Brady & Gordon working out together

[Uptown]

Demaryius Thomas is displeased with this post.

As an aside has there ever been a game where 2 100+ reception WRs played together?

EDIT: Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald.

Sorta Chris Carter and Randy Moss(Moss went for 100 year after Carter left)

I’m actually one of the posters rooting for DT. He already has some semblance of knowledge of our system. I just hope he’s healthy enough to make the 53.

 

[supafly]

I’m actually one of the posters rooting for DT. He already has some semblance of knowledge of our system. I just hope he’s healthy enough to make the 53.

He’s likely “healthy enough” to start the summer on PUP and stay there for the first 1/3–1/2 of the year. I don’t think anything else is reasonable, aside from cutting him because he’s just not healing properly. I think we’d all be stunned if he were able to compete in training camp.

 

[fnordcircle]

I’m actually one of the posters rooting for DT. He already has some semblance of knowledge of our system. I just hope he’s healthy enough to make the 53.

I keep freaking forgetting this guy is currently on our team. He has all the earmarks of a vet who will wash out ala Reggie Wayne or John Lynch.

 

[SBLIII]

Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed this before.

If Gordon returns early, Pats will have the best offense in the NFL. 31-32 ppg

If he doesn't return, top 4-6 offense. 27-28 PPG

 

[TomPatriot]

Start of training camp still seems to be a sensible time.

Agreed. But JetDell and his cohorts probably don't think being suspended for two regular season games, two playoff games and the Super Bowl is sufficient punishment.

 

[p8ryts]

I still don't get it. I wish Gordon well but don't see him as a great savior. Statistics might indicate he was an important piece of the offense however I recall myself and others complaining that Brady was forcing the ball to him. When he was set down is when the team committed to the run. That's the team I want to see this year.

 

[SBLIII]

I still don't get it. I wish Gordon well but don't see him as a great savior. Statistics might indicate he was an important piece of the offense however I recall myself and others complaining that Brady was forcing the ball to him. When he was set down is when the team committed to the run. That's the team I want to see this year.

Best option would be to have both.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I still don't get it. I wish Gordon well but don't see him as a great savior. Statistics might indicate he was an important piece of the offense however I recall myself and others complaining that Brady was forcing the ball to him. When he was set down is when the team committed to the run. That's the team I want to see this year.

This.

There were absolutely times last year when the offense was out of rhythm b/c Tom was forcing the ball to Josh 15-20yrds downfield and not taking the 4-7 yard dink n dunks throws/runs to keep the chains moving. You could see it. My belief is Josh is a crazy talent and knew enough of the offense to get on the field but he wasn't on the same page with Tom on sight adjustments, reading the D, etc and that limited them situationally. A TC and more reps with Tom and Jules can only help in that area.

I think Josh does open things up for the offense and overall are better with him but its not like 2007 Moss or 2011 Gronk where his sheer presence and production on the field is basically an additional touchdown a game.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Yes Brady to Gordon definitely looked forced at times but I think that was by design, you know in the same way Belichick uses Sept and as extension of preseason. It never gelled and maybe his suspension saved the Pats last year. That doesnt mean that they can't click this year especially if he gets to play in training camp
Last year he fell from the sky with no time to work him in. I think it's worth a try

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes Brady to Gordon definitely looked forced at times but I think that was by design, you know in the same way Belichick uses Sept and as extension of preseason. It never gelled and maybe his suspension saved the Pats last year. That doesnt mean that they can't click this year especially if he gets to play in training camp
Last year he fell from the sky with no time to work him in. I think it's worth a try

If Josh played 16 games its projected he would have had 58 catches and 1,048yds so yea I'd say it's worth it

 

[patfanken]

Those last few comments were interesting and insightful. I didn't think of that and in retrospect I think its true. Brady DID, on several occasions, seem like he was forcing throws into Gordon. I looked on it as a somewhat good thing at the time.

Brady has for YEARS seemed to have thrown only to guys who had complete separation from their defenders. Sure he threw some "back shoulder fades" occasionally, but far fewer than most of his contemporaries. Granted throwing to covered receivers is NOT a good idea, but for an accurate thrower, Brady took a lot fewer chances than his peers. But interestingly enough Gronk was the exception to this habit.

Once he got a WR who was great on 50-50 balls and Gronk was wallowing in his injuries, he then seemed to use Gordon as the guy who would get those 50-50 throws, but clearly the kind of "connection" he had with Gronk was lacking for obvious reasons

NOW it seams that between Gordon, Harry, Harris, Inman, and even Thomas down the road, we have a plethora of guys who have the potential to be 50-50 guys. And here's the important thing. WR's who can replace the role that Gronk held for so many years. The big receiver who is either against someone slower or smaller and can catch the ball in tight coverage because of it.

As to WHEN Gordon comes back. It seems to me that it's pretty certain that he'll be reinstated so that he can be in TC from day one. As to when he can actually play in a regular season game, I haven't a clue.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Those last few comments were interesting and insightful. I didn't think of that and in retrospect I think its true. Brady DID, on several occasions, seem like he was forcing throws into Gordon. I looked on it as a somewhat good thing at the time.

