Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[IcyPatriot]

This thread has turned into a lot of this: garfield minus garfield for me as I've had to put so many crusading wackos on ignore.

Diatribe has become the norm in this thread ... started with a simple *.
I am still amazed that anyone could be so passionate over a *.
Would the same passion exist if it was Jim Irsay who became a snared perp?

 

[Ring 6]

Diatribe has become the norm in this thread ... started with a simple *.
I am still amazed that anyone could be so passionate over a *.
Would the same passion exist if it was Jim Irsay who became a snared perp?

The discussion in this thread isn’t really about kraft getting a * but about the legal/moral/political issues that arise from the arrest, investigation and prosecution and how they apply to other issue, rights and protections.

 

[Soliel]

Diatribe has become the norm in this thread ... started with a simple *.
I am still amazed that anyone could be so passionate over a *.
Would the same passion exist if it was Jim Irsay who became a snared perp?

I would be leading the angry mob in that scenario. Shouting incomprehensible tirades

 

[IcyPatriot]

The discussion in this thread isn’t really about kraft getting a * but about the legal/moral/political issues that arise from the arrest, investigation and prosecution and how they apply to other issue, rights and protections.

I get that Andy ...
But I also get that when one does something so irrationally dumb ...
It exposes that person to legal abuse ... and it happens too often in our legal system.
I just cannot find any sympathy for Kraft ...
Some law officials do abuse the law - because they know many will just plead out anyways.

 

[denverpatsfan]

Ok folks. Had an argument with my buddies wife about this issue tonight. Just to let you know if you havent figured it out already, the public in general consider this a human sex trafficking case. The police are allowed to do whatever they can do to shut it down. The Constitution is not considered. And the people who frequent these places are scum, no matter how much they have raised for charity or done for the common good. Just want to let you all know that arguing is of no use. Its human sex trafficking no matter what the truth is.

 

[Joker]

yeah..we already got to that point 200 pages ago...it's "human trafficking!!!" alright

 

[DarrylS]

Combination of both maybe but no question she had a tremendous amount of influence over him.

Loneliness in many older men is a huge force that dictates what we do... fortunately I am not alone, and can share my life with a beautiful woman, but if she is away for a while the loneliness sets in quickly and creates inordinate amounts of stress..

Mr. Kraft and I are almost the same age and that along with many friends we all seem to fear loneliness..

 

[DarrylS]

If the police can find criminals in that way I'm in favor of it.

Even if the constitution and its legal interpretation by the SCOTUS is violated???

The police found evidence of a crime early on in this case, but they chose to wait and film more and more.. not sure why if their intent and mission is to stop crime??

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Judge Hanser looks like s friggin' undertaker..this whole sordid mess seems like a Twilight Zone episode

dude looks like the crypt keeper from phantasm.

 

[maust]

yeah..we already got to that point 200 pages ago...it's "human trafficking!!!" alright

Just wait til they find out the lube was made by enslaved children in a sweatshop, from their own sweat.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Quite a few friends of mine have moved to Florida upon retiring. As a result, I have a number of standing invitations to visit and stay for a time. I have yet to take up any of the offers, in part, for the craziness of the politics. Second reason, I want no part of a very large state whose highest elevation is 345 feet.

Florida is G-d's waiting room..
My parents ( both now gone) moved there when they retired and my wife and I swore we would never do so...
Two stories exemplify the state.. Saw a movie listed in the newspaper and we took our then young children to see it. Unfortunately the movie had stopped playing about three weeks earlier. The manager of the theater, " we never got around to changing our ad." Second, dad got out of the hospital and I checked his meds. Pharmacy had filled it wrong giving him an 8 mg pill when he was prescribed 1 mg. Pharmacy's response when I called, " cut it in eighths." WTF. No azzhole, I'm coming back for the proper prescription.. Don't even get me started on the health care in Floriduh or the way they drive. They make Bostonians look like Indy car drivers....
And I won't wear a white belt year round or eat the early bird dinner at 4pm....

 

[1960Pats]

Even if the constitution and its legal interpretation by the SCOTUS is violated???

The police found evidence of a crime early on in this case, but they chose to wait and film more and more.. not sure why if their intent and mission is to stop crime??

I don't believe that any of those cases I mentioned were a violation of anyone's constitutional rights.

As to the case against Kraft, I haven't seen anything illegal yet. If the police obtained the warrant legally then I don't see what the problem is. Were they supposed to stop after the first man came through the door?

