. He remembered the end mostly being in a 2 point stance. From his observation, I’m thinking what we’re going to see will closely resemble the 5 man fronts they’ve had such success with the last couple of years.

 

[Vatahala]

My nephew got an autograph from him at camp this year and I've never seen anyone with bigger hands. Think Andre the Giant hands.

He would have an enormous schwanzstucker.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is a pretty simplistic statement but I think it'll all come down to BB keeping the best defensive players and that is what will drive the scheme and the formations.

As of right now the best interior DTs are Pennel, Guy, Butler and Shelton. I guess Guy and Butler could play more DE in the 3-4. Shelton and Pennel seem more pure NT to me. Those are the best 4 players.

Clearly Wise and Bennett are not DTs but more of your 275lb DE. They seem more 4-3 DE and maybe could be 3-4 DE a few times a game.

IMO the strength is the LBs. High, Bentley, Collins and Roberts are more "inside" guys but High and Collins can play outside.

KVN, Chase, Rivers, Simon and Calhoun seem more OLB dime DEs to me.

So.....I guess I'm in the camp as saying they'll have the personnel to play 3-4 or 4-3- depending on the matchup. I don't see BB committing one way or the other.

 

[Ring 6]

You might consider all our players and who should make the 53. It is not all clear that Wise
is good choice in a 34 or even in a hybrid defense.

Wise is a bigger DE who is best playing inside on passing downs.
Wise is the best run defending DE on the roster and one of the better bigger pass rushers.

 

[Ring 6]

This is a pretty simplistic statement but I think it'll all come down to BB keeping the best defensive players and that is what will drive the scheme and the formations.

As of right now the best interior DTs are Pennel, Guy, Butler and Shelton. I guess Guy and Butler could play more DE in the 3-4. Shelton and Pennel seem more pure NT to me. Those are the best 4 players.

Clearly Wise and Bennett are not DTs but more of your 275lb DE. They seem more 4-3 DE and maybe could be 3-4 DE a few times a game.

IMO the strength is the LBs. High, Bentley, Collins and Roberts are more "inside" guys but High and Collins can play outside.

KVN, Chase, Rivers, Simon and Calhoun seem more OLB dime DEs to me.

So.....I guess I'm in the camp as saying they'll have the personnel to play 3-4 or 4-3- depending on the matchup. I don't see BB committing one way or the other.

We play a front 7 about 10-15% of the time.

Really we are a 3-2 plus whatever you feel like calling the 6th guy.

2 big DTs one bigger DE 2 off the line LBs and then the 6th guy is a hybrid that could be classified as de or olb and the classification has nothing to do with whether he is standing up or down in a stance.

 

[everlong]

Everyone is assuming they'll play a 2-gap with the NT over the nose like they did with VW and Ted Washington.

They could play a 1-gap like the Steelers do or the way the Chargers of the 2000's did. I don't see this happening as a base.

More likely they'll use a 3-4 under with the NT offset and not directly over center. This allows for both 1 and 2 gap responsibilities. Houston favors this style. With the likes of Hightower, KVN, Bentley and Collins plus all of the DE/OLB types like Winovich, Simon, etc I think this would allow they to make plays and be aggressive.

Knowing Bill it will be week to week anyway where we could see any of these and we'll still see 4-3 when it's the best defense against that offense.

 

[Ring 6]

Can we please recognize that we have a front SIX not a front 7. We employ 5 or more dbs 85-90% of the time.
3-4 or 4-3 is irrelevant.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We play a front 7 about 10-15% of the time.

Really we are a 3-2 plus whatever you feel like calling the 6th guy.

2 big DTs one bigger DE 2 off the line LBs and then the 6th guy is a hybrid that could be classified as de or olb and the classification has nothing to do with whether he is standing up or down in a stance.

Yep. Thats why don't buy into the notion of the team being a pure 3-4 or 4-3. The game is different now.I'm starting to wonder if we should call Chung, Obi or even JoeJuan LBs

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Patriots 2019 Training Camp Guide - Defensive Line

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Film room: What Mike Pennel will bring to the Patriots defense this season