Brady has for YEARS seemed to have thrown only to guys who had complete separation from their defenders. Sure he threw some "back shoulder fades" occasionally, but far fewer than most of his contemporaries. Granted throwing to covered receivers is NOT a good idea, but for an accurate thrower, Brady took a lot fewer chances than his peers. But interestingly enough Gronk was the exception to this habit.

Once he got a WR who was great on 50-50 balls and Gronk was wallowing in his injuries, he then seemed to use Gordon as the guy who would get those 50-50 throws, but clearly the kind of "connection" he had with Gronk was lacking for obvious reasons

NOW it seams that between Gordon, Harry, Harris, Inman, and even Thomas down the road, we have a plethora of guys who have the potential to be 50-50 guys. And here's the important thing. WR's who can replace the role that Gronk held for so many years. The big receiver who is either against someone slower or smaller and can catch the ball in tight coverage because of it.

As to WHEN Gordon comes back. It seems to me that it's pretty certain that he'll be reinstated so that he can be in TC from day one. As to when he can actually play in a regular season game, I haven't a clue.

Even though some of us have shredded Lazar in another thread he actually has some decent stats re: Josh/Tom

Brady only completed 26.7 percent of his throws to Gordon on go balls (4-15), which was his worst completion rate on any route that Gordon ran last year.

On in-cuts or dig routes to Gordon, Brady was 10-13 for 219 yards, one touchdown and a team-best 16.8 yards per attempt.

Gordon was also difficult to defend on slants where Brady was 10-13 for 138 yards and 10.6 yards per attempt.

Patriots Don't Need Josh Gordon, But it Sure Would Be Nice | CLNS Media

 

[patsinthesnow]

Josh Gordon

• No training camp/preseason
• Part-time players week 4-5
• Appeared to be out of game shape (speed wasn't there for awhile & he ran out of gas on a would be TD vs. Chicago)
• Played half his season when Brady didn't quite look right from Tennessee to Pittsburgh (falling backwards to protect injury? accuracy, etc.)

Despite that he managed 65.5 YPG & was 2nd in the NFL in YPC (18.0). Captain obvious but you need to be quite the talented player to do that mid-season in the Pats offense. Check out his last few catches in the 2nd Miami game. You can see his speed start to come back.

Fortunately the offense adapted & sliced up the Chargers cover 3 defense with quick passing & won a narrow contest @ KC with a game plan featuring more RB carries than pass attempts. There's little doubt that Gordon would've helped alot in the SB & potentially made it a blowout as Hogan couldn't do anything in 1 on 1 coverage.

I'm part fool & part homer but a healthy Gordon makes the Pats go from a SB contender to the prohibitive favorite IMO. Two top 15-20 WRs paired with the run game & defense would be a pain in the ass matchup for the league (that's without factoring in Harry contributing). I hope he can return.

edit: To robertweathers post above with the interesting go route stat, part of that may have been a lack of speed early on. He was just a tick slow on a long TD vs. KC (PI called anyway) & vs. Buffalo. There's room for growth there.

 

[SBLIII]

If Josh played 16 games its projected he would have had 58 catches and 1,048yds so yea I'd say it's worth it

with no training camp.

I think you can get roughly 75 y/g out of him with more chemistry.

Josh/N'Keal/Jules/Harris/Dorsett
with the run game and elite secondary

sure would be nice

 

[PatsFan2]

Flash Gordon have some demons but you have to admire how he takes care of his body. He's the closest thing to Megatron I have seen and I don't mean the Transformers Megatron.

 

[XLIX]

Agreed. But JetDell and his cohorts probably don't think being suspended for two regular season games, two playoff games and the Super Bowl is sufficient punishment.

This is not a league conspiracy against the Patriots. The guy has literally been suspended 40+ games before he ever came to New England. The fact that the Patriots had a successful postseason run last year is not (nor should be) a factor in his suspension.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Flash Gordon have some demons but you have to admire how he takes care of his body. He's the closest thing to Megatron I have seen and I don't mean the Transformers Megatron.

He might be the most in-shape addict in the history of the world...and I mean that as a matter of-fact.

 

[patfanken]

Even though some of us have shredded Lazar in another thread he actually has some decent stats re: Josh/Tom




Patriots Don't Need Josh Gordon, But it Sure Would Be Nice | CLNS Media

Question. What would be the average completion rates for ANY QB on go routes. I would think it couldn't be much better than the 25%, Brady had with Gordon. It's a high risk route regardless.

On a quick glace the way the points are set up the difference between his success rate on a slant pass and the success rate on the 9 route is stark. But I am now wondering if that kind of completion rate isn't in line with other QB's in the league on that particular route. I have to think that stat could be gotten?

 

[LJRomanoff]

I keep freaking forgetting this guy is currently on our team. He has all the earmarks of a vet who will wash out ala Reggie Wayne or John Lynch.

Based on what?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Question. What would be the average completion rates for ANY QB on go routes. I would think it couldn't be much better than the 25%, Brady had with Gordon. It's a high risk route regardless.

On a quick glace the way the points are set up the difference between his success rate on a slant pass and the success rate on the 9 route is stark. But I am now wondering if that kind of completion rate isn't in line with other QB's in the league on that particular route. I have to think that stat could be gotten?

Some comp% catch % #s here.

Compared to some of the top WRs in 2017, 25% does seem not that great
2017 DVOA by Routes: Receivers | Football Outsiders