 

[Clonamery]

I don't believe that any of those cases I mentioned were a violation of anyone's constitutional rights.

As to the case against Kraft, I haven't seen anything illegal yet. If the police obtained the warrant legally then I don't see what the problem is. Were they supposed to stop after the first man came through the door?

Obviously, you’ve thought this through.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Ok folks. Had an argument with my buddies wife about this issue tonight. Just to let you know if you havent figured it out already, the public in general consider this a human sex trafficking case. The police are allowed to do whatever they can do to shut it down. The Constitution is not considered. And the people who frequent these places are scum, no matter how much they have raised for charity or done for the common good. Just want to let you all know that arguing is of no use. Its human sex trafficking no matter what the truth is.

I posted a while ago that there’s a certain element in our society today that will say the same thing over and over again until it becomes their truth...despite the fact it actually false.

Your friends wife appears to be one of these types. Too bad you didn’t ask her for evidence of human trafficking. These types are “ victim-centric” and view life in 2 groups; Victims and their oppressors

So does she view Kraft as an oppressor?

How liars create the ‘illusion of truth’

 

[PatriotsReign]

I don't believe that any of those cases I mentioned were a violation of anyone's constitutional rights.

As to the case against Kraft, I haven't seen anything illegal yet. If the police obtained the warrant legally then I don't see what the problem is. Were they supposed to stop after the first man came through the door?

If the warrant was obtained under false pretenses, then everyone’s rights were violated.

Including yours and mine.

Warrants have to be used for the exact purpose provided to a judge. There is not one iota of flexibility in that stated purpose

 

[1960Pats]

If the warrant was obtained under false pretenses, then everyone’s rights were violated.

Including yours and mine.

Warrants have to be used for the exact purpose provided to a judge. There is not one iota of flexibility in that stated purpose

It sounds like you're saying that a legally obtained warrant for one crime that results in the revelation of another crime is invalid. I'm not an expert on the law but I don't believe that's the case.

 

[PatriotsReign]

It sounds like you're saying that a legally obtained warrant for one crime that results in the revelation of another crime is invalid. I'm not an expert on the law but I don't believe that's the case.

I’m saying if the warrant was issued to uncover human trafficking, the video can’t be used for simple solicitation. And if it’s discovered there never was any basis to suspect human trafficking, then it’s all bogus

Let’s keep in mind that solicitation is a very minor offense

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think he's saying the cops knew they'd never get a warrant to include recording sex acts with prostitutes unless they exaggerated it in to human trafficking. It kind of appears that way because based on the cops press conference they described enslavement conditions that went on for weeks on end. It makes me question whether or not there was more aim to catch a high profile person than there was to rescue the helpless, exploited girls that they painted them to be. Instead they took their sweet time until they got their man. The whole thing smells to high heaven.....And yes they caught Kraft having sex with a prostitute.

 

[Brewskies]

The way I feel about this is: yes, Kraft had sex with a prostitute, period. Kraft had nothing to do with human trafficking. The wealthy will find a way to beat the rap or lessen the charge. Time to move on.

 

[venecol]

I think he's saying the cops knew they'd never get a warrant to include recording sex acts with prostitutes unless they exaggerated it in to human trafficking. It kind of appears that way because based on the cops press conference they described enslavement conditions that went on for weeks on end. It makes me question whether or not there was more aim to catch a high profile person than there was to rescue the helpless, exploited girls that they painted them to be. Instead they took their sweet time until they got their man. The whole thing smells to high heaven.....And yes they caught Kraft having sex with a prostitute.

But that is not the case. Neither the Martin County or the Jupiter warrant applications stated that they were for human trafficking. They were both specifically requested to investigate prostitution. Sure there may have been a hint of human trafficking claim in bringing in the DOH investigator's report, which apparently was exaggerated in both warrant applications by the cops.

Both warrant applications are almost identical in that through surveillance, trash inspections, stopping and interviewing johns leaving the spas, the police established there was prostitution going on. The problem is they just stopped their investigation and claimed they couldn't prove it without the cameras. This of course was a lie because in Palm Beach County just recently there was a similar prostitution bust without cameras.

This case is simply an overreach by the Martin County Sheriff who has an agenda, and the JPD, both using cameras to bust low level prostitution charges.

That is not the intent of this very intrusive method of investigation and simply not necessary. However, this has been used before in Florida, so it will be interesting to see how the Judge rules on the motion to suppress. This case is way bigger than Kraft or the other johns. This is now about our civil liberties vs Government action.